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savedbygrace57
Guest
God even loved Israel when she went whoring....glorydaz said:
[/quote:3qxtslrn]Hosea 3 said:
God only Loves His chosen..all others are abiding under His wrath, and will continue for all eternity..
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God only Loves His chosen..all others are abiding under His wrath, and will continue for all eternity..
francisdesales
Member
glorydaz said:
It is amazing to me how someone can get Christianity so backwards on such fundamental beliefs...
I believe a big part of this is that most do not consider that the Blessed Trinity is at the forefront of our faith. An understanding of God as Triune would help clear such matters up. For heaven's sake God IS love! How can He NOT love all of creation? God even loves man while in sin (Romans 5, that pesky chapter for those who believe Christ died only for a select few. (quite amazingly, Christ died only for those who preach this stuff...)
Regards
francisdesales
Member
savedbygrace57 said:
What does Romans 1 say is the wrath of God? Is it God hating people?
God loves everyone, even the wicked...
But if the wicked will turn from all his sins that he hath committed, and keep all my statutes, and do that which is lawful and right, he shall surely live, he shall not die. All his transgressions that he hath committed, they shall not be mentioned unto him: in his righteousness that he hath done he shall live. Have I any pleasure at all that the wicked should die? saith the Lord GOD: [and] not that he should return from his ways, and live? Ez 18:21-23
Why indeed does Jesus tell US to love our enemies, if God does not? Nonsense, plain ridiculous nonsense. This clearly comes from not knowing who God is. Those who know God know Him PRIMARILY as Love...
God loves all, and desires ALL men to be saved. You have done absolutely nothing to overturn that or to justify your addition to Scriptures...
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savedbygrace57
Guest
fran:
Yeah, the non elect..for Gods wrath has been appeased or propitiated in regards to His elect, Jesus christ drank of Gods wrath in behalf of the chosen..1 jn 2:2
And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.
God has no wrath for those whose sins have been propitiated for, that would be double jeopardy..
Yeah, the non elect..for Gods wrath has been appeased or propitiated in regards to His elect, Jesus christ drank of Gods wrath in behalf of the chosen..1 jn 2:2
And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.
God has no wrath for those whose sins have been propitiated for, that would be double jeopardy..
francisdesales
Member
savedbygrace57 said:
On behalf of all. Nothing about "chosen"...
I don't see anything about God's wrath = hate in Romans 1. I see God sadly leaving man to his own devices, since man refused God. That is what a spurned Lover does... God does not hate, He is Love.
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savedbygrace57
Guest
francisdesales said:
Yeah Gods wrath has been propitiated in behalf of all the elect, for christ drank all of Gods wrath for them.. God has no wrath left for them, the whole world of them..
But the non elect, they are now abiding under His wrath..
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savedbygrace57
Guest
Orion said:savedbygrace, . . . does it make sense for god to create MANY more "non-elect" that he knows would make him so angry and wrathful?
Whatever God does makes sense whether you think so or not..your thoughts and opinion does not mean anything to God.
savedbygrace57 said:Orion said:savedbygrace, . . . does it make sense for god to create MANY more "non-elect" that he knows would make him so angry and wrathful?
Whatever God does makes sense whether you think so or not..your thoughts and opinion does not mean anything to God.
And how do you, personally, know this to be true? In what way did you come to this understanding? Did god come to you, in person, and tell you this, . . . or is it your interpretation of what you believe the bible to say?
I still stand by what I said . . . the concept makes no sense. To purposefully create billions of people that you hate and want nothing to do with, except to punish, due to anger and wrath these created beings bring on, . . . . makes no sense.
francisdesales
Member
savedbygrace57 said:
Nothing about the topic, is it...
God desires all men to be saved. I am not talking about who actually WILL be saved...
We're in agreement on this one, brother. I, too, am amazed.francisdesales said:
It all boils down to not understanding the character of God.
There's almost an Arian Race mentality to it....that child isn't blond...throw him to the curb when he draws his first breath. :biglaugh
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savedbygrace57
Guest
franc says:
He desires all men of the elect to be saved..
He desires all men of the elect to be saved..
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savedbygrace57
Guest
mutzrein said:
Because He Loved only His own given to Him in the world Jn 13:
1Now before the feast of the passover, when Jesus knew that his hour was come that he should depart out of this world unto the Father, having loved his own which were in the world, he loved them unto the end.
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Rick W
Guest
How do we know what scripture cited is meant specifically for the disciples and other scripture is also meant for us?
I'm not adding opinion to this topic but rather pointing out how scripture is often cited one way or the other.
I'm not adding opinion to this topic but rather pointing out how scripture is often cited one way or the other.
Rick W said:How do we know what scripture cited is meant specifically for the disciples and other scripture is also meant for us?
I'm not adding opinion to this topic but rather pointing out how scripture is often cited one way or the other.
If you read the remainder of John 17 you would find the following:
"My prayer is not for them alone. I pray also for those who will believe in me through their message, that all of them may be one, Father, just as you are in me and I am in you. May they also be in us so that the world may believe that you have sent me.
God is not calling all people now. Carnal man has no freewill or choice to believe. If God does not first draw you quicken you you cannot believe. It is not a matter of God loving His whole creation, of course He does, it is a matter of timing.
God is not calling all people now.
"For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and TO ALL THAT ARE AFAR OFF, even as many as the Lord our God shall call." (Acts 2:39).
1 Corinthians 15:22-24
22For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.
23But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.
(order) Gk Strong’s NT:5001 tagma (tag'-mah); from NT:5021; something orderly in arrangement (a troop), i.e. (figuratively) a series or succession:
If God does not call you, you cannot come.
God is not calling all people now.
"For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and TO ALL THAT ARE AFAR OFF, even as many as the Lord our God shall call." (Acts 2:39).
1 Corinthians 15:22-24
22For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.
23But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.
(order) Gk Strong’s NT:5001 tagma (tag'-mah); from NT:5021; something orderly in arrangement (a troop), i.e. (figuratively) a series or succession:
If God does not call you, you cannot come.
glorydaz said:
Ya got that right!
Makes me wonder, If Benoni is saying that God isn't calling anyone now as he is saying in his postings (as if he's an exception and all of his carnal inclinations have been totally overcome), then does he think that he is called being one who is totally purified from every single one of his carnal inclincation and will never ever slip up again in his entire life again, or does he think he is not called because he still has struggles with carnality (being that he is still on this earth living in a "human" body? And, if he thinks he is not called then why does he even bother?
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