Bible Study Faith in Christ

[for_his_glory]

Faith of Christ

Romans 3:22 Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:

Galatians 2:16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

Philippians 3:9 And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith

Ephesians 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: 9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

The faith of Christ, (KJV - John 12:44-50; Galatians 2:16; Philippians 3:9), is where we find faith in Christ. The newer translations has changed where it says faith of Christ to faith in Christ. There is a difference between faith of Christ and faith in Christ as you can read in those scriptures out of the KJV. The faith of Christ is what He believed in the Father as He never said or did anything above that which God gave Him to speak or to do while He was on earth . Our faith in Christ is the same faith of Christ He had in the Father as we can never go above that of what He taught us and the works He left for us to follow in.

The Son of God is that free gift of God's grace given to all who will believe by faith in Christ and confess Him as Lord and Savior so they will see the kingdom of God, John 3:5-7; Romans 10:9, 10. There is no working towards something that is free as all we have to do is accept the gift. Believe is a verb that means something we consider to be true as we have heard the Gospel and not only heard it, but also believe what is written for our well being.

Faith works come after we are Spiritually born again and indwelled with the Holy Spirit that empowers us to go out into the world and continue in the good works of the Lord, Acts 2:37, 38; James 2:14-20. The good works are taking His Gospel message to the world as we too are His disciples and to love and help those in need as what we do we do unto the glory of the Lord Christ Jesus, Matthew 25:31-40.

 

[Ernest T. Bass]

There is no working towards something that is free as all we have to do is accept the gift.

Hebrews 11:7
the saving of Noah's house was free gift but it required work (building the ark) in order to receive that free gift.

 

[for_his_glory]

Hebrews 11:7
the saving of Noah's house was free gift but it required work (building the ark) in order to receive that free gift.

Noah didn't have to work for grace as he had already found grace in the eyes of the Lord by having faith in God, Genesis 6:8. God spared Noah and his family from the flood by instructing him to build the ark and preserve two and seven of all the different animals and fowls of the air as God established His covenant through Noah as God destroyed all wickedness of man by flooding the earth. Genesis 6-10

 

[Ernest T. Bass]

Noah didn't have to work for grace as he had already found grace in the eyes of the Lord by having faith in God, Genesis 6:8. God spared Noah and his family from the flood by instructing him to build the ark and preserve two and seven of all the different animals and fowls of the air as God established His covenant through Noah as God destroyed all wickedness of man by flooding the earth. Genesis 6-10

--Noah found grace in the eyes of the Lord because he was obedient to the Lord "Noah was a righteous man, and perfect in his generations: Noah walked with God." Genesis 6:8-9.

--being in God's grace is a life long process and is conditional. As long as one conditonally obeys God they will remain in God's grace. Disobey God and one will not longer be in God's grace. Therefore Christans are told to be 'faithful unto death' Revelation 2:10

Had Noah then disobeyed God and not built the ark, he would not have received the gracious free gift of his house being saved for he would no longer continue in God's grace. He would have been lost , drowned with that wicked and unrighteous generation. Therefore receiving the gracious free gift of the salvation of his house REQUIRED he do the obedient work in building the ark. Since the saving of his house was a free gift offered to him, then in no way could his obedient work be earning the free gift. The most he could do was choose to either accept the free gift by doing the work in building the ark or reject the offer of the free gift and do nothing, not build the ark.

But in now way would his house been saved had he disobeyed God and not built the ark.

 

[for_his_glory]

I don't see that building the ark as a required work of a free gift, but that a new covenant through Noah would then be established through him and his seed. It's about being obedient to God's instruction, not a required work of something that was already given freely. God had explained to Noah what the purpose of the ark was for and how to build it as Noah, by faith, believed in what God told him.

Hebrews 11:7 By faith Noah, being warned of God of things not seen as yet, moved with fear, prepared an ark to the saving of his house; by the which he condemned the world, and became heir of the righteousness which is by faith.

 

[Ernest T. Bass]

I don't see that building the ark as a required work of a free gift, but that a new covenant through Noah would then be established through him and his seed. It's about being obedient to God's instruction, not a required work of something that was already given freely. God had explained to Noah what the purpose of the ark was for and how to build it as Noah, by faith, believed in what God told him.

