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Nicolaitans?

ezrider

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I asked a question about the Nicolaitans, not sure how this became a history lesson on the Papacy. You will not know who the antichrist is until you first remove the log that is in your own eye.
 

Jethro Bodine

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No, this suggests that YOU ASSUME that the man of lawlessness and the antichrist are the same person.
So you're saying the man of lawlessness is not the anti-christ...but who surely is himself an anti-christ?

I have definitively shown that the supposed antichrist was present at the time of John's writing...
He shows the system of anti-christ, and those who walk in it, is present at the time of his writings.

...and also that this antichrist is not one person but all those who deny the Father and the Son.
Which includes the man of lawlessness, but who is not to be called the anti-christ, right?

You have so many assumptions within your argument that come from popular church teaching it would be hard to know where to begin. Go read all the passages on the antichrist specifically, then come back to me.
We know who the many anti-christs are, John tells us. But who is this singular anti-christ that they had been told is coming?

"Children, it is the last hour; and just as you heard that antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have appeared; from this we know that it is the last hour." (1 John 2:18 NASB)

And just to be clear, you're saying this anti-christ that is coming (but which is already here in the form of the denial of Christ) is not even a person, and is not to be confused with the man of lawlessness that is coming, right?
 

Jethro Bodine

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I asked a question about the Nicolaitans, not sure how this became a history lesson on the Papacy. You will not know who the antichrist is until you first remove the log that is in your own eye.
JLB made the connection between the abuses of the leadership of the C. Church and the abuse of leadership among the Nicolatians. I don't know nuttin' about that, but I do see the connection between the license to sin endorsed by the C. Church of yore and the Nicolatians.
 

turnorburn

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Its the strong delusion Jethro that's keeping the world from seeing the truth even though that truth is right under their noses its no wonder John "wondered with great admiration"

II Thessalonians 2:7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.

8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:

9 Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,

10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.

11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:

12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

tob
 

turnorburn

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Doulos.. are you saying you've been enlightened that God has given you a key that opens a different door than the one we've been passing through for thousands of years.. if that's the case this discusion can never go anywhere

tob
 

Doulos Iesou

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I asked a question about the Nicolaitans, not sure how this became a history lesson on the Papacy. You will not know who the antichrist is until you first remove the log that is in your own eye.
It has zero relevance to the Papacy, and I am demonstrating that.
 

jasonc

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im not a fan of the modern rcc church, but to take a chapter here or there and make them fit for some anti-rcc position is wrong.

has the Lutherans responsible for the shoah in part with luthers statements of the hate toward the jews apologized? not to my knowledge. I know that most Lutherans wouldn't do that.
 

ezrider

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JLB made the connection between the abuses of the leadership of the C. Church and the abuse of leadership among the Nicolatians. I don't know nuttin' about that, but I do see the connection between the license to sin endorsed by the C. Church of yore and the Nicolatians.

I guess I might be able to see that in some sense if I were to consider how that the Lord appeared to the children of Israel in the fire, but they choose to follow Moses instead. Then the Lord set judges over them, but the people desired to have a king over them instead.
 

Doulos Iesou

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JLB made the connection between the abuses of the leadership of the C. Church and the abuse of leadership among the Nicolatians. I don't know nuttin' about that, but I do see the connection between the license to sin endorsed by the C. Church of yore and the Nicolatians.
JLB fabricated a connection, nothing about the Nicolaitans indicates that their error was creating a hierarchy of leadership. Their error which is clear from Scripture and the Early Christian Church is that they fell into the error of antinomianism, they believed that one didn't have to be righteous at all and could live in indulgence.

Where has the RCC granted a license to sin? Hypocrisy is one thing, but their doctrine certainly doesn't grant this.
 

JLB

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I see the problem being the way the offices of leadership are abused, not that there are offices of leadership.

Apostles, Prophets, Evangelist's, Pastors and Teachers, Bishop's, Deacons and Elders, all speak to us of Leadership.

Sheep need Shepherds.

However, that is not the issue.

It is the Hierarchy that separate's the children of God into classes.

"Royalty" and "Commoners".

Those that "serve", and those that are "served'.


