Bible Study Faith in Christ

[Ernest T. Bass]

Condition is different than doing the works of the Lord as in Matthew 25:31-40.

Condition, not being a work, to faith in Christ is love. The works are "feed my sheep". John 21:15-17.

The condition of God's grace is His love for His creation, God's work of grace was giving His only begotten Son Christ Jesus that whosoever believes (condition of faith) in Him will have eternal life.

Ephesians 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: 9 Not of works, lest any man should boast. 10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

We are first created (Spiritually renewed) in Christ through faith/belief alone, not of works. We are God's artistry fashioned unto good works ordered by God that we then begin to walk in them after receiving His free gift of faith in Christ.

"Not of works" refers to works of merit not obedience to the Lord's will.

 

[PeterJens]

Man is capable of understanding God's word and obeying. Throughout the BIble God has given commands to men, the command implies man's has both ability and responsibility to God's commands. Why give commands if man is not capable of obeying them?

(I do not believe in the idea of "total depravity).

Without communion with God, I do not believe we understand Gods word and commands.

Do you love me? Do you know me?
You cannot love what you do not know.


What God commanded through Moses is less than what Jesus commanded us to follow, because through Jesus we are capable of so much more.

If you look at christian communities and how well they manage to follow Gods ways, there is a fundamental issue in the long term to know Gods will and obey His commands. It is one of the most troubling issues in christian faith, which convinced many to abandon trying to obey, to merely admitting we are saved in Christ as we are without any progression or change required or expected.

I accept the problems of existence put stress on our ability to live a life of love, and our focus as sinners is on ourselves and our benefits only. But I have optimism that in Christ we can walk in the ways of Jesus. God bless you

 

[Ernest T. Bass]

Without communion with God, I do not believe we understand Gods word and commands.

Do you love me? Do you know me?
You cannot love what you do not know.


What God commanded through Moses is less than what Jesus commanded us to follow, because through Jesus we are capable of so much more.

If you look at christian communities and how well they manage to follow Gods ways, there is a fundamental issue in the long term to know Gods will and obey His commands. It is one of the most troubling issues in christian faith, which convinced many to abandon trying to obey, to merely admitting we are saved in Christ as we are without any progression or change required or expected.

I accept the problems of existence put stress on our ability to live a life of love, and our focus as sinners is on ourselves and our benefits only. But I have optimism that in Christ we can walk in the ways of Jesus. God bless you

I do not know what you mean by "communion with God" but the NT has examples of men being taught God's word and understanding what was being said. Some chose to believe and obey what they heard while others hated and rejected it.

You posted to me "If you look at christian communities and how well they manage to follow Gods ways,...."

I do not see that at all. All I see are hundreds....thousands of religious groups that all contradict each other over doctrine with most all the contradictions being mutually exclusive type contradictions

 

[PeterJens]

I do not know what you mean by "communion with God" but the NT has examples of men being taught God's word and understanding what was being said. Some chose to believe and obey what they heard while others hated and rejected it.

You posted to me "If you look at christian communities and how well they manage to follow Gods ways,...."

I do not see that at all. All I see are hundreds....thousands of religious groups that all contradict each other over doctrine with most all the contradictions being mutually exclusive type contradictions

What I see is Gods people following love and shinning as lights in difficult situations.
Now the doctrines vary, and heated discussions happen, but love shines through.

To become a believer we are indwelt by the Holy Spirit. As Paul says without the Spirit we cannot be believers. That is communion with God, a new relationship of reality with the Living God. It is the mark of Gods work in our hearts. God bless you

 

[for_his_glory]

Even though faith is a work it does not earn the free gift, it is just meeting the necessary condition.

Why do you not believe what the scriptures say about faith. Please show me in scripture where it states faith is a work. Faith is the substance of things hope for as the substance is Christ Jesus in who we believe in by hearing the word of God.

Hebrews 11:1 Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.

John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

Ephesians 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
Ephesians 2:9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.
Ephesians 2:10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

Rom 4:16 Therefore it is of faith, that it might be by grace; to the end the promise might be sure to all the seed; not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham; who is the father of us all,

Rom 10:8 But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach;
Rom 10:9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
Rom 10:10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
Rom 10:11 For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.

