The call of the Father.

[GodsGrace]

You give a very specific definition to a greek word. I'm a bit baffled when applying the definition to some of the scriptures using the word. A few instances:
Matthew 21:32
For John came to you in the way of righteousness, and you did not believe him, but the tax collectors and the prostitutes believed him. And even when you saw it, you did not afterward change your minds and believe him.
Matthew 24:23–26
Then if anyone says to you, ‘Look, here is the Christ!’ or ‘There he is!’ do not believe it.
For false christs and false prophets will arise and perform great signs and wonders, so as to lead astray, if possible, even the elect. See, I have told you beforehand. So, if they say to you, ‘Look, he is in the wilderness,’ do not go out. If they say, ‘Look, he is in the inner rooms,’ do not believe it.
Luke 1:20 (ESV)
And behold, you will be silent and unable to speak until the day that these things take place, because you did not believe my words, which will be fulfilled in their time.”
Romans 6:8 (ESV)
Now if we have died with Christ, we believe that we will also live with him.

When I try to apply your definition to the word in these passages, I find it akin to applying a wrong key to a lock or getting Cinderella's step-sisters' foot into the slipper.

Do you think maybe the word broadly means simply the same as the English words for "belief" and "convinced?"

Hi Hospes,

The Greek word for belief/believe does not mean the same as the English.

However, this is the problem with trying to apply Strong's to the bible. Each version of believe can be different...but the way that Watchman 2 is using the word in reference to BELIEVING in Christ is correct...it means more than a mental belief. It really means belief as in being in accord with and following that or whom you believe, a believing which is more of the heart than of the mind.

Much as Mary came to KNOW Joseph...it was more than a mental knowing....

 

[Watchman 2]

Hi Hospes,

The Greek word for belief/believe does not mean the same as the English.

However, this is the problem with trying to apply Strong's to the bible. Each version of believe can be different...but the way that Watchman 2 is using the word in reference to BELIEVING in Christ is correct...it means more than a mental belief. It really means belief as in being in accord with and following that or whom you believe, a believing which is more of the heart than of the mind.

Much as Mary came to KNOW Joseph...it was more than a mental knowing....

Are you interested if I started a thread about the Greek word pisteuo?

 

[GodsGrace]

What personal opinion?

I've only given the correct Greek word and it's correct definition.
The example was based in fact also.

Question? Do you understand salvation to be something that happens in a moment of time, where you " believe then recieve" the Spirit of Christ?

In your post no. 108 you said:
Doubling down on a failed understanding doesn't benefit any of us.

Maybe you didn't mean MY failed understanding...if so, I apologize for misunderstanding. If you DID mean me, then I merely quoted scripture and gave no personal opinion.

I agree with the definition of BELIEVE in the Greek.

As to salvation being something that happens in a moment...that would depend on what you mean by "a moment".

A person could be saved in different ways,,,I don't put God in a box.

Someone would have to be contemplating their salvation and MAYBE in a moment they realized that they trust in Jesus and understand who He is, and understand that they need to believe in God and so this could be a salvation moment.

I don't think someone could wake up one morning, out of the blue, and decide to believe. The N.T. says that one believes with the heart...I think this takes some contemplation.

But, as I said, salvation could come in many ways.

 

[GodsGrace]

Everyone on this thread knows what "pisteuo" means?

That is truly the most ridiculous thing anyone has ever said to me in a discussion site.

Although I wish that were true, after 25 years of looking for those who understood pisteuo, it's definition, and have successfully applied it, I've never found even one!

Maybe we can remedy that here!

In 25 years you've never found EVEN ONE that understands what PISTEUO means? Now THAT is a silly statement.

First of all, we should never say NO ONE, NEVER, ANY TIME, EVERYONE, etc. because we will always end up being wrong....myself included. I meant those that I saw in a couple of pages...I did not go back to page one and check who was on this thread....however, those that usually answer to a thread of this type...they do know what this word means.

Hang around some more and get to know us before assuming what we know and do not know!

 

[GodsGrace]

Are you interested if I started a thread about the Greek word pisteuo?

