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Bible Study Faith without works

ezra

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so true - and the works that follow salvation are by the power of God working inside us to help us do what we could not do on our own

a divine collaboration - God gives gifts abilities new heart etc - and we humbly accept all of it and do all things through Christ who lives in us - Philippians 4:13 - Philippians 2:13 - Colossians 1:29
with knowing this why on earth do folks sweat bout losing salvation ? the liberal Church says come as you are no need to clean up... the legalistic Church says you better change before coming here...the true Church says come as you are let Christ do it
John 8

10 When Jesus had lifted up himself, and saw none but the woman, he said unto her, Woman, where are those thine accusers? hath no man condemned thee?

11 She said, No man, Lord. And Jesus said unto her, Neither do I condemn thee: go, and sin no more.
 

Truthfrees

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No one is saved by doing enough works.

On the other hand, the way we are saved is by obeying the Gospel.

JLB
by believing in the One God sent - which you can say is obeying the Gospel -

it's just simpler and better to say the exact words Jesus said - to help make sure people don't get confused about what obeying the gospel means
 

JLB

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true - but that does not give us the right to take credit for anything - especially being saved

Of course not.

Jesus did the work from God for His life and was crucified for our sins.


Jesus obeyed His Father.


God is glorified when His children obey him.


According to the scriptures it takes at least three persons to get someone saved.


Did you ever consider that?


  1. God who sends someone to preach the Gospel.
  2. Someone to respond in obedience to the Gospel.
  3. The person who hears the Gospel to obey it.



JLB
 

Truthfrees

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with knowing this why on earth do folks sweat bout losing salvation ? the liberal Church says come as you are no need to clean up... the legalistic Church says you better change before coming here...the true Church says come as you are let Christ do it
John 8

10 When Jesus had lifted up himself, and saw none but the woman, he said unto her, Woman, where are those thine accusers? hath no man condemned thee?

11 She said, No man, Lord. And Jesus said unto her, Neither do I condemn thee: go, and sin no more.
amen - the 2 extremes and then the simple truth

not sure why people want to go into either ditch - just stay in the middle with God - Galatians 5:25
 

Truthfrees

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Of course not.

Jesus did the work from God for His life and was crucified for our sins.

Jesus obeyed His Father.

God is glorified when His children obey him.

According to the scriptures it takes at least three persons to get someone saved.

Did you ever consider that?

  1. God who sends someone to preach the Gospel.
  2. Someone to respond in obedience to the Gospel.
  3. The person who hears the Gospel to obey it.
JLB
true but still it is best to not give anyone the impression with our words that anyone other than God gets any credit

i would also add that those who pray for people to see Jesus for who He is and for people to get saved would have a part in your list of those who plant and water
 

chessman

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wondering, this is how it works with some people sometimes.

Jesus provides the answer:
]Jesus answered and said to them, “This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He sent.” John 6:29
and by the end of the post it becomes:

This is man’s work.
When your motivations drive your ‘interpretation’, it’s called eisegesis.

Eisegesis (/ˌaɪsɪˈdʒiːsɪs/) is the process of interpreting a text or portion of text in such a way that the process introduces one's own presuppositions, agendas, or biases into and onto the text. ...​

When you simply interpret what the Text actually says, it’s called exegesis of the Text.

Definition: To interpret a text by way of a thorough analysis of its content. When you do exegesis, you are an exegete who is exegeting the text.​
 

JLB

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by believing in the One God sent - which you can say is obeying the Gospel -

it's just simpler and better to say the exact words Jesus said - to help make sure people don't get confused about what obeying the gospel means
I think there is much confusion today in the Church, about what it means to believe the Gospel.


But what does it say? “The word is near you, in your mouth and in your heart” (that is, the word of faith which we preach): that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation...
But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Isaiah says, “Lord, who has believed our report?” So then faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God. Romans 10:8-10,16,17


If we only believe in our heart, yet not confess with our mouth Jesus as Lord, then our believing is dead and can not save.


  • For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation


JLB
 

Truthfrees

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JLB

calling it a work of man rather than calling it a work of God that man responds to/accepts/believes/etc is opening the door for people to start taking credit that does not belong to people
 

JLB

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i would also add that those who pray for people

I would too, which is why I said “at least” three.


Very insightful of you.


Most don’t understand this.




JLB
 

Truthfrees

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I think there is much confusion today in the Church, about what it means to believe the Gospel.


But what does it say? “The word is near you, in your mouth and in your heart” (that is, the word of faith which we preach): that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation...
But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Isaiah says, “Lord, who has believed our report?” So then faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God. Romans 10:8-10,16,17


If we only believe in our heart, yet not confess with our mouth Jesus as Lord, then our believing is dead and can not save.


  • For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation


JLB
i agree - but scripture is so potent - inherent with God's power - Colossians 1:6 - if we just say the scripture as written it is powerfully clear - and will work powerfully on the person -

when we start saying it is a work of man we complicate a simple and powerful message
 

JLB

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wondering, this is how it works with some people sometimes.

