If God Loved everyone !

[glorydaz]

The very purpose of spreading the Gospel message is to call the unsaved.
It is by hearing the Word of God that the unsaved come to believe.

The church is without a mission if none are being called now.

What would you say the gospel is then?

It's pretty basic...It starts out with "God love you."

For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

All men sin, but God offers a free gift of eternal life to those who believe in the Lord Jesus Christ.

For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

He calls sinners to repent and believe.

But go ye and learn what that meaneth, I will have mercy, and not sacrifice: for I am not come to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.

 

[Snakeystew]

All men sin, but God offers a free gift of eternal life to those who believe in the Lord Jesus Christ

I would be tempted to argue that such statement reduces any value that might be found in 'sacrifice', (that isn't really a sacrifice in that nobody actually ceased to exist).

You and I went to a nightclub the other week, you remember? The bouncer told you that you couldn't go in because you were wearing trainers. I went up to the very same bouncer and he let me in even though I was also wearing trainers.

What does this tell us? Well, we don't know why I was let in but we do know - beyond any doubt whatsoever - that it has nothing to do with wearing trainers.

The fact is of course that you're as much a sinner as I, indeed probably more. You however get let in to the party regardless to that fact whereas I, purely because I happen to not have a belief in such entities, get set on fire. What we can say here is that we're unsure exactly why you got let in to the party but we do know it has nothing whatsoever to do with 'sin' or lack thereof.

What we should do is just completely set aside the notion of 'sin' having any relevance whatsoever to going to heaven or getting set on fire for all eternity. It is simply unarguable, (if rationality and logic is of any relevance), to claim otherwise.

So why do you go to heaven whilst someone like me gets set on fire for all eternity? Well, the answer is included in your post: I get set on fire because I don't believe that certain entities exist.

This of course is utter stupidity; Believing that something does or does not exist is completely beyond individual ability to choose - it is an inevitable outcome of being convinced or not being convinced of the truthfulness of available data.

As an example: You could not "choose" to believe in leprechauns - no matter how hard you squeezed. You could sit in front of the mirror all day long and squeeze yourself into a coma, nothing is ever going to change, (other than your position from 'alive' to 'dead' perhaps). You simply cannot possibly or plausibly 'choose' to believe that something exists without being convinced of its existence by external data.

In the case of Christians this data encompasses being convinced by kalam, teleological, ontological, moral, personal experience, indoctrination by parents or a combination of these factors. You are convinced by these arguments and hence have no choice but to believe that such entity exists. Should you however be convinced that all of these arguments are the pointless, (and ill-informed), waffle that they are, you wouldn't believe such entity exists - it is an inevitable fact.

So, you are convinced that a god exists and I am convinced that no god exists - be it Yahweh or Marduk, Allah or Jesus, Tiamat or Vishnu.

I am unsure exactly why, in your strange worldview, not being convinced that such entity exists - indeed being convinced of the opposite, somehow warrants eternal torture. If you could explain it to me I'd be very grateful indeed.

Yes - all the data my brain has received and processed might be flawed whereas yours might be spot on. This is a statement that being right deserves bliss whereas being wrong is a crime justly punishable by eternal torment. How is being wrong be a crime?

Regards,

 

[savedbygrace57]

glory:

The very purpose of spreading the Gospel message is to call the unsaved.

No its not, its to call the saved..the unsaved have no Saviour, and no hope, the design of the gospel for them is death unto death..

 

[glorydaz]

glory:

The very purpose of spreading the Gospel message is to call the unsaved.

No its not, its to call the saved..the unsaved have no Saviour, and no hope, the design of the gospel for them is death unto death..

Big news flash...we were all unsaved when we were called to repent.
Even you.

 

[savedbygrace57]

glory:

The very purpose of spreading the Gospel message is to call the unsaved.

No its not, its to call the saved..the unsaved have no Saviour, and no hope, the design of the gospel for them is death unto death..

Big news flash...we were all unsaved when we were called to repent.
Even you.

Maybe you are, but not Gods elect, for Jesus christ saved them with His blood..

 

[mutzrein]

The very purpose of spreading the Gospel message is to call the unsaved.
It is by hearing the Word of God that the unsaved come to believe.

The church is without a mission if none are being called now.

What would you say the gospel is then?

It's pretty basic...It starts out with "God love you."

For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

Alright, lets start with the first one. If God so loved the world . . . and desired all men to be saved, why did Jesus specifically say that he was NOT praying for the world?

 

[savedbygrace57]

Alright, lets start with the first one. If God so loved the world . . . and desired all men to be saved, why did Jesus specifically say that he was NOT praying for the world?

