When does God put souls into bodies?

[FreeGrace]

Most of Christianity believes that the moment of conception is when a human being is created, body and soul.

However, from Gen 2:7, we see that God FIRST prepared a body "from the dust of the ground", BEFORE He breathed into the nostrils the "breath of life", or soul. Only then did "man become a living being". So, for the first Adam, the order was prepare a body, and then put the soul into the body, creating a living being.

Also, we know from Heb 10:5 that God prepared a body for the Son of God. So, for the Last Adam, the order was prepare a body for His Son. Obviously God didn't create a soul for His Son, since His Son has always existed. But Heb 10:5 does indicate that a body was prepared for Him.

So it would appear that God's order is to prepare a body before the soul is placed into the body.

Can anyone show from Scripture that God's order is REVERSED for everyone else, if in fact the soul is created at conception?

 

[gr8grace3]

Most of Christianity believes that the moment of conception is when a human being is created, body and soul.

However, from Gen 2:7, we see that God FIRST prepared a body "from the dust of the ground", BEFORE He breathed into the nostrils the "breath of life", or soul. Only then did "man become a living being". So, for the first Adam, the order was prepare a body, and then put the soul into the body, creating a living being.

Also, we know from Heb 10:5 that God prepared a body for the Son of God. So, for the Last Adam, the order was prepare a body for His Son. Obviously God didn't create a soul for His Son, since His Son has always existed. But Heb 10:5 does indicate that a body was prepared for Him.

So it would appear that God's order is to prepare a body before the soul is placed into the body.

Can anyone show from Scripture that God's order is REVERSED for everyone else, if in fact the soul is created at conception?

Your cruisin for a bruisin on this one Brother!

But I agree.
Job 31:15~~New American Standard Bible
"Did not He who made me in the womb make him, And the same one fashion us in the womb?

Your last sentence: Would you say "imputed" instead of created? Maybe you can correct me if I am wrong.

I do believe that the soul is imputed at birth upon the first breath of air and that life is no longer just an extension of the mothers life. But what about that soul? Was it created at that moment or was a soul imputed to that body that had been created already?

 

[Gary]

So it would appear that God's order is to prepare a body before the soul is placed into the body.

Common sense will tell you, if you want to put a soul into a body you need the body first.


What is God's definition of a body? Is it physical or spiritual?

I mean if life begins at conception...

.

 

[FreeGrace]

Your cruisin for a bruisin on this one Brother!

But I agree.

Thanks!!

Job 31:15~~New American Standard Bible
"Did not He who made me in the womb make him, And the same one fashion us in the womb?

Your last sentence: Would you say "imputed" instead of created? Maybe you can correct me if I am wrong.

I did mean "create" as God creates all souls. They are created (barah) out of nothing. The body is made out of existing materials. Consider Gen 1:26. It speaks of biological life, or that which came from the dust of the ground. The word used is "asah", which is making something from existing materials, as we see in Gen 2:7.

However, Gen 1:27 is a bit different, in that Moses used "barah" which is to create out of nothing. Which is the soul.

I do believe that the soul is imputed at birth upon the first breath of air and that life is no longer just an extension of the mothers life. But what about that soul? Was it created at that moment or was a soul imputed to that body that had been created already?

OK, good question. The Bible doesn't tell us when God creates souls. I doubt that there is "soul bank" in heaven that He goes to when a baby is about to be born. I do agree that the soul is imputed at or very near the time of birth. ;)

 

[FreeGrace]

Common sense will tell you, if you want to put a soul into a body you need the body first.


What is God's definition of a body? Is it physical or spiritual?

I mean if life begins at conception....

Gen 2:7 indicates that God made from the dust of the ground a human body, otherwise how could He have breathed into "nostrils" the breath of life. iow, there had to be nostrils for Gen 2:7 to be true. Therefore, God prepared a fully human developed body for the soul that He imputed to that body.

I think your question suggests "what is life?" According to Gen 2:7, I believe there are 2 lives, which we need to keep in mind. First, there is biological life, which all animals have, and basically share with humanity. By that, I mean animals have the same biological systems that man has: heart, brain, muscles, nerves, organs, etc. And the physiology is quite similar. But, unlike any animal, man has a soul. Which makes him unique from animals, and what liberals don't typically appreciate.

