The Lord shows Abraham the future...

[reba]

Enough... How many threads do we want closed?.... Stop the bickering.. Forum's staff

 

[Eventide]

Why do you think it is... that those who claim that the things which shall be hereafter all happened in 70AD... Never actually explain when ANY of these things happened ?

Staggering events from Rev 4 through Rev 20...

Yep.. 70AD.. That's all you need to know... Next..

Simply because they themselves KNOW beyond a shadow of a doubt how absolutely absurd that is..

That's why..

 

[Stormcrow]

...those who claim that the things which shall be hereafter all happened in 70AD... Never actually explain when these ANY of these things happened ?

Staggering events from Rev 4 through Rev 20...

This is patently untrue, as you were shown just one (of many) examples of fulfillment here in your closed thread.

Let's revisit it, shall we???

The assertion has been made that everything after Revelation 4 is yet future to us. I am about to demonstrate how that is patently untrue!

When the seven peals of thunder had spoken, I was about to write; and I heard a voice from heaven saying, "Seal up the things which the seven peals of thunder have spoken and do not write them." Then the angel whom I saw standing on the sea and on the land lifted up his right hand to heaven, and swore by Him who lives forever and ever, WHO CREATED HEAVEN AND THE THINGS IN IT, AND THE EARTH AND THE THINGS IN IT, AND THE SEA AND THE THINGS IN IT, that there will be delay no longer, but in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he is about to sound, then the mystery of God is finished, as He preached to His servants the prophets. Revelation 10:4-7 (NASB)

What is this "mystery of God" that was hidden? Is it future or past? According to some, this is yet a future event as is indicated by the vast amount of speculation that has surrounded the "seven peals of thunder."

The truth is this was fulfilled with the coming of the gospel of Christ!

Yet we do speak wisdom among those who are mature; a wisdom, however, not of this age nor of the rulers of this age, who are passing away; but we speak God's wisdom in a mystery, the hidden wisdom which God predestined before the ages to our glory; the wisdom which none of the rulers of this age has understood; for if they had understood it they would not have crucified the Lord of glory; 1 Corinthians 2:6-8 (NASB)

And what is that mystery???

By referring to this, when you read you can understand my insight into the mystery of Christ, which in other generations was not made known to the sons of men, as it has now been revealed to His holy apostles and prophets in the Spirit; to be specific, that the Gentiles are fellow heirs and fellow members of the body, and fellow partakers of the promise in Christ Jesus through the gospel, Ephesians 3:4-6 (NASB)

This mystery - the gospel of Christ - was hidden from the prophets and the Jews so that the Gentiles could be brought into fellowship with God through the gospel!!!

For I do not want you, brethren, to be uninformed of this mystery—so that you will not be wise in your own estimation—that a partial hardening has happened to Israel until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in; Romans 11:25 (NASB)

Then the seventh angel sounded; and there were loud voices in heaven, saying, "The kingdom of the world has become the kingdom of our Lord and of His Christ; and He will reign forever and ever." Revelation 11:15 (NASB)

To recap: when the voice of the seventh angel was about to sound, the mystery of the gospel was made known to the apostles who then spread it throughout the known world. (Romans 1:8, 16:25-27; Colossians 1:5-6, 23)

"This gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all the nations, and then the end will come. Matthew 24:14 (NASB)

When the voice of the seventh angel sounded, the judgment of Jerusalem began:

And the twenty-four elders, who sit on their thrones before God, fell on their faces and worshiped God, saying, "We give You thanks, O Lord God, the Almighty, who are and who were, because You have taken Your great power and have begun to reign. "And the nations were enraged, and Your wrath came, and the time came for the dead to be judged, and the time to reward Your bond-servants the prophets and the saints and those who fear Your name, the small and the great, and to destroy those who destroy the earth [literally: "land", as in the Holy Land. See Zechariah 12:10-14]." Revelation 11:16-18 (NASB)

FULFILLED!

 

[Eventide]

Why, because you say so..?

