Bible Study Faith without works

[JLB]

In Jesus' and Paul's time if you were to confess belief in Jesus, then you were hunted down, murdered or put in jail.

Or worse, forced under persecution to renounce Him as a false prophet, as Judaism dictates.




JLB

 

[WalterandDebbie]

Or worse, forced under persecution to renounce Him as a false prophet, as Judaism dictates.




JLB

Yeah!

 

[TheGoldenThread]

You’re welcome. Would you mind answering

I did answer this question in my opening statement. I shared that you were still taking it out of context as the answer to the overall question you were getting at with that question.

I said this In post #40:

You didn't say this in response to something I said. It more that 200 posts ago.

A great place to start, no doubt. But who’s taking them out of context? Not me. Or at least nobody’s shown any evidence that I’ve taken these Scriptures out of context. See where I’d already pointed out that what Jesus and Paul meant by confessing Jesus is Lord was NOT merely a ritual. It’s just what it says it is, a confession. Get it??? Like a confession in court! Which, by the way, those Jesus will tell to depart from Him where not confessing Jesus is Lord, they were questioning Him not “confessing” Him. A question is not a confession. Neither is a confession a ritual. Even in their question to Him, they where questioning His Lordship.

Where did you already point out that confessing Jesus was not a ritual? Are you referring to you stating "confessing Jesus is not a ritual"? Why would you saying this prove confession is not a ritual?

You didn't answer any of these parts of my post:

There faith isn't dead like most Christians in the west. People confess Jesus as Lord all the time, yet their hearts are far away from them. (Matthew 15:8)

On judgment day, Jesus will deny people entrance into Heaven even though they 'confessed' Jesus as Lord (Matthew 7:21-22 & Matthew 25: 31-46) Notice in both these teachings, Jesus is requiring us to do more than just "confess" him to be saved.

You seemed to quote only certain parts of my post, while leaving out other parts... Why is that?

You’re welcome. Would you mind answering




I said this In post #40:



A great place to start, no doubt. But who’s taking them out of context? Not me. Or at least nobody’s shown any evidence that I’ve taken these Scriptures out of context. See where I’d already pointed out that what Jesus and Paul meant by confessing Jesus is Lord was NOT merely a ritual. It’s just what it says it is, a confession. Get it??? Like a confession in court! Which, by the way, those Jesus will tell to depart from Him where not confessing Jesus is Lord, they were questioning Him not “confessing” Him. A question is not a confession. Neither is a confession a ritual. Even in their question to Him, they where questioning His Lordship.

On that day many will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and expel demons in your name, and perform many miracles in your name?’​

Matthew 7:22 - https://www.biblegateway.com/passage?search=Matthew 7:22&version=LEB


Sure. It can even happen on a spiritual scale, inside one’s heart, too. When I confessed Jesus is Lord it WAS NOT done so out of fear fear for my life by human hands/governors/persecution in this world. But it WAS done under a threat to my life by His hands (Jesus’) in the next world.


When God gives someone the gift of saving faith (a noun), He does so abundantly:

But when the kindness and love for mankind of God our Savior appeared, he saved us, not by deeds of righteousness that we have done, but because of his mercy, through the washing of regeneration and renewal by the Holy Spirit, whom he poured out on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Savior, so that, having been justified by his grace, we may become heirs according to the hope of eternal life.​

Titus 3:4-7 - https://www.biblegateway.com/passage?search=Titus 3:4-7&version=LEB

Sure. He’s not just the King of the Jews but the King of all Kings.

QUOTE="TheGoldenThread, post: 1500423, member: 14117"] Therefore, everybody is covered under the blood? Correct?

Correct. Everyone who confesses Jesus is Lord from every tribe, tongue and nation are covered under the blood from the seed of Abraham. God provided the Sacrifice for Jews and Gentiles through Christ.[/QUOTE]

I still don't understand why you don't consider confession a work. It seems you are not wanting to accept that a confession is a work because it would mean you believe that we have to do something in order to be saved. Of course, you can't say this because it would mean we are somehow 'earning' our way to heaven. At the same time you say we must "confess" Jesus in order to be covered by the blood of Jesus. So which one is it? Is it a free gift that everybody receives? Or do we have to confess (do a work) Jesus in order to be covered by the blood of Jesus?

Most likely people will say only those that believe the gospel or Jesus (or something to this effect) will go to heaven. Pause. Are people putting a condition on salvation? I thought it was free? If it is free, then why do people say that we must "believe" in Jesus. Of course! Because that is a requirement that Jesus laid out in John 3:16. Duh!

Now the big question is: How do we believe Jesus? We already learned that we can't just confess him as lord, because Jesus will still send people to hell that has professed Him as Lord. What is it then?