2 Timothy 1:9 Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,
2 Timothy 1:10 But is now made manifest by the appearing of our Saviour Jesus Christ, who hath abolished death, and hath brought life and immortality to light through the gospel:

 

[for_his_glory]

James clearly says that works justify. And faith alone, that is, faith without works is dead.

What kind of work is James talking about that justifies?

James 2;21 " Was not Abraham our father justified by works, (what work?) when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?

The type of work that justifies is obedience to the will of God. Paul spoke of "obedience UNTO righteousness" and NOT obedience because one is already righteous.

Some have accused Paul and James of contradicting each other, but they do not.

James ------works (obedience)>>>>>>>>>justifies
Paul------obeyed from the heart>>>>>>>justified (free from sin)

Both are 100% agreement obedience to God's will justifies.

When Paul says works do not justify he is talking about the flawless work of law keeping required by the OT law.

Works follow after faith as you have to believe in Christ first and accept Him as Lord and Savior as He is God's grace to the world. Then comes works as in the continued works of the Lord as in Matthew 25:31-40 that we are to walk in. Faith is our answer to God's calling and drawing us into Him. Works are that of obedience to God, but by faith first as in the first two words of each verse in Hebrews 11.

James 2:14 What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?
James 2:15 If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food,
James 2:16 And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit?
James 2:17 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.
James 2:18 Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.

 

[for_his_glory]

"Not of works" refers to works of merit not obedience to the Lord's will.

How can one know the will of God and be obedient to it when they barely know God when they first come to Him by faith. I first accepted Jesus as Lord and Savior through faith in believing He is the Son of God, but knew nothing of the works of Christ that we are to continue in by faith.

Faith first then comes works. Faith alone is Christ Jesus and our belief in Him at first until we learn what God's will is and to be obedient to it by faith.

 

[for_his_glory]

What I see is Gods people following love and shinning as lights in difficult situations.
Now the doctrines vary, and heated discussions happen, but love shines through.

To become a believer we are indwelt by the Holy Spirit. As Paul says without the Spirit we cannot be believers. That is communion with God, a new relationship of reality with the Living God. It is the mark of Gods work in our hearts. God bless you

We try our best to remain in God's will which is in the unity of His Spirit through the greatest commandment of love. When we love others as our self then that is the works of the Lord as we let the light of Christ shine through us that others will see Christ in us.

No matter the various doctrines, the indifference's by how we allow ourselves to be taught there is only one God, one Faith (Christ Jesus) and one Spirit (Holy Spirit). One doctrine given to Christ as God gave Him a commandment, what He should say, and what He should speak. Our obedience is to stay within the full context of those teachings without the various influences of mans doctrines.

Do we always get it right, no, but we also need to be opened for correction from those who have more Spiritual knowledge than we do and to also test the spirits that are teaching us.

1 John 2:27 But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.

 

[PeterJens]

We try our best to remain in God's will which is in the unity of His Spirit through the greatest commandment of love. When we love others as our self then that is the works of the Lord as we let the light of Christ shine through us that others will see Christ in us.

No matter the various doctrines, the indifference's by how we allow ourselves to be taught there is only one God, one Faith (Christ Jesus) and one Spirit (Holy Spirit). One doctrine given to Christ as God gave Him a commandment, what He should say, and what He should speak. Our obedience is to stay within the full context of those teachings without the various influences of mans doctrines.

Do we always get it right, no, but we also need to be opened for correction from those who have more Spiritual knowledge than we do and to also test the spirits that are teaching us.

1 John 2:27 But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.

Working across denominations it becomes clear what is loving God and what is something else.

In every congregation you have both, those who walk with Jesus and those who do not. So many theories, everyone wants to be a prophet...

If I learnt anything it's difficult to see the light when Jesus shines so brightly..... God bless you

 

[Ernest T. Bass]

Why do you not believe what the scriptures say about faith. Please show me in scripture where it states faith is a work. Faith is the substance of things hope for as the substance is Christ Jesus in who we believe in by hearing the word of God.