Jesus provides the answer:


and by the end of the post it becomes:



When your motivations drive your ‘interpretation’, it’s called eisegesis.

Eisegesis (/ˌaɪsɪˈdʒiːsɪs/) is the process of interpreting a text or portion of text in such a way that the process introduces one's own presuppositions, agendas, or biases into and onto the text. ...​

When you simply interpret what the Text actually says, it’s called exegesis of the Text.

Definition: To interpret a text by way of a thorough analysis of its content. When you do exegesis, you are an exegete who is exegeting the text.​

Since the actual context and actual words of scripture drive the interpretation it’s called exegesis.


Again here is both the question and answer from the Lord.

Their question -

Then they said to Him, “What shall we do, that we may work the works of God?”


His answer -

Jesus answered and said to them, “This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He sent.”


Does Jesus say God will believe or you believe?




JLB
 

JLB

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i agree - but scripture is so potent - inherent with God's power - Colossians 1:6 - if we just say the scripture as written it is powerfully clear - and will work powerfully on the person -

when we start saying it is a work of man we complicate a simple and powerful message

Romans 10 is not referring to scripture.


The work of God for man is to believe/obey Him.


This is how faith operates.


It does not operate any other way.


Without faith it is impossible to please God.




JLB
 

Truthfrees

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I need some rest time after dinner.
Be back later. I'm not moving on to John 6:29 till we get 6:28 straight.

IF you are calvinistic in theology, then just say so and the conversation is over.
i had a conversation with a calvinist

i believe that God does the work and we accept or reject this work for ourselves

this calvinist insisted i was a synergist - in his mind there was only monogist and synergist - he could not conceive of someone who is neither
 
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JLB

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JLB

calling it a work of man rather than calling it a work of God that man responds to/accepts/believes/etc is opening the door for people to start taking credit that does not belong to people

Where did I say anything other than man responding to God in obedience?




JLB
 

Truthfrees

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Romans 10 is not referring to scripture.


The work of God for man is to believe/obey Him.


This is how faith operates.


It does not operate any other way.


Without faith it is impossible to please God.




JLB
the work of God for man to do?

man does the work of God?

this concept is too confusing

why can't you just say God does the work and man can use his faith/words/actions to respond / accept or reject the work of God?

what is wrong with saying it this way?

it will eliminate a lot of confusing semantic battles
 

JLB

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JLB

calling it a work of man rather than calling it a work of God that man responds to/accepts/believes/etc is opening the door for people to start taking credit that does not belong to people

People need to hear a balanced truth about what God wants from us during our lifetime on earth as a believer.


Otherwise they will hear these words from Him on that Day -


“Then He will also say to those on the left hand, Depart from Me, you cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels: for I was hungry and you gave Me no food; I was thirsty and you gave Me no drink; I was a stranger and you did not take Me in, naked and you did not clothe Me, sick and in prison and you did not visit Me.’
“Then they also will answer Him, saying, ‘Lord, when did we see You hungry or thirsty or a stranger or naked or sick or in prison, and did not minister to You?’ Then He will answer them, saying, ‘Assuredly, I say to you, inasmuch as you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to Me.’ And these will go away into everlasting punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.” Matthew 25:41-46


  • for I was hungry and you gave Me no food;
  • I was thirsty and you gave Me no drink;
  • I was a stranger and you did not take Me in,
  • naked and you did not clothe Me,
  • sick and in prison and you did not visit Me.’

These folks believed the lie that God does everything and they need to do nothing.





JLB
 

JLB

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why can't you just say God does the work and man can use his faith/words/actions to respond / accept or reject the work of God?

The work we have from God to do is believe.


He tells us what to do, and we do it.


This is called the obedience of faith.


It’s all through the Bible.


By faith Noah, being divinely warned of things not yet seen, moved with godly fear, prepared an ark for the saving of his household, by which he condemned the world and became heir of the righteousness which is according to faith.
Hebrews 11:7



Noah heard God and responded with godly fear, and built the Ark.


Noah did His part: He obeyed.



Who saved Noah’s family?


  • prepared an ark for the saving of his household


God have him wisdom, knowledge and understanding, as well as grace, to do what He has never done, for 120 years Noah worked to build the Ark.


Then it came time to round up the animals!!!!
:thud




JLB
 

Truthfrees

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i bet that was interesting
i was asking him questions trying to understand tulip freewill predestination etc

i really didn't get anywhere - the concepts the guy was sharing were too confusing so i had to give up

to this day i still don't understand the calvinist version of tulip - and after talking with you privately i have decided that it is best if i don't try any longer - thanks for all the wisdom you shared with me regarding all the questions i asked you - you helped me more than anyone else has on this matter - it helped me to lay it to rest - God bless you
 

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