Because He Loves His own in the World Jn 13:

1Now before the feast of the passover, when Jesus knew that his hour was come that he should depart out of this world unto the Father, having loved his own which were in the world, he loved them unto the end

God has His own elect in the world..lk 18:7

And shall not God avenge his own elect, which cry day and night unto him, though he bear long with them?

 

[Benoni]

Good point if you are speaking about religion which has its place in God's plan, for Babaylon is a golden cup in the hands of the Lord. My mission as a believer is to know Him.

The very purpose of spreading the Gospel message is to call the unsaved.
It is by hearing the Word of God that the unsaved come to believe.

The church is without a mission if none are being called now.

 

[Benoni]

God what right based on what?

I did not say God is not calling anyone now, He is, I said He is not calling all people now. BIG difference. He just is not calling all people now, an I used scripture to back up my words.

"For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and TO ALL THAT ARE AFAR OFF, even as many as the Lord our God shall call." (Acts 2:39).

1 Corinthians 15:22-24

22For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.
23But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.

Sounds like a lot of confusion, my carnal inclinations you call it. If it is so carnal then how come I have two verses to back up my words, not like you who have but your opinion so far.

The very purpose of spreading the Gospel message is to call the unsaved.
It is by hearing the Word of God that the unsaved come to believe.

The church is without a mission if none are being called now.

Ya got that right!


Makes me wonder, If Benoni is saying that God isn't calling anyone now as he is saying in his postings (as if he's an exception and all of his carnal inclinations have been totally overcome), then does he think that he is called being one who is totally purified from every single one of his carnal inclincation and will never ever slip up again in his entire life again, or does he think he is not called because he still has struggles with carnality (being that he is still on this earth living in a "human" body? And, if he thinks he is not called then why does he even bother?


.

 

[Benoni]

There is no gospel or good news when billions will be tortured in an unending torture chamber and God is helpless to do anything about it.

If this is what you call the gospel it is a false gospel, a limited gospel. The unsaved cannot not come to God or hear God until God first calls them, they have no power in there carnal state to believe. You can spread your gospel to every person in the world and you have not and no one will hear a thing until God quickens them or draws them. No one has a freewill or choice.

The very purpose of spreading the Gospel message is to call the unsaved.
It is by hearing the Word of God that the unsaved come to believe.

quote]

 

[Benoni]

The Good News is simple. It is Jesus Christ who reversed the curse.

Romans 5:18-20 (Weymouth’s)
It follows then just as the result of a single transgression is a condemnation which to the whole race, so also is the result of a single degree of righteousness is a life giving acquittal which extends to the whole race. (

19) for as thought the disobedience of one individual the mass of mankind were constituted as sinners, so also though the obedience of one, the mass of mankind will be constituted righteous. Now law was brought in later on so that the transgression might increase, but sin increased, grace is overflowed.

1 Corinthians 15:22-24

22For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.
23But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.

NOW THAT is GOOD NEWS.

The very purpose of spreading the Gospel message is to call the unsaved.
It is by hearing the Word of God that the unsaved come to believe.

The church is without a mission if none are being called now.

What would you say the gospel is then?

 

[Benoni]

Your elect sound like a bunch of lazy self centered religious with no mission. Yes God has an elect but they have a purpose.

Alright, lets start with the first one. If God so loved the world . . . and desired all men to be saved, why did Jesus specifically say that he was NOT praying for the world?

Because He Loves His own in the World Jn 13:

1Now before the feast of the passover, when Jesus knew that his hour was come that he should depart out of this world unto the Father, having loved his own which were in the world, he loved them unto the end

God has His own elect in the world..lk 18:7

And shall not God avenge his own elect, which cry day and night unto him, though he bear long with them?

 

[glorydaz]

There is no gospel or good news when billions will be tortured in an unending torture chamber and God is helpless to do anything about it.

If this is what you call the gospel it is a false gospel, a limited gospel. The unsaved cannot not come to God or hear God until God first calls them, they have no power in there carnal state to believe. You can spread your gospel to every person in the world and you have not and no one will hear a thing until God quickens them or draws them. No one has a freewill or choice.

The very purpose of spreading the Gospel message is to call the unsaved.
It is by hearing the Word of God that the unsaved come to believe.

And how do you know billions will be tortured? Does the Word of God say that?
Is it because some claim that only certain chosen ones will be saved?

I'd say you've been listening to the many doctrines of men rather than trusting in what the Word of God tells us. If I listened to those who expound on the Word, I'd think only a few were loved by God...and only those who obey all the commandments will be saved by God...and even those who are saved can be lost when they mess up. I thank the Lord I haven't fallen for that "wisdom" of men. People twist the Scripture on a regular basis...it's worse than a shame, it's dishonoring to our Creator.