Hebrews 11:1 Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.

John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

Ephesians 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
Ephesians 2:9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.
Ephesians 2:10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

Rom 4:16 Therefore it is of faith, that it might be by grace; to the end the promise might be sure to all the seed; not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham; who is the father of us all,

Rom 10:8 But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach;
Rom 10:9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
Rom 10:10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
Rom 10:11 For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.

2 Timothy 1:9 Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,
2 Timothy 1:10 But is now made manifest by the appearing of our Saviour Jesus Christ, who hath abolished death, and hath brought life and immortality to light through the gospel:

Romans 5:1----------faith>>>>>>>>>>justifies
James 2:24----------works>>>>>>>>>justify

Since there is but one way to be saved/justified, no alternative, then faith must be a work.

Mark 2:5 says Jesus saw their faith. What Jesus saw that is called faith is the work those men did in removing the roof and lowering the sick man down to Him. (Jonah 3:10 repentance being a work that can be seen.)

John 6:27-29 Jesus told the people to WORK for the meat that endures unto everlasting life and belief is the work Jesus gave them.

2 Thessalonians 1:11 speaks about "work of faith"

Romans 16:26 Paul wrote about "obedience of faith". John 3:36 ASV " He that believeth on the Son hath eternal life; but he that obeyeth not the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God abideth on him." "Believeth" is set in contrast to "obeyeth not" meaning the believing is obedience.

Again, Acts 14;1-2 ASV " And it came to pass in Iconium that they entered together into the synagogue of the Jews, and so spake that a great multitude both of Jews and of Greeks believed. But the Jews that were disobedient stirred up the souls of the Gentiles, and made them evil affected against the brethren. " "Believed" is set in contrast to "disobedience" meaning believing is obedience.

Acts 2:41 " They then that received his word were baptized: ..."
Acts 2:44 " And all that believed were together,..."
In some verses as above "believed" is used as a synecdoche (part for the whole) where believed includes obedience in being baptized.

Again, Acts 16:33-34 ASV "And he took them the same hour of the night, and washed their stripes; and was baptized, he and all his, immediately. And he brought them up into his house, and set food before them, and rejoiced greatly, with all his house, having believed in God." The phrase "having believed" of v34 includes all the jailer had just done including his repentance (washing stripes) and being baptized. John 12:42 "believing" includes confession.

Galatians 5:6 a faith that avails is a faith working through love. (1 Thessalonians 1:3)

James 2:21-22 NKJV " Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered Isaac his son on the altar? Do you see that faith was working together with his works, and by works faith was made perfect? And the Scripture was fulfilled which says, “Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.” And he was called the friend of God. "
--faith is made perfect by works. Faith without works is lacking, dead.
--Abraham's faith AND works makes one a 'friend of God' where does the idea come from that faith lacking works makes one a friend of God?

Grammarians:
Liddell and Scott: verb pisteuo (believe) can mean “to comply” (1869, 1273).

Thayer pisteuo - "the conviction and trust to which a man is impelled by a certain inner and higher prerogative and law of his soul"......." used especially of the faith by which a man embraces Jesus, i. e. a conviction, full of joyful trust, that Jesus is the Messiah — the divinely appointed author of eternal salvation in the kingdom of God, conjoined with obedience to Christ:"


Hence the Bible ties faith to works so closely that faith is a work.

 

[Ernest T. Bass]

Works follow after faith as you have to believe in Christ first and accept Him as Lord and Savior as He is God's grace to the world. Then comes works as in the continued works of the Lord as in Matthew 25:31-40 that we are to walk in. Faith is our answer to God's calling and drawing us into Him. Works are that of obedience to God, but by faith first as in the first two words of each verse in Hebrews 11.

James 2:14 What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?
James 2:15 If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food,
James 2:16 And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit?
James 2:17 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.
James 2:18 Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.

Obedient works come BEFORE salvation:

-Acts 10:35 those that work righteousness are the one accepted with God
-1 John 3:10 those that continue not doing righteousness continue to not be of God
-Romans 6:17-18 order of events:
1) servants of unrighteousness
2) obeyed from the heart
3) then freed from sin, servants of righteousness.

