Nicolaitans?

[Doulos Iesou]

Don't forget Martin Luther worshipped Mary..

The Catholic Church has always believed that Mary, just like Adam and Eve, was conceived without a fallen nature and unlike our first parents, she resisted temptation to sin by the grace of God, throughout her whole life.

Interestingly, Martin Luther, founder of the Protestant Reformation believed in Mary’s Immaculate Conception.

https://bfhu.wordpress.com/2007/12/12/martin-luther-believed-in-marys-immaculate-conception/

tob

Neither the RCC or Martin Luther worshiped Mary, this is a common mis-characterization.

 

[JLB]

What does the text say jasonc, remove all the preconceived assumptions in your head. What does John say about who the antichrist is?

Are the Muslims against Christ?
Are the Jews against Christ?

Do both of them deny the Father and the Son?

The Antichrist will appear to many to be Christ, but in reality will be a false Christ.

So in that regard the Antichrist will be "against Christ" in that he will try to gain credibility as The Christ.

He will be The False Messiah, not just a random person who is against Christ.

JLB

 

[Doulos Iesou]

The Antichrist will appear to many to be Christ, but in reality will be a false Christ.

Curious, where does Scripture say this specifically about the "antichrist"? Or are you simply making this up?

So in that regard the Antichrist will be "against Christ" in that he will try to gain credibility as The Christ.

How do you explain how John says that there are "many antichrists" and that they are present at his time. And that those who deny the Father and the Son are antichrists.

He will be The False Messiah, not just a random person who is against Christ.

Show it to me in Scripture.

You guys just keep making these naked assertions without any shred of evidence, you just make statements as if they are true and then offer no justification for it.

Baffling...

 

[for_his_glory]

There's no questioning the interesting parallels between the papacy and prophecy. It's still just too much of a stretch that the Catholic religion, in whatever form, will be the world's religion someday, as part of a one world religious, political, and economic kingdom. The Muslims will not go down without a serious fight. Acutally, I think a better case can be made for the Muslim religion becoming the murderous end-time religious, political, and economic kingdom of the last days. But even that has it's problems, too.

I'm not talking about the Catholic religion, but what is behind it all that controls even the Masonic Muslim, which is the Jesuits that have worldly control. For the Jesuit papacy to rebuild the Temple of Solomon it will require them to destroy The Al Aqsa Mosque and the nation of Israel, meaning destroy all the Jews, Muslims and Christians.

 

[jasonc]

the Jesuits control the masons? hmm and there aren't jewish masons? my grandfather was one of those.

 

[JLB]

I still see you addressing the issue of abuse in the hierarchy, not the hierarchy itself. I'm okay with this. But I think it important that we see the difference. Which I think you do.

Hierarchy = Categorization of a group of people according to ability or status. = Nicolatians

A royal priesthood, a holy nation, His own special people = The Kingdom of God


JLB

 

[JLB]

Curious, where does Scripture say this specifically about the "antichrist"? Or are you simply making this up?


How do you explain how John says that there are "many antichrists" and that they are present at his time. And that those who deny the Father and the Son are antichrists.


Show it to me in Scripture.

You guys just keep making these naked assertions without any shred of evidence, you just make statements as if they are true and then offer no justification for it.

Baffling...

3 Let no one deceive you by any means; for that Day will not come unless the falling away comes first, and the man of sin is revealed, the son of perdition, 4 who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God or that is worshiped, so that he sits as God in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God...8 And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord will consume with the breath of His mouth and destroy with the brightness of His coming. 9 The coming of the lawless one is according to the working of Satan, with all power, signs, and lying wonders. 2 Thessalonians 2:3-9

• the man of sin
• the son of perdition
• the lawless one

These definitions refer to one person who will;

Go to The Temple of God in Jerusalem and proclaim himself as Messiah, showing himself as God.
Work signs and lying wonders as The Messiah.

The Jews are expecting The Messiah to come to the Temple.


JLB

 

[for_his_glory]

I honestly don't find commentaries very useful at all. Definitely not in an authoritative kind of way, anyway.

All commentaries are is theory that has been taught by others, but misquoting or taking scripture out of context to back up their theories. I have a Wilmington's Guide to the Bible I use to use years ago until I became a digger in the world and have found it to be full of false teachings.