There is a way for all men to be saved. Firstly, God gave us a desire to know Him. Then He gave us a conscience to know good from evil. He gives men proofs of His love whether they know Him or not...he sends blessings like rain on the just and unjust alike. Even before Jesus came, man answered the call of God that is written in their hearts. It's called faith. We look around at the wonders of nature, at a newborn baby, at the love we have for our family and friends. Man has always known the difference between right and wrong. It's God-given....

Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them. For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:

God looks at the heart...

When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory: And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats: And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left. Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world: For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in: Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me. Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, and fed thee? or thirsty, and gave thee drink? When saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and clothed thee? Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee? And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me. Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels: For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not. Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee? Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me. And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.

Regardless of the doctrine of men....God gave His son for all sins of all mankind.
Sin no longer separates man from God. Sin and death were defeated at the cross.
The only thing man has to do is believe in God. The only unforgiveable sin is unbelief.
Before Christ came, man came by faith in God and were saved.
After the cross, man comes by faith and is saved.
All men who believe in their Creator are saved by the blood Christ shed on the cross.
I'll never be one to limit the atonement to a select few, as I don't see that in the Word.
In fact, I often think of the scripture about "just Lot". Now what did Lot ever really do to be saved?
The claim that God only draws some men is a lie. God calls all men to repent and come to Him.
People like to twist this verse to say God only draws some....

No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

They even go so far as to say ALL doesn't mean ALL men. It's a lie.

And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me.

I say...stop believing the lies put forth by man, and believe the Word of God.
The reason you don't believe in the Gospel is because you don't hear the Gospel being preached anymore...you hear lies.
And called....He calls all men...multitudes...all the people...over and over and commands them to repent. It's a lie to claim otherwise.

And he called the multitude, and said unto them, Hear, and understand:

And here we see the the called, the chosen, those given, the elect...."Everyone which seeth the Son and believeth on Him" will be raised up to everlasting life. It's a lie to claim those are only certain ones. Whosoever.....we have the True Gospel at odds with the doctrine of men. I choose the Word of God...not the words of men.

And Jesus said unto them, I am the bread of life: he that cometh to me shall never hunger; and he that believeth on me shall never thirst. But I said unto you, That ye also have seen me, and believe not. All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out. For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me. And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day. And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

 

[Benoni]

glorydaz wrote:The very purpose of spreading the Gospel message is to call the unsaved.
It is by hearing the Word of God that the unsaved come to believe.

You can spread the gospel message all you want to, no one can hear it. You are speaking of the lost here, carnal earthy men who are dead in trespasses an sin and have no freewill or choice to hear God until God first quickens them. It is not there timing. Or order.
Have you ever seen a dead man hear anything? Carnal dead men are spiritually dead.

The only thing I really have a problem with what you are saying is the word “believe†. Men cannot believe in there carnal state until God’s spirit quickens them.

God is calling His elect, but for a purpose to that is for the remainder of all man kind.

 

[glorydaz]

glorydaz wrote:The very purpose of spreading the Gospel message is to call the unsaved.
It is by hearing the Word of God that the unsaved come to believe.

You can spread the gospel message all you want to, no one can hear it. You are speaking of the lost here, carnal earthy men who are dead in trespasses an sin and have no freewill or choice to hear God until God first quickens them. It is not there timing. Or order.
Have you ever seen a dead man hear anything? Carnal dead men are spiritually dead.

The only thing I really have a problem with what you are saying is the word “believe†. Men cannot believe in there carnal state until God’s spirit quickens them.

God is calling His elect, but for a purpose to that is for the remainder of all man kind.

Now that's a pretty odd way of thinking. We were all spiritually dead before we were saved.
Where has this spritual elitism come from?????????????
You seem to be denying the power of the Gospel....actually, you are flat-out denying the power of the Gospel. I have to admit, I've never heard such a notion.
We're called to believe and repent....why bother to call men to believe and repent?

For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men,

The grace of God is given to man while in we were dead in our sins.

And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins; Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience: Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others. But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us, Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved;) And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:

We're called to preach the Gospel as faith comes by hearing the Word of God.

But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias saith, Lord, who hath believed our report? So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God. But I say, Have they not heard? Yes verily, their sound went into all the earth, and their words unto the ends of the world.

"Every man" is given a measure of faith, and grace is given as we hear the Word and repent of our sins.

For I say, through the grace given unto me, to every man that is among you, not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think; but to think soberly, according as God hath dealt to every man the measure of faith.

True, some will harden their necks and not believe....that is their choice.

Notwithstanding they would not hear, but hardened their necks, like to the neck of their fathers, that did not believe in the LORD their God.

