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The Lord shows Abraham the future...

Stormcrow

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To say 'those standing there' have to be the physical people only is blind sight on your part
Oh, puh-leeeeeze! Look at the verse just three up from Matthew 16:27:

Then Jesus said to His disciples, "If anyone wishes to come after Me, he must deny himself, and take up his cross and follow Me. Matthew 16:24 (NASB)

He wasn't talking to you!

What ends will some people go to to ignore the plainly spoken and recorded words of Christ?!?!? Unbelievable! :grumpy:grumpy:grumpy
 

smaller

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Oh, puh-leeeeeze! Look at the verse just three up from Matthew 16:27:

Then Jesus said to His disciples, "If anyone wishes to come after Me, he must deny himself, and take up his cross and follow Me. Matthew 16:24 (NASB)

He wasn't talking to you!


That's another slanted play you put out. Jesus said 'man' will not live by bread alone, but live by every Word of God.

Just because you can't seem to figure out how that is so doesn't mean it's not as Jesus said.

What ends will some people go to to ignore the plainly spoken and recorded words of Christ?!?!? Unbelievable!
What is just as unbelievable is how you seek to eliminate the Word of God as applicable in the present.

There is a 'generation' of vipers/serpents to consider in 'those standing there.'

These matters were not matters played out only upon Jewish inhabitants of the time.

s
 

Stormcrow

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That's another slanted play you put out. Jesus said 'man' will not live by bread alone, but live by every Word of God.

And that has exactly what to do with your ridiculous assertion that Jesus wasn't speaking to physical people standing right in front of Him???

You wrote:

To say 'those standing there' have to be the physical people only is blind sight on your part


When proven how utterly, embarrassingly silly that was, from the Bible itself, no less (imagine that!) you come back with this???

Just because you can't seem to figure out how that is so doesn't mean it's not as Jesus said.
LOL!!!!!

You're right, smaller, Jesus wasn't talking to His disciples when He spoke the words (or maybe He didn't speak them...maybe He used mental telepathy???) to real, physical people who were standing right there in front of Him when He said:

some...standing here...will not taste death until they see the Son of Man coming in His kingdom.

Yep, Jesus must've have been "speaking in tongues" that only someone such as yourself could understand some 2,000 years later! Call Dan Brown: I think we have a new plot for his next gnostic novel!

There is a 'generation' of vipers/serpents to consider in 'those standing there.'

These matters were not matters played out only upon Jewish inhabitants of the time.
Considering your recent foray into Biblical exegesis, you'll excuse me if I don't believe this, either. :rolling
 

Stormcrow

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Posted this in another forum, but probably needs to be here.

Re: looking at the bible from a hebrew mindset

See if you can see the thread of prophecy and fulfillment that runs through these passages.

So I will choose their punishments And will bring on them what they dread. Because I called, but no one answered; I spoke, but they did not listen. And they did evil in My sight And chose that in which I did not delight." Isaiah 66:4 (NASB)

Therefore the chief priests and the Pharisees convened a council, and were saying, "What are we doing? For this man is performing many signs. "If we let Him go on like this, all men will believe in Him, and the Romans will come and take away both our place and our nation." John 11:47-48 (NASB)

When He approached Jerusalem, He saw the city and wept over it, saying, "If you had known in this day, even you, the things which make for peace! But now they have been hidden from your eyes." For the days will come upon you when your enemies will throw up a barricade against you, and surround you and hem you in on every side, and they will level you to the ground and your children within you, and they will not leave in you one stone upon another, because you did not recognize the time of your visitation." Luke 19:41-44 (NASB)

Isaiah, writing through the inspiration of the Holy Spirit, writes that God will bring upon Israel the punishments they dread the most. Isn't it ironic that in John 11, we see the Sanhedrin gathered to discuss how to preserve their “nation and place” by killing Jesus? Look at the solution upon which they arrived:

But one of them, Caiaphas, who was high priest that year, said to them, "You know nothing at all, nor do you take into account that it is expedient for you that one man die for the people, and that the whole nation not perish." John 11:49-50 (NASB)

The thing these men feared the most was losing the power and influence they had as rulers of the people. The bitter irony for them was that God met their injustice against Christ with the very thing they feared the most: they lost their city, their religion, their nation, and their position as the “people of God” when Rome's legions breached Jerusalem's walls in 70 AD and left not one stone upon another, just as Christ predicted.