 

[Ernest T. Bass]

What I see is Gods people following love and shinning as lights in difficult situations.
Now the doctrines vary, and heated discussions happen, but love shines through.

To become a believer we are indwelt by the Holy Spirit. As Paul says without the Spirit we cannot be believers. That is communion with God, a new relationship of reality with the Living God. It is the mark of Gods work in our hearts. God bless you

Doctrines cannot vary among groups yet all groups be right. John 17:17 God's word is truth and truth never contradicts itself as all these groups do. The BIble speaks of one body/church and one faith Ephesians 4:4-5

I know of no verse that teaches one must first be "indwelt by the Holy Spirit" before one can believe.

 

[Ernest T. Bass]

How can one know the will of God and be obedient to it when they barely know God when they first come to Him by faith. I first accepted Jesus as Lord and Savior through faith in believing He is the Son of God, but knew nothing of the works of Christ that we are to continue in by faith.

Faith first then comes works. Faith alone is Christ Jesus and our belief in Him at first until we learn what God's will is and to be obedient to it by faith.

No verse says faith alone saves. James says faith alone does not justify. In the NT when people asked what they must do to be saved no one was old to "do nothing" or told to 'have faith alone" but were told to be obedient to God's will. Therefore NT faith requires one know what the will of God is and do it:

Matthew 7:21 the ones that enter the kingdom are the ones that doeth the will of the Father.
Luke 6:46 Jesus is Lord of those that do His will

 

[PeterJens]

Doctrines cannot vary among groups yet all groups be right. John 17:17 God's word is truth and truth never contradicts itself as all these groups do. The BIble speaks of one body/church and one faith Ephesians 4:4-5

I know of no verse that teaches one must first be "indwelt by the Holy Spirit" before one can believe.

9 You, however, are controlled not by the sinful nature but by the Spirit, if the Spirit of God lives in you. And if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Christ.
Rom 8:9

We come to Christ because we are born again from on high. Jesus's attitude to Peter was this

16 Simon Peter answered, "You are the Christ, the Son of the living God."
17 Jesus replied, "Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah, for this was not revealed to you by man, but by my Father in heaven"
Matt 16:16-17

Put these two things together with this

25 Those who oppose him he must gently instruct, in the hope that God will grant them repentance leading them to a knowledge of the truth,
2 Tim 2:25

18 When they heard this, they had no further objections and praised God, saying, "So then, God has granted even the Gentiles repentance unto life."
Acts 11:18

No man comes to God except by His moving and His will.

 

[Ernest T. Bass]

9 You, however, are controlled not by the sinful nature but by the Spirit, if the Spirit of God lives in you. And if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Christ.
Rom 8:9

We come to Christ because we are born again from on high. Jesus's attitude to Peter was this

16 Simon Peter answered, "You are the Christ, the Son of the living God."
17 Jesus replied, "Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah, for this was not revealed to you by man, but by my Father in heaven"
Matt 16:16-17

Put these two things together with this

25 Those who oppose him he must gently instruct, in the hope that God will grant them repentance leading them to a knowledge of the truth,
2 Tim 2:25

18 When they heard this, they had no further objections and praised God, saying, "So then, God has granted even the Gentiles repentance unto life."
Acts 11:18

---None of the verses cited above says one must have a literal indwelling of the Holy Spirit before one can believe/understand.

No man comes to God except by His moving and His will.

--men can come to God by freely choosing to come to God. God alone does not determine which men can or cannot come to Him. Jesus has an open invitation to all men to come unto Him, Matthew 11:28-29; John 7:37. The fault, failure and responsibility is upon the man who does not come to God and not upon God.

 

[for_his_glory]

No verse says faith alone saves. James says faith alone does not justify. In the NT when people asked what they must do to be saved no one was old to "do nothing" or told to 'have faith alone" but were told to be obedient to God's will. Therefore NT faith requires one know what the will of God is and do it:

Matthew 7:21 the ones that enter the kingdom are the ones that doeth the will of the Father.
Luke 6:46 Jesus is Lord of those that do His will

So, do you reject Ephesians 2:8,9 as it is clearly written we are saved by faith alone and not of works. Do you believe in a work based salvation?

