Your Personal History With God

[Mike]

However, I CANNOT agree that God chooses NOT to speak (especially when we come before Him)!

I'm not being argumentative. I trust you know that. How do you account for all the times the Psalmist cries out to God but does not hear Him? I've stated this a few times, but it doesn't seem like this is being addressed. (further comments below)

What's with the red flag?

Every psalm I read where David is feeling alone and far from God closes with the re-establishing that he is not alone and that God is His champion, who is always present.

Sorry about that. I misread your statement when I wrote that and thought you were saying we declare when God will Speak to us. That's a big difference from what you actually said about declaring that we get in the Word.

However... it is true that most often the Psalmist acknowledges his trust in God's Promise, but it doesn't necessarily say that God was Speaking to him. An example is Psalm 13 that I quoted in its entirety. He says that he trusts and rejoices in Him, but there isn't a mention of God coming to him in spite of his pleas. David was despondent and begged God to Speak to him, but it doesn't say He did. David could NOT prod God into doing something in his own time. He needed to wait on the Lord for His.

This isn't ever to say our Father leaves us or abandons us. He Promised He never would. He always Loves us! I look at the Psalms, and I'm seeing that God allows us to walk in the wilderness. Though He is at our side, He remains silent and gives us a period in which our faith is strengthened by trusting that He is Faithful during these times.

I will right out say that we cannot provoke Him if it is not His Will to Speak to us in a certain moment.

 

[Alabaster]

If we don't tell God we want to hear from Him, often we won't. Bill Johnson is saying, basically, that all we need to do is declare, "Lord, I want to hear from You, and I am going to devote time to you today to You and Your word, and I am going to wait on You until You speak to me."

He will. He loves our doggedness, determining to seek Him, not asking Him for answers, but just seeking a word from Him. He is always ready to oblige, having so much to say to us! Hearing ears are so very welcome to Him.

 

[Mike]

If we don't tell God we want to hear from Him, often we won't. Bill Johnson is saying, basically, that all we need to do is declare, "Lord, I want to hear from You, and I am going to devote time to you today to You and Your word, and I am going to wait on You until You speak to me."

He will. He loves our doggedness, determining to seek Him, not asking Him for answers, but just seeking a word from Him. He is always ready to oblige, having so much to say to us! Hearing ears are so very welcome to Him.

I hope you know me well enough to know I'm not arguing simply to argue. I just see something different than you do in scripture. You said David resolves the silence at the end of the Pslams, but I pointed out that Psalm 13 doesn't say he heard from God. Others don't, either. That was the only time you've acknowledged my Psalms examples, and you didn't use your post to show that God did.

I agree that He will Speak, but I feel it will be in His time; not always when we call out. You said if we don't tell God we want to hear from Him, we will. But David very clearly tells Him as much, and God waits.

 

[Alabaster]

I hope you know me well enough to know I'm not arguing simply to argue. I just see something different than you do in scripture. You said David resolves the silence at the end of the Pslams, but I pointed out that Psalm 13 doesn't say he heard from God. Others don't, either. That was the only time you've acknowledged my Psalms examples, and you didn't use your post to show that God did.

I agree that He will Speak, but I feel it will be in His time; not always when we call out. You said if we don't tell God we want to hear from Him, we will. But David very clearly tells Him as much, and God waits.

I know you are not arguing for the sake of argument, Mike. I know that isn't you. Bless you. Neither am I.

I simply disagree---I said if we do not tell God that we want to hear from Him, we often won't, and my own life and hundreds of others I know can attest to the fact that what Bill Johnson is preaching is the truth. When we contend with God, He will speak. I have never spent time with God with the purpose of waiting on His voice and never received it. If He is faithful with me, He will be faithful to speak to anyone who will wait on Him. God doesn't wait. We must.

For once someone offers a video with some real meat in it, and it still causes contention and reveals disbelief. I just shake my head, here.

 

[Christ_empowered]

I'm a baby Christian, but...I was taught to expect and cope with dry spells. Sometimes, no matter how relatively virtuous and moral your behavior and no matter how badly you want to hear from God, you just won't. That's what I was taught, anyway; that sometimes God "hides his face" (or seems to) and that we, as believers, should rely on the Word and fellow Christians all the time, but especially when God seems distant.

 

[reba]

I'm a baby Christian, but...I was taught to expect and cope with dry spells. Sometimes, no matter how relatively virtuous and moral your behavior and no matter how badly you want to hear from God, you just won't. That's what I was taught, anyway; that sometimes God "hides his face" (or seems to) and that we, as believers, should rely on the Word and fellow Christians all the time, but especially when God seems distant.

I agree life feels like that some times. and your right seek the godly

Psa 1:1 Blessed is the man that walketh not in the counsel of the ungodly, nor standeth in the way of sinners, nor sitteth in the seat of the scornful.


Heb 13:5 ... . for he hath said, I will never leave thee, nor forsake thee.

Pro 18:24 A man that hath friends must shew himself friendly: and there is a friend that sticketh closer than a brother.

Joh 15:13 Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends.

Rom 5:8 But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.