When the New Testament is carefully read, without the presuppositions of futurism overlayed on it, you will see that the “end times” mentioned throughout it point to this world-shattering event for first century Israel and its temple-centric religion. This is the Jewish mindset through which the New Testament must be read: it really was almost all about them.

With that in mind, crack Revelation open with the new set of eyes you've just been given, and see if it all doesn't begin to make a great deal more sense now. :salute
 

smaller

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And that has exactly what to do with your ridiculous assertion that Jesus wasn't speaking to physical people standing right in front of Him???


Ridiculous assertion? Your quest is to eliminate the applicability of Gods Words. Nothing more than that.

Matthew 7:24

Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock:

Luke 6:47

Whosoever
cometh to me, and heareth my sayings, and doeth them, I will shew you to whom he is like:

You can kick and scream all you want that these are eliminated by discourse to only certain individuals, which 'hearing' obviously shot by your own ears.

When proven how utterly, embarrassingly silly that was, from the Bible itself, no less (imagine that!) you come back with this???
We all know the full preterist claims. That Satan and devils were also 'supposedly' destroyed in 70 a.d., which of course exists exactly nowhere in the text. Purely external imaginations and understandings on the part of that doctrinal position (not to mention numerous other forms of nonsense.)

You're right, Jesus wasn't talking to His disciples when He spoke the words (or maybe He didn't speak them...maybe He used mental telepathy???) to real, physical people who were standing right there in front of Him when He said:

some standing here will not taste death until they see the Son of Man coming in His kingdom.

Yep, Jesus must've have been "speaking in tongues" that only someone such as yourself could understand some 2,000 years later! Call Dan Brown: I think we have a new plot for his next gnostic novel!


It doesn't take a genius to read that Satan entered Judas and STOOD THERE also within Judas. Just because you can't see it, you don't seem to be able to 'get it' and then you resort to petty and continual personal insults.

Why don't you just 'get real' sometime?

Considering your recent foray into Biblical exegesis, you'll excuse me if I don't believe this, either.

And this addresses the points of 'facts' presented how stormcrow?
Recent foray?

I can certainly see why they put your heresy positions in a separate forum as those who present legitimate alternative sights are personally attacked rather than meeting on the grounds of civil observations.

Your methodology is clear enough, to the extent of making the LIVING AND ACTIVE Word of God only living and active to Jews of 70 a.d.

You can make my handle as small as you please, but that will not eliminate the Word of God being as alive and active now as then.

s
 

reba

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Rude why? Why rude? Cant you guys discuss subjects with out the personal barbs back and forth? Direct your skills of verbiage to the subject not the persons.

You are responsible for how your posts read when edited . Please try and edit them your selfs. If you wouldn't like/want another member to say 'that' to or about you dont you say it...

It is NOT rude to say " i disagree" or IMPOV .
 
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jasoncran

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What people actually IGNORE is that which the Apostle to the GENTILES warned them to NOT be ignorant of.. lest they become wise in their own conceits..

Another things which many IGNORE is that a DAY with the Lord is as a thousand years and a thousand years are as one DAY..

Another thing which many IGNORE today is the warning to not be DECEIVED by those who SAY that the Day of the Lord is at hand..

There are all kinds of things which are ignored today and the Apostle to the circumcision tells us that it's no accident..
what if you were told that early church was mostly jewish and not gentile? my pastor who is a futurist even says that.hmm hebrews of all the tribes. nah a promise was kept. did i ever say the world was perfected and that jesus returned NO, i maintain that he judged the nation of isreal for a sin they did.

spend some time and try to win the jews over and listen to what they say then try to tell them that HAVE to do the law to be saved or believe in christ. a jew that follows jesus isnt a jew anymore but a christian(follower of christ) so if isreal confesses christ then what are they now? followers of christ!

when i say im of isreal that is to show that im of abraham that is in christ in both the flesh and in spirit. basic stuff.

now then.you do take revalation literally right?
revalation 1:7
Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen.
where are they that pierced him? dead and where? remember the final judgement of the living and dead hasnt happened yet. so that means what? they had to be after john's writing of this book and before our time( by john's death at the most and that is 100 ad approx).

i take that literally.
 

reba

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G1484
ἔθνος
ethnos
eth'-nos
Probably from G1486; a race (as of the same habit), that is, a tribe; specifically a foreign (non-Jewish) one (usually by implication pagan): - Gentile, heathen, nation, people.