Hebrews 11:7 By faith Noah, being warned of God of things not seen as yet, moved with fear, prepared an ark to the saving of his house; by the which he condemned the world, and became heir of the righteousness which is by faith.

Noah's house would not have been saved had he not built the ark. God commanded (required) Noah build the ark "to the saving of his house". (God did not command Noah to build the ark 'because' his house was already saved from a flood that had not happened.) Therefore the purpose of building the ark was salvation of his house. The saving of Noah's house was a CONDITIONAL free gift that CONDITIONALLY required building the ark in order to receive the free gift. Meeting conditions placed upon free gifts do not earn the free gift.

 

[for_his_glory]

Noah's house would not have been saved had he not built the ark. God commanded (required) Noah build the ark "to the saving of his house". (God did not command Noah to build the ark 'because' his house was already saved from a flood that had not happened.) Therefore the purpose of building the ark was salvation of his house. The saving of Noah's house was a CONDITIONAL free gift that CONDITIONALLY required building the ark in order to receive the free gift. Meeting conditions placed upon free gifts do not earn the free gift.

What you are not seeing is that Noah was already Spiritually saved receiving the free gift of God's grace as God had already found favor in in before the flood, Ephesians 2:8.

Building the ark had nothing to do with God's saving grace as he already had that, but that God made a renewed covenant through him for all generations to come after destroying all the wicked with a flood. The ark is a symbol of all things being made new again as in regeneration as it was commanded by God that Noah should build it for God's purpose.

 

[Ernest T. Bass]

What you are not seeing is that Noah was already Spiritually saved receiving the free gift of God's grace as God had already found favor in in before the flood, Ephesians 2:8.

Building the ark had nothing to do with God's saving grace as he already had that, but that God made a renewed covenant through him for all generations to come after destroying all the wicked with a flood. The ark is a symbol of all things being made new again as in regeneration as it was commanded by God that Noah should build it for God's purpose.

Being saved is CONDITIONAL upon man's continued obedience to God's will. Therefore Noah's house would would have been saved only IF Noah built the ark. There is no way Noah's house would have still been saved anyway had he rebelled and disobeyed God in not building the ark. Not building the ark would have been unrighteousness on the part of Noah. Therefore the salvation of Noah's house was not in anyway UNconditional regardless what Noah did.

What we can learn from Noah is;
--God's grace, when it comes to salvation, has always been conditional in both the OT and NT
--God has made obedience to His will a condition to receiving His grace therefore obedience does not earn grace.
--out of many, many examples from both the OT and NT of people being obedient to God's will, nowhere ever is obedience said to earn God's grace but instead is a CONDITION God Himself requires to receive His grace.
--this does not fit Luther's 'faith only' but that does not matter since Christ never taught salvation by faith only.

In my opinion this is one of, if not the most, important topics that could be discussed/debated on a religious forum as this one.

 

[for_his_glory]

We all know that grace is a free gift of God to all who have faith in Him and it was by that faith that Noah had that he found favor in the Lord among all others who turned from God, Genesis 6:5-8. God puts no conditions upon us, but to love Him and love others and to be obedient to His commandments as we live a moral life while here on earth being God's will for everyone.

Noah and his house were only saved from the flood by that of God's instructions to build the ark and collect every species of animals in order to make a new beginning with the covenant God made with Noah. Noah never questioned this, but was obedient to God's command to build the ark as he trusted and had faith in God for His purpose.

God's grace is unmerited favor freely given to all who will accept this free gift, even though we do not deserve it. No one can earn grace as none of us are worthy of God's grace. The only condition that comes with the free gift of grace is that we must remain in it by being obedient to God and His commands and statures. We were all sinners saved by the grace of God through the covenant God made with faithful Noah.

When we read Hebrews chapter 11 each verse starts out with "By faith". Nothing has changed between the OT and NT other then a better covenant of love through Christ Jesus.

 

[daninthelionsden]

I think you two are talking about the same elephant only from two different perspectives. Two jewels of wisdom sown into the same tapestry.

 

[for_his_glory]

I think you two are talking about the same elephant only from two different perspectives. Two jewels of wisdom sown into the same tapestry.

I think you may be right as I am reading through some of this.