Some will come....

Whosoever cometh to me, and heareth my sayings, and doeth them, I will shew you to whom he is like:

Some will not come....

And whosoever will not receive you, when ye go out of that city, shake off the very dust from your feet for a testimony against them.

The free gift of grace is given to ALL MEN.

Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.

Oops...here that pesky "every man" again.
I'm not sure how you can ignore so much of the Bible to come up with this odd theory of yours.

But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.

These are truly the last days..... :crazy :crazy :crazy :crazy :crazy :crazy

 

[mutzrein]

Men cannot believe in there carnal state until God’s spirit quickens them.

Correct!

 

[glorydaz]

You can spread the gospel message all you want to, no one can hear it. You are speaking of the lost here, carnal earthy men who are dead in trespasses an sin and have no freewill or choice to hear God until God first quickens them. It is not there timing. Or order.
Have you ever seen a dead man hear anything? Carnal dead men are spiritually dead.

I'm sorry, but I just can't get over this....preaching the gospel is for naught. :crazy
Don't bother! (someone should have told Jesus about this.)

The Gospel is the "power of God unto salvation", and we're not to bother preaching it???????
"Woe is unto me if I preach not the gospel"....

We even see the gospel being preached to the dead...hmmm...

1 Thessalonians 1:5 - For our gospel came not unto you in word only, but also in power, and in the Holy Ghost, and in much assurance; as ye know what manner of men we were among you for your sake.

Colossians 1:23 - If ye continue in the faith grounded and settled, and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel, which ye have heard, and which was preached to every creature which is under heaven; whereof I Paul am made a minister;

1 Peter 4:6 - For for this cause was the gospel preached also to them that are dead, that they might be judged according to men in the flesh, but live according to God in the spirit.

Acts 15:7 - And when there had been much disputing, Peter rose up, and said unto them, Men and brethren, ye know how that a good while ago God made choice among us, that the Gentiles by my mouth should hear the word of the gospel, and believe.

Matthew 9:35 - And Jesus went about all the cities and villages, teaching in their synagogues, and preaching the gospel of the kingdom, and healing every sickness and every disease among the people.

Matthew 24:14 - And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.

Romans 1:16 - For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.

Romans 10:15 - And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things!

1 Corinthians 9:16 - For though I preach the gospel, I have nothing to glory of: for necessity is laid upon me; yea, woe is unto me, if I preach not the gospel!

Galatians 1:6 - I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel:

Galatians 3:8 - And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed.

Ephesians 1:13 - In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,

Ephesians 6:19 - And for me, that utterance may be given unto me, that I may open my mouth boldly, to make known the mystery of the gospel,

Mark 1:14,15 - Now after that John was put in prison, Jesus came into Galilee, preaching the gospel of the kingdom of God, And saying, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel.

 

[Relic]

.

glorydaz, I agree with you

I do NOT agree with Universalist who think even the devil himself will be saved. :crazy


.

Men cannot believe in there carnal state until God’s spirit quickens them.

Correct!

Read my sig....

 

[glorydaz]

Men cannot believe in there carnal state until God’s spirit quickens them.

Correct!

Darn straight...no sense preaching that pesky old Gospel then, is there?

It does make one wonder why we're called to believe.

Even the Lord sounds perplexed. He should have checked with you all and then He'd know.

He was thinking He just had to show them a few signs and that might do the trick.
He must be just a little embarrassed.

And the LORD said unto Moses, How long will this people provoke me? and how long will it be ere they believe me, for all the signs which I have shewed among them?

 

[Benoni]

Now that's a pretty odd way of thinking. We were all spiritually dead before we were saved.
Where has this spritual elitism come from?????????????
You seem to be denying the power of the Gospel....actually, you are flat-out denying the power of the Gospel. I have to admit, I've never heard such a notion.
We're called to believe and repent....why bother to call men to believe and repent?

When Adam died he did not die physically. What do you think naked means spiritually speaking? God’s Word is a spiritual Word, the letter killeth.

It is not spiritual elitism it is scripture. No way am I deny the power of the Gospel, sure I deny man’s gospel, men have no power to save. All ultimately will be saved for the blood of Jesus is far greater then the sin of Adam.

If we are not quickened we cannot believe. It is not your place to call men. It is God. Sure God uses people, but you have no power.

What so odd about it. Salvation is by God’s grace not by human will. Really look at the world around us, how many are being called. How many people in a city like Buffalo NY know Jesus? How many factory workers are Catholic, how many Pimps, prostitutes or you name come to God by their own freewill. Take it a bit further, go to Kuwait, or Afghanistan; how many have a freewill or even understanding on who Jesus is?