You're going to explain how it's an action and not a thought?

Go ahead...but just continuing here will work the same way...maybe.

 

[Watchman 2]

In 25 years you've never found EVEN ONE that understands what PISTEUO means? Now THAT is a silly statement.

First of all, we should never say NO ONE, NEVER, ANY TIME, EVERYONE, etc. because we will always end up being wrong....myself included. I meant those that I saw in a couple of pages...I did not go back to page one and check who was on this thread....however, those that usually answer to a thread of this type...they do know what this word means.

Hang around some more and get to know us before assuming what we know and do not know!

I only want to start a thread about pisteuo if there is any interest. Are you interested? Is there anyone interested?

 

[GodsGrace]

I only want to start a thread about pisteuo if there is any interest. Are you interested? Is there anyone interested?

Watchman2
I used to teach what this word means.

You'll find that members here are very knowledgeable and it's difficult to tell what thread may or may not "go".

Personally, I like the theme of THIS thread much better...
but try to stick to the O.P. and make your answers to the point and your beliefs known and this will make for easier conversation.

I happen to think this is a very important thread because the term "born again" is very misused these days.

 

[Watchman 2]

You're going to explain how it's an action and not a thought?

Go ahead...but just continuing here will work the same way...maybe.

I'd like to get more involvement from some others, at least 2 or 3 more.

I'll go through everything I've learned about pisteuo over the last 33 years by sharing a fact, then seeing if we can agree on it. Present another fact for agreement, and so on hopefully building a correct understanding.

So if there are a few others that would want to participate, I need to hear something from them.
After I do I'll start the new thread.

 

[Watchman 2]

Watchman2
I used to teach what this word means.

You'll find that members here are very knowledgeable and it's difficult to tell what thread may or may not "go".

Personally, I like the theme of THIS thread much better...
but try to stick to the O.P. and make your answers to the point and your beliefs known and this will make for easier conversation.

I happen to think this is a very important thread because the term "born again" is very misused these days.

I can't share my personal understandings until we can come to a unified understanding of what saving Faith is.

A terminology we all understand.

 

[GodsGrace]

I'd like to get more involvement from some others, at least 2 or 3 more.

I'll go through everything I've learned about pisteuo over the last 33 years by sharing a fact, then seeing if we can agree on it. Present another fact for agreement, and so on hopefully building a correct understanding.

So if there are a few others that would want to participate, I need to hear something from them.
After I do I'll start the new thread.

This sounds like a plan....
JLB would be interested in this, if he has time.
OzSpen also,
and JohnDB ...

I hate to list because I know I've forgotten some...
for_his_glory will come back too if you're nice to her!

PISTEOU has A LOT to do with salvation...
so go ahead and post your first ideas about this word....

 

[GodsGrace]

I can't share my personal understandings until we can come to a unified understanding of what saving Faith is.

A terminology we all understand.

What is saving faith?

 

[OzSpen]

This sounds like a plan....
JLB would be interested in this, if he has time.
OzSpen also,
and JohnDB ...

I hate to list because I know I've forgotten some...
for_his_glory will come back too if you're nice to her!

PISTEOU has A LOT to do with salvation...
so go ahead and post your first ideas about this word....

wondering,

The correct verb is pisteuw (transliteration). The 'w' at the end of the word is to show the last letter is omega and not omicron which is transliterated as 'o'.

From where are we going to obtain a correct understanding of pisteuw = I believe?

In the NT and LXX does it refer to more than belief?

Oz

 

[GodsGrace]

wondering,

The correct verb is pisteuw (transliteration). The 'w' at the end of the word is to show the last letter is omega and not omicron which is transliterated as 'o'.

From where are we going to obtain a correct understanding of pisteuw = I believe?

In the NT and LXX does it refer to more than belief?

Oz

Oz,

I was just going to shut down and saw this.
Yes, I DO believe it means more than a mental belief.
As you know, I used to teach kids about this till I stopped a few years ago.

It's a good topic and I hope the O.P. continues with this.

The correct understanding comes from the fact that we are to believe with the heart and not with the mind.