 

[for_his_glory]

Ernest T. Bass I think I might have misunderstood your post #2 as saying we had to work for the free gift of grace. Hopefully now I understand you meaning after receiving God's grace we must maintain it through obedience to God's commands.

 

[Ernest T. Bass]

Ernest T. Bass I think I might have misunderstood your post #2 as saying we had to work for the free gift of grace. Hopefully now I understand you meaning after receiving God's grace we must maintain it through obedience to God's commands.

You did not misunderstand. God's free gift of grace must be worked for in order to receive it but the work does not earn the free gift.

Again, God's free gift of salvation is conditional therefore one must work to meet the conditions God has placed upon His free gift. Just as Noah worked to build the ark which was the necessary condition God required whereby his house would be saved. Yet Noah's obedient work in building the ark did not earn the free gift of the salvation of his house.

John 6:27 ASV "Work not for the food which perisheth, but for the food which abideth unto eternal life, which the Son of man shall give unto you: for him the Father, even God, hath sealed."

Here Jesus says to work for eternal life which He 'gives'. Jesus is said in this verse to "give" eternal life so it is a free gift Christ gives.

Since eternal life is a free gift Christ freely gives, then why did Jesus say to "work" for it?


If eternal life were an unconditional free gift then everyone would be unconditionally saved, none lost.

But since eternal life is a CONDITIONAL free gift and one must work to meet the condition in order to receive this free gift. In this context of John 6:27-29 "believing" is the conditional work one must do in order to be given eternal life by Christ. Therefore the work done in meeting the condition does not earn the free gift of eternal life.

There is no example in the NT of Jesus giving eternal life UNconditionally. The conditions of believing, (John 3:16) repentance (Luke 13:3) confession (Matthew 10:32-33) baptism (Mark 16:16) all must first be met before Jesus gives His free gift of eternal life.

Jesus offers the free gift of eternal life to everyone and since it is free there is nothing we can do to earn it. Therefore all we can do is choose to either accept or reject this free gift. If one does not want it then simply do nothing and he will not receive this free gift for failing to meet the necessary conditions. Yet if one desires to accept this free gift, then one must work to meet the necessary conditions Christ has place upon it. Therefore working to meet the conditions does not in anyway earn what has already been offered to us for free.

--Noah's obedient work in building the ark was the necessary condition in receiving the free gift of the saving of his house.

--Israel's obedient work in marching around the walls was the necessary condition in receiving the free gift of Jericho.

--Naaman's obedient work in dipping in the river 7 times was the necessary condition of receiving the free gift of healing of his disease.

--Jesus spat on the ground creating a potion to put in the blind man's eye's then told the man to go wash his eyes. The obedient work in going and washing his eyes was the necessary condition to receive the free gift of sight.

These are just a few examples from the Bible of men working to meet the necessary condition in order to receive a free gift yet the work in no way earned the free gift.

 

[for_his_glory]

I am specifically talking about God's grace as being free as we freely receive it in the beginning not even knowing what God's commands are. All those other verses you just gave are that of faith in obedience in the continuance of God's grace after receiving it that we apply His promises to our life here on earth as we begin to walk in obedience to His commands and statures.

Ephesians 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: 9 Not of works, lest any man should boast. 10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

No one has ever worked in order to receive God's free gift of grace. Through faith we are created in Christ, Colossians 3:1-4, to do good works by God who began a good work in us, Philippians 1:6, that we are ordained to be obedient to God's commands after receiving God's free gift of grace as we walk in them with the greatest being love.

It's the grace of God unto our salvation through Christ Jesus who secures our eternal salvation from sin to all who will believe that Jesus is the Son of God and will endure until the end when Christ returns, John 3:16; Matthew 24:13. We will be saved when Christ returns as long as we endure all trials and tribulations here on earth as our salvation is then secured in Christ for eternity. Until that time we are to walk in obedience to God's commands and work our our own salvation, Philippians 2:12-16.

 

[GodsGrace]

You did not misunderstand. God's free gift of grace must be worked for in order to receive it but the work does not earn the free gift.

Again, God's free gift of salvation is conditional therefore one must work to meet the conditions God has placed upon His free gift. Just as Noah worked to build the ark which was the necessary condition God required whereby his house would be saved. Yet Noah's obedient work in building the ark did not earn the free gift of the salvation of his house.