JLB
 

Doulos Iesou

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Its the strong delusion Jethro that's keeping the world from seeing the truth even though that truth is right under their noses its no wonder John "wondered with great admiration"

II Thessalonians 2:7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.

8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:

9 Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,

10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.

11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:

12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

tob
You just like to hijack whatever Scripture you want, claim that everyone is blind/deluded by ripping a Scripture out of it's context, and think this won't be pointed out?
 

jasonc

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wow, this will now be going into the only church is the home church where everyone Is a pastor.
Apostles, Prophets, Evangelist's, Pastors and Teachers, Bishop's, Deacons and Elders, all speak to us of Leadership.

Sheep need Shepherds.

However, that is not the issue.

It is the Hierarchy that separate's the children of God into classes.

"Royalty" and "Commoners".

Those that "serve", and those that are "served'.


JLB
 

Doulos Iesou

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Doulos.. are you saying you've been enlightened that God has given you a key that opens a different door than the one we've been passing through for thousands of years.. if that's the case this discusion can never go anywhere

tob
I am just pointing to the Scriptures, rather than Church leaders who were in the midst of a reformation and would often use the Scriptures not in their 1st Century context but apply it to their current day.

They had poor exegesis in that regard, and you fall into the same pit by not turning to the Scriptures without presuppositions.

This is the antichrist, he who denies the Father and the Son. - John the Apostle, inspired by the Holy Spirit of God.

I'll side with John and you can side with Martin Luther and his lot.

Btw, it is also a fallacy to appeal to tradition for the truthfulness of something. Do you not embrace Sola Scriptura? Odd you would embrace their interpretation here, but reject Sola Scriptura by implication.
 

Doulos Iesou

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im not a fan of the modern rcc church, but to take a chapter here or there and make them fit for some anti-rcc position is wrong.
Amen, this goes beyond the RCC, this is about how we honor and treat the Scriptures. It does not serve you, do not twist the Word of God!

has the Lutherans responsible for the shoah in part with luthers statements of the hate toward the jews apologized? not to my knowledge. I know that most Lutherans wouldn't do that.
Martin Luther was a murderous man, I believe God used this man, but his unrepentant murderous heart makes me fearful for where he ended up.

I certainly won't ever consider myself a Lutheran.
 

jasonc

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where is @Vic C when we need him. the conversations when I was a mod and looking at eschatology were interesting. he wasn't a fan of the rcc and agrees that the reformers were wrong on that.that is why I say its the jews of jesus day that didn't repent.
 

turnorburn

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Isn't anything Vic can do Jason God has sent a strong delusion that they should believe a lie.:yes

so that they might be damned for not believing the truth


12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

tob
 

Jethro Bodine

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...the Lord appeared to the children of Israel in the fire, but they choose to follow Moses instead.
God said that was a good thing. It was pointing to how Christ will be the mediator between an angry, fear inspiring God and man.
 

turnorburn

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anticruc.jpg

Papistry has been killing Bible-believing Christians for centuries. According to Jacob Primer, in "Pastor Jacob Primmer in Rome" p. 215 upside down crucifixion is one of the tortures they used on our forefathers during the Inquisition (the picture at left was taken from the book "Pastor Jacob Primmer in Rome", sixth edition, 1912, Dunfermline Citizen office. In the next segment of the slideshow there is a picture of various inquisition tortures which include another upside down crucifixion. Inverted crucifixion is also pictured and mentioned in Samuel Clarke's Martyrology circa 1651). In this context, the pope's inverted cross means "Death to all who oppose Rome!" As Horace Greeley said, "It is impossible to mentally or socially enslave a Bible reading people." Bible believers will NEVER fit in with a Luciferian New World Order since Christ is our King and the Bible our only creed. In order to innoculate deceived Catholics from receiving the gospel, high level papists devise a number of mind control techniques including the use of propaganda...

tob
 

Jethro Bodine

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Where has the RCC granted a license to sin? Hypocrisy is one thing, but their doctrine certainly doesn't grant this.
The famous indulgences of Luther's day....which caused the rebellion we call the Reformation. That's why I said the C. Church of yore.
 
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