What if a person accepts Jesus as their Lord and Savior by faith, but yet has no good works started and then gets hit by a car and dies that same day, does this mean they will not be accepted into the Kingdom of God because they have no good works to show their faith?


Romans 5:1 Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ:

James 2:24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only. 25 Likewise also was not Rahab the harlot justified by works, when she had received the messengers, and had sent them out another way? 26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.

By works James appears to to include both acts of charity and righteousness according to the laws of the Spirit, Romans 8:2, as opposed to the Mosaic laws. James is not saying that a person is saved by works and not by faith, but that genuine faith will produce good deeds, however, only faith in Christ saves us as long as we endure until He returns.

Hebrews 11:1 Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen. Faith is simply a belief as in hope for

We are justified by faith first within our belief in Christ Jesus. By faith we come to know the Lord and learn that of what we are to be obedient in and the works we are to continue in as to being obedient to God's commands. No one who first comes to Christ by faith just jumps into good works until they know what they are.

Work in accordance to the will of God is that which accomplishes that of faith.

 

[for_his_glory]

In the NT when people asked what they must do to be saved no one was old to "do nothing" or told to 'have faith alone" but were told to be obedient to God's will. Therefore NT faith requires one know what the will of God is and do it:

Act 16:27 And the keeper of the prison awaking out of his sleep, and seeing the prison doors open, he drew out his sword, and would have killed himself, supposing that the prisoners had been fled.
Act 16:28 But Paul cried with a loud voice, saying, Do thyself no harm: for we are all here.
Act 16:29 Then he called for a light, and sprang in, and came trembling, and fell down before Paul and Silas,
Act 16:30 And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved?
Act 16:31 And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.

How can one know God's will when they first answer His call to salvation through Christ Jesus. By faith in believing Jesus is the Son of God.

John 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. 6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. 7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.

John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. 17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved. 18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

Being Spiritually born again from above is not an act of our charity and righteousness, which are the work part after faith, as all we have to do is believe.

 

[jerry63935]

You did not misunderstand. God's free gift of grace must be worked for in order to receive it but the work does not earn the free gift.

no GRACE === God riches at Christ expense grace has many functions i was spared from death in about 3 wreck all 3 could have killed me. i was lost a heathen a rebel But God in his mercy gave me Grace favor from death .he gave me another Chance . there is no works in grace . works follows salvation the night i got saved i stepped out by FAITH at the altar all i said was God save me . so on this part your wrong . saved by grace through faith NOT OF WORKS unless man would boat

 

[jerry63935]

So, do you reject Ephesians 2:8,9 as it is clearly written we are saved by faith alone and not of works

BINGO 9 Not of works, lest any man should boast. put works in the plan of salvation and it nulls the finish works of the Cross

 

[for_his_glory]

Working across denominations it becomes clear what is loving God and what is something else.

In every congregation you have both, those who walk with Jesus and those who do not. So many theories, everyone wants to be a prophet...

If I learnt anything it's difficult to see the light when Jesus shines so brightly..... God bless you

The love of God has nothing to do with denominations/non-denominations nor any religion for that matter. God is about us having a loving personal relationship with His Son Christ Jesus first and foremost as we come to Him by faith as we believe in who He says He is.

James 1:22 But be ye doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves.
James 1:23 For if any be a hearer of the word, and not a doer, he is like unto a man beholding his natural face in a glass:
James 1:24 For he beholdeth himself, and goeth his way, and straightway forgetteth what manner of man he was.
James 1:25 But whoso looketh into the perfect law of liberty, and continueth therein, he being not a forgetful hearer, but a doer of the work, this man shall be blessed in his deed.
James 1:26 If any man among you seem to be religious, and bridleth not his tongue, but deceiveth his own heart, this man's religion is vain.
James 1:27 Pure religion and undefiled before God and the Father is this, To visit the fatherless and widows in their affliction, and to keep himself unspotted from the world.