John 6:27 ASV "Work not for the food which perisheth, but for the food which abideth unto eternal life, which the Son of man shall give unto you: for him the Father, even God, hath sealed."

Here Jesus says to work for eternal life which He 'gives'. Jesus is said in this verse to "give" eternal life so it is a free gift Christ gives.

Since eternal life is a free gift Christ freely gives, then why did Jesus say to "work" for it?


If eternal life were an unconditional free gift then everyone would be unconditionally saved, none lost.

But since eternal life is a CONDITIONAL free gift and one must work to meet the condition in order to receive this free gift. In this context of John 6:27-29 "believing" is the conditional work one must do in order to be given eternal life by Christ. Therefore the work done in meeting the condition does not earn the free gift of eternal life.

There is no example in the NT of Jesus giving eternal life UNconditionally. The conditions of believing, (John 3:16) repentance (Luke 13:3) confession (Matthew 10:32-33) baptism (Mark 16:16) all must first be met before Jesus gives His free gift of eternal life.

Jesus offers the free gift of eternal life to everyone and since it is free there is nothing we can do to earn it. Therefore all we can do is choose to either accept or reject this free gift. If one does not want it then simply do nothing and he will not receive this free gift for failing to meet the necessary conditions. Yet if one desires to accept this free gift, then one must work to meet the necessary conditions Christ has place upon it. Therefore working to meet the conditions does not in anyway earn what has already been offered to us for free.

--Noah's obedient work in building the ark was the necessary condition in receiving the free gift of the saving of his house.

--Israel's obedient work in marching around the walls was the necessary condition in receiving the free gift of Jericho.

--Naaman's obedient work in dipping in the river 7 times was the necessary condition of receiving the free gift of healing of his disease.

--Jesus spat on the ground creating a potion to put in the blind man's eye's then told the man to go wash his eyes. The obedient work in going and washing his eyes was the necessary condition to receive the free gift of sight.

These are just a few examples from the Bible of men working to meet the necessary condition in order to receive a free gift yet the work in no way earned the free gift.

I do believe I agree with you...
but when would this work begin?

 

[Ernest T. Bass]

I am specifically talking about God's grace as being free as we freely receive it in the beginning not even knowing what God's commands are. All those other verses you just gave are that of faith in obedience in the continuance of God's grace after receiving it that we apply His promises to our life here on earth as we begin to walk in obedience to His commands and statures.

There is no NT verse or example in the NT of anyone receiving grace unconditionally before they obey.

In each of the examples I gave, the work in meeting the condition came before reception of the free gift. Naaman was not healed first then obediently went and dipped. The blind man did not first see then obeyed by going and washing his eyes.

Ephesians 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: 9 Not of works, lest any man should boast. 10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

No one has ever worked in order to receive God's free gift of grace. Through faith we are created in Christ, Colossians 3:1-4, to do good works by God who began a good work in us, Philippians 1:6, that we are ordained to be obedient to God's commands after receiving God's free gift of grace as we walk in them with the greatest being love.

The "not of works" refers to works of merit and does not refer to obedience to the will of God. Again, there is not a verse or example that speaks of one receiving the free gift of grace without first conditionally obeying God's will.

God does not first unconditionally give His grace to men at random then those men obey.

Again, in each of the Bible examples I gave, obedience in building of the ark, obedience in dipping in the river, obedience in marching around the city walls, obedience in washing the eyes, obedience in the work of believing all came BEFORE reception of the free gift offered.

It's the grace of God unto our salvation through Christ Jesus who secures our eternal salvation from sin to all who will believe that Jesus is the Son of God and will endure until the end when Christ returns, John 3:16; Matthew 24:13. We will be saved when Christ returns as long as we endure all trials and tribulations here on earth as our salvation is then secured in Christ for eternity. Until that time we are to walk in obedience to God's commands and work our our own salvation, Philippians 2:12-16.

You made "believe" a condition to being saved. Therefore the work of believing does not earn one's salvation but is just a necessary condition that first has to be met before receiving grace.

One must 'work out his salvation' yet this work does not earn salvation but a necessary condition to have and maintain the promise of eternal life.