Lastly, you never answered these questions either.

In peace

 

[chessman]

I did answer this question in my opening statement.

Not really. You said it came from one verse of Paul’s.
I showed where it (confessing Jesus is Lord) came from Jesus, not one verse of Paul’s.

And I say to you, everyone who confesses Me in front of people, the Son of Man also will confess him in front of the angels of God.​

Luke 12:8 - https://www.biblegateway.com/passage?search=Luke 12:8&version=DLNT

This is Jesus’ teaching not Paul.

Do you still believe it came from one verse of Paul’s even though Jesus taught it to His disciples years before Paul became an Apostle of Jesus? That’s the question!

I shared that you were still taking it out of context as the answer to the overall question you were getting at with that question.

How is what Jesus says in the Luke 12:8 or Rom 10:9 ‘out of context’ to the question of salvation?

You didn't say this in response to something I said.

Yes I did. See post #20.

Where did you already point out that confessing Jesus was not a ritual?

In post #20, a reply to you. Look it up in any dictionary or in how Jesus or Paul used the word. Or in what it meant to a 1st Century Jew confessing Jesus is Lord to his/her governors or family members for that matter. Or what it means today to sign a confession. A confession is not a ritual. You are the only person I know that thinks a confession is a ritual.

Why would you saying this prove confession is not a ritual?

Because of the evidence of what I said was true about confessing Jesus is Lord matching both what Jesus taught, what Paul taught and what the dictionaries teach about “confession” versus a ritual. A confession is NOT a ritual. When someone signs a confession under police or a prosecutor’s interrogation are they signing a ritual???

You didn't answer any of these parts of my post:

They did’t deal with Theology (study of God), they were your opinion of certain people’s hearts.

“There faith isn't dead like most Christians in the west. People confess Jesus as Lord all the time, yet their hearts are far away from them. (Matthew 15:8)”​

If I were to deal with it, I’d ask you a couple of questions about your statements above;
Have you any qualifications to make heart assessments for “most Christians” in the west??? Are you familiar with just how much charity (love for others) and missions western Christians spread around the world???

You seemed to quote only certain parts of my post, while leaving out other parts... Why is that?

Various reasons. Sometimes it’s because I agree with certain portions, sometimes it’s because I find certain portions off-topic and then sometimes it would make the reply to long.

I was trying to discuss things in order, first things first. When you said confessing Jesus came from one verse of Paul’s taken out of context, I was trying to see if you could see that’s incorrect based on the fact it came from Jesus (well before Paul).

I still don't understand why you don't consider confession a work.

Simple. Because it’s not.

If a criminal signs a confession or stands in front of a judge and confesses his crime verbally, does he get paid for it (a wage)?

 

[JLB]

I still don't understand why you don't consider confession a work.

Whether he does or doesn’t, is going to change the truth, that confession is the “work” or action of obedience by which we are initially saved.


Faith without this action of obedience is dead.



JLB

 

[ezra]

seriously you act like this is a court of law

 

[WIP]

seriously you act like this is a court of law

Hi ezra. I'd like to understand your position more clearly. Couple questions if you don't mind.

1. Do you agree that baptism is a necessary act of obedience?
2. If so, do you believe that it is obedience not for the sake of gaining salvation but rather as a response to salvation?

 

[ezra]

Hi ezra. I'd like to understand your position more clearly. Couple questions if you don't mind.

1. Do you agree that baptism is a necessary act of obedience?
2. If so, do you believe that it is obedience not for the sake of gaining salvation but rather as a response to salvation?

actually i dont mind in fact i have stated my position numerous times . i will give you my position in one word YES AND YES see how hard that was? instead of in the previous 200 post you failed to answer my question reply yes i did you failed to understand . so does this satisfy your question.. was i just put on the witness stand for a litmus test? i am wired different than most i say what i mean and mean what i say? would there be something else you would like me to answer ? might i add some odd post back i made it clear on faith without works ..how baptism comes to this not sure..i guess one could say it was a type work . this subject creates more fire other than osas ..that one phrase that brings out the religious police

 

[for_his_glory]

I can't see it as being a work to confess Jesus as Lord and savior, but that of a heart's decision. We believe by faith that is Christ Jesus in whom is God's grace to all who will believe and confess Him as Lord and Savior.

Ephesians 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: 9 Not of works, lest any man should boast. 10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

After believeing and confessing Jesus as Lord and Savior then comes the works which are the continued works of the Lord and not our own. Baptism of the Holy Spirit also comes after we believe and repent as it is the indwelling power of the Holy Spirit that indwells us and empowers us to walk in obedience to God's commands and stature as we take the Gospel message to the world.