When... Tell us specifics..

When did the two witnesses prophecy ?

How about Rev 7... When were the 144000 Israelites sealed with the seal of God in their forehead ?

How about Rev 12 and the woman being with child and protected in the wilderness for 42 months..?

When did that happen ?

How about the beast of the sea and the beast of the earth in Rev 13 who caused all both small and great, rich and poor, slave and free.. To worship the beast and his image..

When did that happen.. ?

When was the marriage of the Lamb to His wife.. ?

When did the first resurrection take place ?

It's obvious to anyone except those who can't see past 70AD, that this is all sheer nonsense..

 

[Eventide]

This is the typical nonsense which arises from taking the word of God from its own context.. The things which shall be here after.. And applying them to the present.. To the things which are..

It's really that simple..

They're the things which shall be hereafter for a good reason..

 

[Eventide]

Because Revelation 4-20 describes the Day of The Lord in living and powerful, miraculous detail..

And the church of God should know better than to be deceived by those who do say that THAT DAY has already come or that it's presently here..

 

[Eventide]

If we think in terms of the OP and Abraham (the father of our faith).. And how that The Lord showed him things to come hundreds of years in advance..

Then why would that not be true today of believers..?

Why would the Christian today have absolutely no understanding of what's to come ?

Abraham did.. But the Christian doesn't know a thing that is to come ?

 

[Eventide]

Odd isn't it.. Knowing that the Holy Spirit of God shows us things to come... And yet nobody knows what is to come..

 

[Stormcrow]

It's obvious to anyone except those who can't see past 70AD, that this is all sheer nonsense..

Which of the verses I cited do you allege to be "sheer nonsense"?

 

[Stormcrow]

Because Revelation 4-20 describes the Day of The Lord in living and powerful, miraculous detail.

Look through the Bible: every "day of the Lord" is a "day" of judgment and wrath. The day of the Lord that came upon Jerusalem in 70 AD is no different.

And everything from Revelation 1 to Revelation 22 is covered by these words:

And he said to me, "These words are faithful and true"; and the Lord, the God of the spirits of the prophets, sent His angel to show to His bond-servants the things which must soon take place. Revelation 22:6 (NASB)
And he *said to me, "Do not seal up the words of the prophecy of this book [the WHOLE book], for the time is near. Revelation 22:10 (NASB)

Things which "are" refer to things things that were happening as John penned these words. Things "hereafter" WERE the things which must SOON take place: those things which were "at hand!"

As Revelation was written in late 68 or 69 AD, SOON was within 2 years, NOT MORE THAN 2,000!!!

To ignore the context of these words is to take away from the book of Revelation, something even the people to whom John was writing knew better than to do!

 

[Eventide]

What people actually IGNORE is that which the Apostle to the GENTILES warned them to NOT be ignorant of.. lest they become wise in their own conceits..

Another things which many IGNORE is that a DAY with the Lord is as a thousand years and a thousand years are as one DAY..

Another thing which many IGNORE today is the warning to not be DECEIVED by those who SAY that the Day of the Lord is at hand..

There are all kinds of things which are ignored today and the Apostle to the circumcision tells us that it's no accident..

 

[Eventide]

And once again..

Don't people find it very strange that these same people can't tell you a single event which is to come.. ? Isn't that strange when the Spirit of God shows us things to come.. Isn't it strange that Abram knew the future hundreds of years in advance and these don't know of a single thing concerning the future..?

 

[Eventide]

And not only that.. it's just as strange that these same people can't explain WHEN any of these things actually did happen.. they expect you to accept that all these things happened in 70AD and yet can't explain WHEN any of it happened..?

Just ASK THEM to give you the DETAILS of WHEN all these things took place.. see what happens..

 

[Eventide]

And then they even have the audacity to say that anyone who rests upon the future promises of God rests upon a FALSE HOPE... and that doesn't bother me..

At least there IS HOPE for some.. and we patiently WAIT for it..

WAIT FOR IT....