I could believe my uncle exists...
OR I could BELIEVE IN HIM...
there is a distinct difference.

Could we continue tomorrow morninng?
I'm really tired.
We're all getting cabin fever.

Romans 10:9-11
9that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved; 10for with the heart a person believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation.
11For the Scripture says, “WHOEVER BELIEVES IN HIM WILL NOT BE DISAPPOINTED.”

Any comment?
'night.

(all good there?)

 

[Watchman 2]

wondering,

The correct verb is pisteuw (transliteration). The 'w' at the end of the word is to show the last letter is omega and not omicron which is transliterated as 'o'.

From where are we going to obtain a correct understanding of pisteuw = I believe?

In the NT and LXX does it refer to more than belief?

Oz

Could you give a strongs number for the word pisteuw?

I'm talking about the word pisteuo. 4100

 

[for_his_glory]

So we're starting from the beginning again?

First you said yes, that a person could respond with saving Faith, not knowing Christ or the Gospel.

Then , when I last heard, you were on the fence. I asked if you changed your mind, and you never answered.

Sorry I haven't gotten back to you until now as I have been away from home today.

No, I am not starting from the beginning as my answer is still yes. Saving faith has always been the belief in God as His name has always been proclaimed throughout the world starting with Adam, way before the birth of Christ, but yet Christ is taught throughout the OT beginning in Genesis. I stand on what I have said throughout all my post to you.

IMO, I feel like you are looking for an answer that you already have in your mind, but yet no one has answered that. I feel like I am only repeating myself over and over, but not getting anywhere within our discussion.

 

[for_his_glory]

True NT saving Faith that's results in recieving the Spirit of Christ has nothing to do with "believing" in the word of God or His promises. Saving Faith must be in the person of God Himself, a real living person.

The same process of Faithing into God done without someone knowing Christ or His word, is the same process that should be fulfilled today.

Let me ask you a question. How can anyone believe in something they never heard of? It would be impossible. If I never heard of chocolate cake, then how would I know there was such a thing. It's the same with God and Jesus because of Romans 10:13-21.

Yes, people can believe in saving faith, if they know it's available to them.

 

[Watchman 2]

Let me ask you a question. How can anyone believe in something they never heard of? It would be impossible. If I never heard of chocolate cake, then how would I know there was such a thing. It's the same with God and Jesus because of Romans 10:13-21.

Yes, people can believe in saving faith, if they know it's available to them.

Every act, based upon a Belief, sustained by confidence (pisteuo) must have its own specific "object" of Faith.

We fulfill hundreds of acts, based upon a Belief, sustained by confidence every day, all with different objects of Faith.

So pisteuo as it's relates to the living God, (the Father, the caller) in this case. The object of Faith is the caller!

The surrendered life is to the caller, based upon a Belief that the caller will except the surrendered life, sustained by confidence in the hundreds of decisions make every day supporting the fact our lives are no longer ours anymore, but the callers now.

 

[for_his_glory]

FHG,
How do YOU explain Romans 1:19-20?

In order to understand just vs. 19 and 20 you have to go back to vs. 18 and read through to vs. 32 as this is the reason and the results of Gentile guilt for not believing in God. Even though we can not physically see Him, we can see God in all that He has created as He only had to speak all of creation into existence.

 

[for_his_glory]

I'd like to get more involvement from some others, at least 2 or 3 more.

I'll go through everything I've learned about pisteuo over the last 33 years by sharing a fact, then seeing if we can agree on it. Present another fact for agreement, and so on hopefully building a correct understanding.

So if there are a few others that would want to participate, I need to hear something from them.
After I do I'll start the new thread.

I believe all of us have been discussing saving faith all along, especially within all the scriptures we have been sharing as the whole discussion has been about saving faith.

I could not see myself participating in another thread about the same subject you have presented here especially when you seem to not want anyone to use scripture.

 

[for_his_glory]

I can't share my personal understandings until we can come to a unified understanding of what saving Faith is.

A terminology we all understand.

I think you should share your personal understanding so we can understand where you are coming from in order to see if we are all in unity.