Christians are not heathens


Eph_2:19 Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God;

1Pe_2:9 But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light:
 

jasoncran

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yes and that is where the futurist doesnt get it.

i quote myself and i have said to a pastor

Dont allow zionism to decide what is in the bible as fact
 

Stormcrow

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How is it that you can so blatantly call me "blind" for assuming Jesus was speaking to real, physical people standing right in front of Him when the very passage from which Matthew 16:27-28 is drawn starts with the words, "THEN JESUS SAID TO HIS DISCIPLES!" .

Your quest is to eliminate the applicability of Gods Words. Nothing more than that.
You ascribe malice to people where there is none and then do the very thing of which you accuse others????

:lol:lol:lol

Wow. Out of deference to reba, we're done now, or I'm going to write what I REALLY think of this whole conversation!
 
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Stormcrow

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Our pastor at church this morning made a passing comment about Revelation and how he's a pre-tribber. He claimed two things that I couldn't have agreed with more: Revelation is about judgment and the church wouldn't go through it.

Jerusalem was, indeed, judged and the church at Jerusalem escaped to Pella across the Jordan, thus avoiding God's wrath on the city. So, he was - generally speaking - right on both counts.

Unfortunately, like all futurists, he's off on his timing by about 2,000 years.
 

jasoncran

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woops. so what is the nation of isreal then when they beleive and the gentiles when they believe? not a part of the body?
 

Eventide

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So.. anyone know anything about the future ?

Isn't that what the Spirit of God does.. Shows us the things to come ?
 

Eventide

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Thy Kingdom come...

Here's an interesting one..

When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:

And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:

And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left.

Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world...
 

smaller

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YES! How is it that you can so blatantly call me "blind" for assuming Jesus was speaking to real, physical people standing right in front of Him
Why would that be any kind of 'cause' to disregard His Words stormcrow? You try this slant continually and it is in fact quite ridiculous.

And why don't you put up the 'few' proof texts shown for this matter and respond rather than make an assertion that does not stand in the light of Jesus' facts?



when the very passage from which Matthew 16:27-28 is drawn starts with the words, "THEN JESUS SAID TO HIS DISCIPLES!" I
What? You now want to claim that Jesus no longer has disciples? Again, if your measure is the case we have no need to listen to Jesus or the Apostles whatsoever unless He/they show up to speak to us 'personally.'

How credible is that view? About zero in most eyes.

2 Timothy 3:16
All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

If your doctrine is that scripture is eliminated on the basis that it is only valid to 'whom' it was spoken, then the Apostle was lying.
You ascribe malice to people where there is none and then do the very thing of which you accuse others????
Malice? Nice try.


s
 
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jasoncran

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ad 70 is the future to john when he wrote revalation.im not saying its all fulfilled just that it is locally speaking to the nation of isreal on her judgements on a great deal
tell me eventide.will jesus visit egypt on a cloud?
 

Eventide

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From the Apostle Peter..

Here's another simple one.. written in plain English :) for all to see its future context..

This second epistle, beloved, I now write unto you; in both which I stir up your pure minds by way of remembrance: that ye may be mindful of the words which were spoken before by the holy prophets, and of the commandment of us the apostles of the Lord and Saviour:

Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts, and saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation.

For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water: whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished:

But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.

But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.


See how simple it is when you simply read the word of God in its context..
 

reba

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But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.
Question how many take this to be literal?


Is this verse just as/or not literal?

Psa_50:10 For every beast of the forest is mine, and the cattle upon a thousand hills.
 

Eventide

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IMO it's infinitely beyond literal.. it's living and powerful and miraculous in its ability to speak to our heart and mind concerning the truth.

That aside... is there clear biblical precedent that a DAY is a thousand years with God, in the scriptures..

Without a doubt..

Adam died in that DAY... and it was 900 and something years AFTER.

Once again.. we can ignore the words of the prophets and the Apostles.. or we can simply embrace them and receive them for what they are in their miraculous ability to reveal the truth.
 

jasoncran

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that is process. im not going to defend rebas position but justin martyr and the early church did beleive that the millenium(chialism) was before the judgement of men. not a part of it.
 

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