It's coming.. a biblical certainly.. the Day of the Lord, the Day of Jesus Christ.. which shall come as a thief in the night and as travail upon a woman with child.

 

[Eventide]

Maybe we should all just accept profane babblings and embrace the lies of those who say that the resurrection is past already, and that the Lord has already come with thousands upon thousands of His saints.. what does it matter if we're deceived into thinking that that Day has already come..?

What difference does it make if we ignore the mystery pertaining to Israel and become wise in our own conceits..

Who cares about that ?

What could the harm be to the body of Christ in that.. ?

To me it seems as though many of these enormous things are considered trivial.. as if it's not a problem... the only problem will actually be those standing upon the promises of God and speaking against the lies of the deceivers.. against the rulers of the darkness of this world..

We can't have that.. can we..?

 

[Eventide]

The city of the Great King...

Have at it folks..

Maybe I'll stop in from time to time to read all the wondrous commentary about the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob and how that the ultimate demonstration of His infinite love and grace was all finalized in the destruction of Jerusalem.. in 70AD.

 

[Eventide]

For in the volume of the book it is written of Me...

Don't ever.. ever forget... that the story has already been told from beginning to end in countless, miraculous, living and powerful detail..

Even in simple little stories like those concerning Abraham, or Isaac.. or Jacob, or Joseph.. or David.. or Solomon.. or countless other OT patriarchs.. all written down in the ancient texts of the OT.

How about that story of Joseph... did He come and destroy his brethren in the end.. even though they most certainly would have deserved that.. having sold him to the Gentiles and leaving him for dead... many years before..

Was that how the story ended.. Joseph coming and destroying his brethren.. ?

We know better.. simply because we know the story..

We know that his brethren come to HIM unknowingly in their deepest time of need.. and we know that they're led to repentance and that Joseph REVEALS HIMSELF to them... and there is mourning.. the staggering realization of the truth.. and Jacob learns late in his life that the son of his old age is not only alive.. but ruler over all..

That's as living and powerful and miraculous as it was the day it was scripted for us into the ancient texts of the OT.

 

[Stormcrow]

Here's a promise made to the disciples while Christ still lived on the earth:

"For the Son of Man is going to come in the glory of His Father with His angels, and WILL THEN REPAY EVERY MAN ACCORDING TO HIS DEEDS. "Truly I say to you, there are some of those who are standing here who will not taste death until they see the Son of Man coming in His kingdom." Matthew 16:27-28 (NASB)

Christ coming in the glory of the Father with His angels to repay every man according to his deeds while some of them still lived!!!

Get it??? Christ made a promise to come again while some of them still lived! Did He keep it???

If not, what does that make Him?

If so, why don't people believe Him???

Hmmmm???

 

[Stormcrow]

If futurism is true, Christ didn't keep His promise to the apostles. If He didn't keep that one, how many others has He failed to keep?

Beliefs have consequences.

 

[smaller]

Here's a promise made to the disciples while Christ still lived on the earth:

"For the Son of Man is going to come in the glory of His Father with His angels, and WILL THEN REPAY EVERY MAN ACCORDING TO HIS DEEDS. "Truly I say to you, there are some of those who are standing here who will not taste death until they see the Son of Man coming in His kingdom." Matthew 16:27-28 (NASB)

Christ coming in the glory of the Father with His angels to repay every man according to his deeds while some of them still lived!!!

Get it??? Christ made a promise to come again while some of them still lived! Did He keep it???

If not, what does that make Him?

If so, why don't people believe Him???

Hmmmm???

Or hmmmm? Maybe 'stormcrow' only thinks those 'standing there' had to be PEOPLE.

You and I have had this conversation prior. MANY DEVILS were in the people of Israel, even in DISCIPLES such as Judas.

To say 'those standing there' have to be the physical people only is blind sight on your part, and at this point failure to consider other 'parties' would appear 'intentional' avoidance on your part. Which is understandable when 'people' get too much 'time and effort' invested in certain slants.

s