 

[jasonc]

All commentaries are is theory that has been taught by others, but misquoting or taking scripture out of context to back up their theories. I have a Wilmington's Guide to the Bible I use to use years ago until I became a digger in the world and have found it to be full of false teachings.

yet you give your commentary.

I could say the same about you if just read the bible as I see it.hmm interesting how it works. so so is wrong because this grey area where I see what I want to see says im right. that is why I argue from preterist perspective but like deuolos I say Idk. its really that grey.

 

[Doulos Iesou]

3 Let no one deceive you by any means; for that Day will not come unless the falling away comes first, and the man of sin is revealed, the son of perdition, 4 who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God or that is worshiped, so that he sits as God in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God...8 And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord will consume with the breath of His mouth and destroy with the brightness of His coming. 9 The coming of the lawless one is according to the working of Satan, with all power, signs, and lying wonders. 2 Thessalonians 2:3-9

• the man of sin
• the son of perdition
• the lawless one

These definitions refer to one person who will;

Go to The Temple of God in Jerusalem and proclaim himself as Messiah, showing himself as God.
Work signs and lying wonders as The Messiah.

The Jews are expecting The Messiah to come to the Temple.


JLB

Curious, where in 2 Thessalonians is this person referred to as the antichrist? Is this just your unjustified assumption?

 

[Doulos Iesou]

All commentaries are is theory that has been taught by others, but misquoting or taking scripture out of context to back up their theories. I have a Wilmington's Guide to the Bible I use to use years ago until I became a digger in the world and have found it to be full of false teachings.

Depends on which commentary you are using. I doubt you've read any of value by this kind of statement.

These scholars aren't useful in their interpretation, but YOUR interpretation is quite useful... hmmm.

 

[Doulos Iesou]

Hierarchy = Categorization of a group of people according to ability or status. = Nicolatians

Where did you get this from? I am genuinely curious how this idea was made up.

 

[turnorburn]

I have it I have it! i probably shouldn't say this but Buffalo Bob died of a deadly head wound and Howdy Doody was the false prophet that is suppose to bring him back to life i got that hot off the presses from Doody's commentaries circa 1954.. Just keep looking to the east and sooner or later he'll appear.. :yes

tob

 

[jasonc]

Where did you get this from? I am genuinely curious how this idea was made up.

futurism and look up cyrus schofield, darby, start there and also the dallas theological seminary.

 

[JLB]

Curious, where in 2 Thessalonians is this person referred to as the antichrist? Is this just your unjustified assumption?

This person is referred to as; The man of sin, and the son of perdition, and the lawless one, all of whom are references to one man, who will pose as the Messiah.

These are just some of the terms by which he is referred to.

He will in fact be the False Messiah or Antichrist that John refers to.

Little children, it is the last hour; and as you have heard that the Antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have come, by which we know that it is the last hour.1 John 2:18

Daniel refers to him as the "prince who is to come", as well as the "little horn".

The word "antichrist" is made up of two roots: αντί (anti) + Χριστός (Khristos). "Αντί" can mean not only "against" and "opposite of", but also "in place of"


JLB

 

[for_his_glory]

yet you give your commentary.

I could say the same about you if just read the bible as I see it.hmm interesting how it works. so so is wrong because this grey area where I see what I want to see says im right. that is why I argue from preterist perspective but like deuolos I say Idk. its really that grey.

I do not see what I post as commentary, but actual scriptural teachings as commentaries are what others think the word says by rationalization of the carnal mind and not that of the Holy Spirit teaching them. I have written many Biblical classes that I teach from, but the difference between me and all those well known authors is that I never ask anyone to believe me for what I say, but to take the scriptures I give and search them out for themselves by comparing scripture with scripture, OT to NT, as only the Holy Spirit can teach us all truths. I alone will stand before the Lord to give an account for those things I have taught others and am very cautious in what I teach. Agree with me or disagree with me, it truly doesn't matter, but dig the word out for yourself for all truths by allowing the Holy Spirit open your Spiritual eyes and ears to hear and see what God has already spoken.


1John2:27 But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.

 

[for_his_glory]

Depends on which commentary you are using. I doubt you've read any of value by this kind of statement.