 

[Alabaster]

I'm a baby Christian, but...I was taught to expect and cope with dry spells. Sometimes, no matter how relatively virtuous and moral your behavior and no matter how badly you want to hear from God, you just won't. That's what I was taught, anyway; that sometimes God "hides his face" (or seems to) and that we, as believers, should rely on the Word and fellow Christians all the time, but especially when God seems distant.

Dry spells are caused by us. God may allow them, as wilderness experiences, but He is always there ready to speak! The question needs to be asked---do we really know His voice?

John 10:4 NLT
After he has gathered his own flock, he walks ahead of them, and they follow him because they know his voice.

John 10:27 NLT
My sheep listen to my voice; I know them, and they follow me.


I guarantee that if you mean business with God and are expecting to hear Him and tell Him so, all you have to do is open your Bible and He will speak. He is always there and always ready to speak when our ears are tuned to Him.

Hebrews 4:16a NLT
So let us come boldly to the throne of our gracious God.


We are talking about an intimate Father-Child relationship. He doesn't play games with us. He desires intimacy, and unless we are playing games with Him, He is to be found every time we need Him. He has made it easy for us in this generation--we have the written word of God---alive and supernatural!

 

[Mike]

I simply disagree---I said if we do not tell God that we want to hear from Him, we often won't, and my own life and hundreds of others I know can attest to the fact that what Bill Johnson is preaching is the truth. When we contend with God, He will speak. I have never spent time with God with the purpose of waiting on His voice and never received it. If He is faithful with me, He will be faithful to speak to anyone who will wait on Him. God doesn't wait. We must.

For once someone offers a video with some real meat in it, and it still causes contention and reveals disbelief. I just shake my head, here.

I'm not sure what you mean by your closing statement. I don't see disbelief in this thread. I see a difference of opinion that, thank You God, doesn't determine our salvation. And we will end up disagreeing. I don't doubt your testimony, but I hope you'll understand when I say I have got to put scripture ahead of anyone's personal experience. David sought, pleaded, begged God to Speak to him. David knew His Voice. David had a heart for the Lord. Virtually everything you say that we need to do to Hear Him whenever we desire, David did. God has a Purpose in everything He does, and in everything He does, He never leaves us.

No one in this thread has offered a plausible explanation for His silence throughout many of the Psalms. Few have even tried. I'm leaning on scripture, and if someone could effectively account for these passages, I'll listen.

I'm not taking cheap shots or making snide remarks toward you, A. I'm trying to take an honest look at scripture to guide me. I know you are too, but what you're using, to me, is not addressing Him Speaking whenever he is called upon.

 

[Alabaster]

We have one up on David...David did not have the indwelling Holy Spirit in him as we do. God speaks when we get into His word, and when we listen for Him.

 

[Bonairos]

I'm not being argumentative. I trust you know that. How do you account for all the times the Psalmist cries out to God but does not hear Him? I've stated this a few times, but it doesn't seem like this is being addressed. (further comments below)

You Mike? Never! HAHA

Here’s where we might be misconnecting. An earlier post stated (or at the very least, gave the impression) that there are times when God chooses NOT to speak (to His children). I begged to differ on such a “blanket statement†and refuted such a thought that the Lord would even choose not to speak to us when we come before Him.

I do agree that there are times when the Lord decides what the ‘conversation’ will be about, but to say He chooses not to not address or acknowledge us (not our specific ‘petitions’, but ‘us’, His purchased children) AT ALL while in fellowship, prayer, etc. is something that goes against the grain of my core beliefs. Especially when we have His written Word at our disposal.

Maybe this is also where we go in different directions; “to NOT address ‘my’ petition (IMO) does NOT equate with He choosing not to speak with me.†Hence my refutation of the blanket statement.

Instead of getting caught up on He not conversing about the agenda I bring up and then walk away believing, “He chose (in essence) to ignore meâ€, I simply look and listen for that which He chooses to speak with me about. Topic may be an issue, but communication is not.

Again, How could one even entertain the thought that the Lord (who gave of Himself to restore fellowship with us) will ignore (remain silent) when I approach Him with a sincere heart?! To hold such a belief would also mean I would be doing a disservice in counseling someone to spend time with God (if I believe He may choose not to speak at all).

So to say or imply that God may choose not speak, acknowledge, or communicate with His child at anytime is not only untrue, but propagating a lie.

As for David and the Psalms you referred to earlier. Keep in mind it was David, speaking from HIS viewpoint of the situation. In Psalm 13 David does question if God will forget him forever. But can one seriously conclude that God forgets about him? In Psalm 22, if we continue on in verse 21, the psalmist states, “You have answered me.â€

To lay an argument in Psalms that the Lord chooses not speak to His people, one could only look to Psalms 86:6,7 and 91:15 (amongst others) to say otherwise.

No one in this thread has offered a plausible explanation for His silence throughout many of the Psalms. Few have even tried. I'm leaning on scripture, and if someone could effectively account for these passages, I'll listen [/B]

The point is, God ALWAYS desires to communicate with us (why else the Cross?). The issue is if we are willing to let Him dictate the conversation or not.