So, the first Adam "became a living being" only AFTER God formed the body from the dust of the ground, and then imputed a soul into that body. And, per James 2:26, when the soul leaves the body, the body is dead. The human has "left the building".

We know that our physical bodies will return to the dust, per Gen 3:19. And we know that we will receive new bodies at the resurrection, per 1 Cor 15.

The real person is the immaterial.

 

[Gary]

And we know that we will receive new bodies at the resurrection, per 1 Cor 15.

Until that time, where do the souls of the deceased reside? I mean if a soul needs a body....

 

[chessman]

We know that our physical bodies will return to the dust, per Gen 3:19. And we know that we will receive new bodies at the resurrection, per 1 Cor 15.

Genesis 4:1 (LEB) Now Adam knew Eve his wife, and she conceived and bore Cain. And she said, “I have given birth to a man with the help of Yahweh.”​

My point is, somewhere in between the time of her conception (she conceived via ... umm, Adam's contribution) and her giving birth (I have given birth) God helped the process as per Job 30:15 and Psalm 139:13.

Note also that birth takes place prior to a babies first breath. She gave birth to a man, not to something waiting for it's first breath to become a man.

Also, isn't the Bible amazing? Conception occurs quite literally with the fertilization of a woman's egg when the sperm enters through the outer membrane of her egg (she conceived) versus the other way around (the egg entering the sperm). I mean theoretically, someone without the aid of a microscope and biology at the microscopic level, might have 'guessed' how this happens and guessed wrong. Unless of course God wrote the Bible.

 

[dianegcook]

Jer.1:5
Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee, and before thou camest forth out of the womb I sanctified thee, and I ordained thee a prophet unto the nations.

As I have stated before, I believe we all were (before flesh ) in the spirit.

Why did God hate Esau before he was born in the flesh?
ROM,9:13
I know He is all knowing, but I believe also, He knew him before this earthage.
That is why also He has mercy on whom He wants mercy.

 

[gr8grace3]

Until that time, where do the souls of the deceased reside? I mean if a soul needs a body....

In the interim Body.
5:1 For we know that if the earthly tent which is our house is torn down, we have a building from God, a house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens. 5:2 For indeed in this house we groan, longing to be clothed with our dwelling from heaven, 5:3 inasmuch as we, having put it on, will not be found naked. 5:4 For indeed while we are in this tent, we groan, being burdened, because we do not want to be unclothed but to be clothed, so that what is mortal will be swallowed up by life. 5:5 Now He who prepared us for this very purpose is God, who gave to us the Spirit as a pledge. 5:6 ¶ Therefore, being always of good courage, and knowing that while we are at home in the body we are absent from the Lord-- 5:7 for we walk by faith, not by sight-- 5:8 we are of good courage, I say, and prefer rather to be absent from the body and to be at home with the Lord.

This is while we wait for our resurrection body.

(ToS 2.7 states "All Bible verses and passages must be referenced (NASB, NIV, etc.) unless it is public domain like the KJV, YLT, etc." This means you have to include the book of the bible you are quoting along with the version you are quoting. A chapter and verse alone do not satisfy this rule. Obadiah)

 

[FreeGrace]

(Post removed. A&T Guidelines state in part: "Subsequent opposing responses should include references to supportive scripture relevant to the thread and offer explanation for the contrary understanding." Obadiah)

 

[FreeGrace]

Genesis 4:1 (LEB) Now Adam knew Eve his wife, and she conceived and bore Cain. And she said, “I have given birth to a man with the help of Yahweh.”​

My point is, somewhere in between the time of her conception (she conceived via ... umm, Adam's contribution) and her giving birth (I have given birth) God helped the process as per Job 30:15 and Psalm 139:13.

Note also that birth takes place prior to a babies first breath. She gave birth to a man, not to something waiting for it's first breath to become a man.

Also, isn't the Bible amazing? Conception occurs quite literally with the fertilization of a woman's egg when the sperm enters through the outer membrane of her egg (she conceived) versus the other way around (the egg entering the sperm). I mean theoretically, someone without the aid of a microscope and biology at the microscopic level, might have 'guessed' how this happens and guessed wrong. Unless of course God wrote the Bible.