These scholars aren't useful in their interpretation, but YOUR interpretation is quite useful... hmmm.

I have never told anyone to believe what I have written, but to only study the scriptures I give in light of what I speak and allow the Holy Spirit discern truth from error. I follow no mans teachings unless I know that the Holy Spirit has taught them first.

 

[Doulos Iesou]

This person is referred to as; The man of sin, and the son of perdition, and the lawless one, all of whom are references to one man, who will pose as the Messiah.

Where does it say he will be a false Messiah?

These are just some of the terms by which he is referred to.

He will in fact be the False Messiah or Antichrist that John refers to.

The antichrist isn't one person, there are many who were in fact present at the time of John.

Your explanation for that?

Little children, it is the last hour; and as you have heard that the Antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have come, by which we know that it is the last hour.1 John 2:18

What translation is this? It's a terrible translation... but even yet it doesn't support your position.

You quote this as "the antichrist is coming," there is no definite article in the Greek, it is simply "that antichrist is coming," the definite article is wrongly added in this translation despite the fact there is none provided or warranted. This what we call adding to the Scriptures...

Also, he says, "even now man antichrists have come," so this means that there are more than one and that they have already come at John's time.

This contradicts the idea that it is a singular person coming in the future. As it is multiple people who have already come.

Daniel refers to him as the "prince who is to come", as well as the "little horn".

The word "antichrist" is made up of two roots: αντί (anti) + Χριστός (Khristos). "Αντί" can mean not only "against" and "opposite of", but also "in place of"

Well as the antichrist is identified as being many people, not just one it doesn't make sense for the Greek root "Αντί" to denote the idea of being in place of, but rather they are against because of their denial of the Son and the Father.

You see, you have no textual basis for having it denote the idea of being in place of, but you impose that view in order to substantiate your doctrine although it is inconsistent with the actual text.

Do you not realize all these assumptions that you are making?

 

[Doulos Iesou]

I have never told anyone to believe what I have written, but to only study the scriptures I give in light of what I speak and allow the Holy Spirit discern truth from error. I follow no mans teachings unless I know that the Holy Spirit has taught them first.

Strange, I haven't read any commentaries that ask their readers to do that either...

You're basically rejecting the God given gift of the teachers in the body. God gave the Church TEACHERS my friend.

These teachers are not infallible, but to say that all of them corporately are not useful is just ridiculous.

Also how does the Holy Spirit determine truth from error for you? Does the Holy Spirit grant you an infallible understanding of the Scriptures magically, while everyone else is wrong? What gives you such a power that other believers do not have?

 

[Doulos Iesou]

I do not see what I post as commentary, but actual scriptural teachings as commentaries are what others think the word says by rationalization of the carnal mind and not that of the Holy Spirit teaching them.

This is the definition of a commentary. "A spoken or written discussion in which people express opinions about someone or something." You are giving a commentary of the text, whether you like it or not.

Biblical Commentaries do their best to determine the meaning of the text via investigating the present culture, the original language and the surrounding context. You see we embrace this thing called Verbal Plenary Inspiration which means that Paul still writes as Paul, yet inspired by the Holy Spirit. Therefore it is important to know what Paul was like, and what was the occasion for his writings as he personally had purposes for them.

What you're suggesting sounds more like Gnosticism, like you are privy to some kind of "enlightenment" that is gained through mystical means while everyone else is working with the actual words and history to come up with false interpretations.

How come people who all have the Holy Spirit come to different interpretations than you?

I have written many Biblical classes that I teach from, but the difference between me and all those well known authors is that I never ask anyone to believe me for what I say, but to take the scriptures I give and search them out for themselves by comparing scripture with scripture, OT to NT, as only the Holy Spirit can teach us all truths.

Find me ONE Biblical Commentary that does the opposite of this. Just one please. You also do know that there is a Holy Spirit empowered ministry for the Church that is the Teachers?

I alone will stand before the Lord to give an account for those things I have taught others and am very cautious in what I teach.

You'll also give an account for what you say here, and don't look now but you're bearing false witness against these men.

Agree with me or disagree with me, it truly doesn't matter, but dig the word out for yourself for all truths by allowing the Holy Spirit open your Spiritual eyes and ears to hear and see what God has already spoken.

So exegesis is totally useless in your world?