So there are obedient works in order to initially receive eternal life (belief, repentance, confession and baptism) and obedient works to remain in God's saving grace (good works, faithful unto death - Ephesian 2:10; Revelation 2:10).

All of these obedient works are just necessary conditions God has put upon HIs free gift of grace and do not earn it in anyway.

 

[Ernest T. Bass]

I do believe I agree with you...
but when would this work begin?

When one believes. Belief itself is a work (John 6:27-29) and belief includes repentance, confession and baptism.

It is very common that free gifts come with conditions attached. Once a local restaurant offered free ice cream one day, they did not owe anyone a free ice cream cone they offered it as a free gift out their good grace we might say.

You have two options concerning the offer of the free gift:
--sit and do nothing and you will not get the free ice cream.
--go to the restaurant and place an order for the free ice cream and enjoy it.

Going to the restaurant and placing the order are necessary conditions that must FIRST be met BEFORE getting a free ice cream cone. Going to the restaurant and placing the order are also works that you do but these works in no way takes away from the "freeness" of the ice cream.

 

[GodsGrace]

When one believes. Belief itself is a work (John 6:27-29) and belief includes repentance, confession and baptism.

It is very common that free gifts come with conditions attached. Once a local restaurant offered free ice cream one day, they did not owe anyone a free ice cream cone they offered it as a free gift out their good grace we might say.

You have two options concerning the offer of the free gift:
--sit and do nothing and you will not get the free ice cream.
--go to the restaurant and place an order for the free ice cream and enjoy it.

Going to the restaurant and placing the order are necessary conditions that must FIRST be met BEFORE getting a free ice cream cone. Going to the restaurant and placing the order are also works that you do but these works in no way takes away from the "freeness" of the ice cream.

I agree but I believe you're reading John 6:27-29 differently than what may be meant.
Verse 28 is asking what they must do to satisfy God...
Verse 29 says to believe in the One whom God has sent.

Is this how you understand verse 28?

I don't understand how you think believing could be a work....
faith is free...THEN come the good deeds.
We just have to believe.

 

[GodsGrace]

There is no NT verse or example in the NT of anyone receiving grace unconditionally before they obey.

In each of the examples I gave, the work in meeting the condition came before reception of the free gift. Naaman was not healed first then obediently went and dipped. The blind man did not first see then obeyed by going and washing his eyes.



The "not of works" refers to works of merit and does not refer to obedience to the will of God. Again, there is not a verse or example that speaks of one receiving the free gift of grace without first conditionally obeying God's will.

God does not first unconditionally give His grace to men at random then those men obey.

Again, in each of the Bible examples I gave, obedience in building of the ark, obedience in dipping in the river, obedience in marching around the city walls, obedience in washing the eyes, obedience in the work of believing all came BEFORE reception of the free gift offered.



You made "believe" a condition to being saved. Therefore the work of believing does not earn one's salvation but is just a necessary condition that first has to be met before receiving grace.

One must 'work out his salvation' yet this work does not earn salvation but a necessary condition to have and maintain the promise of eternal life.

So there are obedient works in order to initially receive eternal life (belief, repentance, confession and baptism) and obedient works to remain in God's saving grace (good works, faithful unto death - Ephesian 2:10; Revelation 2:10).

All of these obedient works are just necessary conditions God has put upon HIs free gift of grace and do not earn it in anyway.

I just saw this.

Thinking on it.

 

[GodsGrace]

When one believes. Belief itself is a work (John 6:27-29) and belief includes repentance, confession and baptism.

It is very common that free gifts come with conditions attached. Once a local restaurant offered free ice cream one day, they did not owe anyone a free ice cream cone they offered it as a free gift out their good grace we might say.

You have two options concerning the offer of the free gift:
--sit and do nothing and you will not get the free ice cream.
--go to the restaurant and place an order for the free ice cream and enjoy it.

Going to the restaurant and placing the order are necessary conditions that must FIRST be met BEFORE getting a free ice cream cone. Going to the restaurant and placing the order are also works that you do but these works in no way takes away from the "freeness" of the ice cream.

I have always believed that obeying and doing comes after we believe.
To DO before we believe is a work and is not accepted because there is no faith.
Doing good deeds is what is expected of us after we believe.

Jesus said REPENT FOR THE KINGDOM OF GOD IS AT HAND.
Is repenting a work?