As for Alabaster -

For once someone offers a video with some real meat in it, and it still causes contention and reveals disbelief. I just shake my head, here.

I feel you my sister. That is why my posts have become few in the community. I too find myself often shaking my head in bewilderment. Nonetheless we go forward!


Be blessed, Stay blessed!

 

[Mike]

As for David and the Psalms you referred to earlier. Keep in mind it was David, speaking from HIS viewpoint of the situation. In Psalm 13 David does question if God will forget him forever. But can one seriously conclude that God forgets about him?

Hey Bonairos. Thanks for your response. I just want to make it clear that I NEVER said He forgets about is or leaves us. In fact, I think I went out of my way to say as much. Of course He never does either of those things. And I wouldn't say it's a "blanket statement" of any kind to say that sometimes he chooses not to Speak to us. The word "sometimes" takes it out from under the blanket.

Yeah, I think we're going to disagree here. I read some of these Psalms, and they very clearly speak to a person who is not being answered. I'm especially uncomfortable when anything is suggested saying we have the ability to provoke God. But, you're still my brother! You can't disagree with that! :p

I still thought that was a fine sermon in the video, BTW! :yes

 

[Bonairos]

Yes, I agree to disagree on whether the Lord speaks to us or not.


Now back to the message.

There are some “nuggets†that Bill Johnson says that tend to jump out at me. Simple, yet deep and worth pondering.



Some things worth repeating (paraphrased) . . .


“God is the one that distributes gifts, distributes graces for life and ministry. It not so much according to our request as it is according to His designâ€

“History with God is made in the secret place where nobody is watchingâ€

“A lot of people weep and cry, but because there is no encounter with the Lord and no faith expressed in that environment, they leave the same as when they went inâ€

“Something is shaped in me when I am unwilling to pick up where I left off without His voice, without Him speaking to me.â€

“When crisis or tragedy strikes we go to people first and eventually get around to God when it should be the oppositeâ€

“Some have no personal history with God. There’s no private weeping before the Lord; There’s not that history of taking the Word and holding it before Him and say, God I’ve got to hear from you! And read page after page until finally He talks, and when He speaks, we meet at that place . . . “

“We can share our testimony, but we can’t share our history with Godâ€

"To have a resurrection, you have to have a death. You have to come in and die. There has to be that encounter where your agenda dies.â€

“The most intimate connection in our life is the fact that He talks; and He talks to usâ€

“A history with God is something you develop in your own time; where you get before God and hear Him speakâ€

“This is the call of the Lord on the people of God; develop a history where you meet with the Lord over His Word.â€

“You don’t have the right to take the Word and twist it to your own advantage. But read until the Spirit of God enlightens something in you that now, you not only have an answer to a problem, but you become an answer to a problem.â€

“If you will make history with God; He wil make history through you!â€



Be blessed, Stay blessed!

 

[Alabaster]

Yes, I agree to disagree on whether the Lord speaks to us or not.


Now back to the message.

There are some “nuggets†that Bill Johnson says that tend to jump out at me. Simple, yet deep and worth pondering.



Some things worth repeating (paraphrased) . . .


“God is the one that distributes gifts, distributes graces for life and ministry. It not so much according to our request as it is according to His designâ€

“History with God is made in the secret place where nobody is watchingâ€

“A lot of people weep and cry, but because there is no encounter with the Lord and no faith expressed in that environment, they leave the same as when they went inâ€

“Something is shaped in me when I am unwilling to pick up where I left off without His voice, without Him speaking to me.â€

“When crisis or tragedy strikes we go to people first and eventually get around to God when it should be the oppositeâ€

“Some have no personal history with God. There’s no private weeping before the Lord; There’s not that history of taking the Word and holding it before Him and say, God I’ve got to hear from you! And read page after page until finally He talks, and when He speaks, we meet at that place . . . “

“We can share our testimony, but we can’t share our history with Godâ€

"To have a resurrection, you have to have a death. You have to come in and die. There has to be that encounter where your agenda dies.â€

“The most intimate connection in our life is the fact that He talks; and He talks to usâ€

“A history with God is something you develop in your own time; where you get before God and hear Him speakâ€

“This is the call of the Lord on the people of God; develop a history where you meet with the Lord over His Word.â€

“You don’t have the right to take the Word and twist it to your own advantage. But read until the Spirit of God enlightens something in you that now, you not only have an answer to a problem, but you become an answer to a problem.â€

“If you will make history with God; He will make history through you!â€



Be blessed, Stay blessed!

Beautiful. I'm adding these to my file of Bill Johnson quotes! 3

 

[Bonairos]

Beautiful. I'm adding these to my file of Bill Johnson quotes! 3

Don't know if you are aware of it, but ibethel.tv has some messages for viewing. No cost to become a member on the site.


Be blessed, Stay blessed!

 

[Alabaster]

Don't know if you are aware of it, but ibethel.tv has some messages for viewing. No cost to become a member on the site.


Be blessed, Stay blessed!

Yes, I've visited the site--I need to bookmark it! Thanks!

My pastors have actually gone down to Bethel church to partake in a week of leadership meetings regarding freedom in Christ. It was tremendous. what a great church!