Yes, the Bible is amazing! When do you think God imputes the soul to the body?

 

[Deborah13]

Gen 2:7 indicates that God made from the dust of the ground a human body, otherwise how could He have breathed into "nostrils" the breath of life. iow, there had to be nostrils for Gen 2:7 to be true. Therefore, God prepared a fully human developed body for the soul that He imputed to that body.

I think your question suggests "what is life?" According to Gen 2:7, I believe there are 2 lives, which we need to keep in mind. First, there is biological life, which all animals have, and basically share with humanity. By that, I mean animals have the same biological systems that man has: heart, brain, muscles, nerves, organs, etc. And the physiology is quite similar. But, unlike any animal, man has a soul. Which makes him unique from animals, and what liberals don't typically appreciate.

All God's creatures are living souls. H5315 - nephesh H2416 - living

Gen 1:20 And God saith, `Let the waters teem with the teeming living H2416 creature H5315, and fowl let fly on the earth on the face of the expanse of the heavens.'
Gen 2:7 And Yehovah God formeth the man--dust from the ground, and breatheth into his nostrils breath of life, and the man becometh a living H2416 creature.H5315

 

[chessman]

Yes, the Bible is amazing! When do you think God imputes the soul to the body?

sometime between conception and birth. I'd guess very, very early after conception. Probably about the time the child's own blood begins to be produced within that child. But I don't know. I can't it remember myself.

I've often wondered what it would be like to poof, come into existence. Lucklily we ease into it with His help.

 

[LovethroughDove]

The moment you take your first breath.

Genesis 2:7 breathed into his nostrils the breath of life

 

[Sinthesis]

I'm not sure we can know, so it's probably best to error on the side of caution.

 

[FreeGrace]

All God's creatures are living souls. H5315 - nephesh H2416 - living

Does this mean that animals, fish, birds, insects have souls too?

Gen 1:20 And God saith, `Let the waters teem with the teeming living H2416 creature H5315, and fowl let fly on the earth on the face of the expanse of the heavens.'
Gen 2:7 And Yehovah God formeth the man--dust from the ground, and breatheth into his nostrils breath of life, and the man becometh a living H2416 creature.H5315

This all refers to the fact of biological life. Not soul life.

If there is a verse about God breathing the neshemah of life into the nostrils of some animals, fish, birds, or insects, you'd have a point.

 

[FreeGrace]

I said this:
"When do you think God imputes the soul to the body?"

sometime between conception and birth. I'd guess very, very early after conception.

Based on what, specifically? Especially since God's ORDER for the first and Last Adam was to prepare a body BEFORE He imputed the soul.

Probably about the time the child's own blood begins to be produced within that child. But I don't know. I can't it remember myself.

Please explain what blood has to do with this. Thinking of Lev 17:11?
‘For the life of the flesh is in the blood, and I have given it to you on the altar to make atonement for your souls; for it is the blood by reason of the life that makes atonement.’

This verse refers to the blood of animals, who have no soul.

 

[FreeGrace]

The moment you take your first breath.

Genesis 2:7 breathed into his nostrils the breath of life

Kinda makes sense. And follows Gen 2:7.

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

You bring all this up but don't mention abortion.
If life isn't until we breathe, then what about abortion?
Are you saying it is okay because they are not yet living souls?
Leviticus 17:11; "for the life of a creature is in the blood...".
Are we not creatures?
Someone needs to rethink things.

 

[FreeGrace]

You bring all this up but don't mention abortion.
If life isn't until we breathe, then what about abortion?
Are you saying it is okay because they are not yet living souls?

Absolutely not!! Now that we've seen abortion for several decades, we have some data. And the data shows that abortion can have lasting very damaging emotional and psychological scars on the mother to be.

Leviticus 17:11; "for the life of a creature is in the blood...".
Are we not creatures?
Someone needs to rethink things.

Lev 17:11 is about animals. Do you consider human beings to be animals? If so, they you have a point. I don't consider humans to be animals, as does the secularist humanist. Humans have souls. There is no evidence that animals have souls.

I agee that someone needs to rethink things. ;)