When does God put souls into bodies?

[gr8grace3]

Does this mean that animals, fish, birds, insects have souls too?


This all refers to the fact of biological life. Not soul life.

If there is a verse about God breathing the neshemah of life into the nostrils of some animals, fish, birds, or insects, you'd have a point.

Have you ever looked into the medical definition of the "very first breath we take?" In the medical field they say it is the deepest breath that we ever take and it uses 100% of our lungs and that first breath is never truly exhaled until we die. Because after the first breath we never again use 100% of our lungs. Interesting,huh?

 

[Deborah13]

Does this mean that animals, fish, birds, insects have souls too?

That is what the scripture says. They become a living nephesh (soul).

This all refers to the fact of biological life. Not soul life.

If there is a verse about God breathing the neshemah of life into the nostrils of some animals, fish, birds, or insects, you'd have a point.

To me words have meaning in their context.
Gen 2:7 And Yehovah God formeth the man--dust from the ground, and breatheth into his nostrils breath [neshsmah] of life [chay], and the man becometh a living creature [nephesh].

The point is not about nostrils the point is that it is God who gives life to all living creatures and that when He does that all creatures become living souls.
What is the difference, besides nostrils, that you see in the two scriptures I quoted. What is the difference in the "living souls"? That is what we are discussing right? When does one become a living soul?

 

[Deborah13]

Absolutely not!! Now that we've seen abortion for several decades, we have some data. And the data shows that abortion can have lasting very damaging emotional and psychological scars on the mother to be.


Lev 17:11 is about animals. Do you consider human beings to be animals? If so, they you have a point. I don't consider humans to be animals, as does the secularist humanist. Humans have souls. There is no evidence that animals have souls.

I agee that someone needs to rethink things. ;)

Not animal, creature. One formed by God and given life by God.
2Co 5:17 so that if any one is in Christ-- he is a new creature; the old things did pass away, lo, become new have the all things.
G2937 - formation from G2936 - fabrication
All animal and human are creatures, created by God and given life by God.

If God says all His creatures have souls then they have souls. So maybe it's our understanding of soul that is not correct, in the context of these scriptures.
But that really has very little to do with your OP question of when does one become a living soul?

 

[FreeGrace]

Have you ever looked into the medical definition of the "very first breath we take?" In the medical field they say it is the deepest breath that we ever take and it uses 100% of our lungs and that first breath is never truly exhaled until we die. Because after the first breath we never again use 100% of our lungs. Interesting,huh?

Didn't know that! Wow.

 

[FreeGrace]

That is what the scripture says. They become a living nephesh (soul).

So, where do animals souls go after they leave the body?

To me words have meaning in their context.
Gen 2:7 And Yehovah God formeth the man--dust from the ground, and breatheth into his nostrils breath [neshsmah] of life [chay], and the man becometh a living creature [nephesh].

nephesh
neh'-fesh

From H5314 ; properly a breathing creature, that is, animal or(abstractly) vitality; used very widely in a literal, accommodated orfigurative sense (bodily or mental):—any, appetite, beast, body,breath, creature, X dead (-ly), desire, X [dis-] contented, X fish,ghost, + greedy, he, heart (-y), (hath, X jeopardy of) life (X injeopardy), lust, man, me, mind, mortality, one, own, person,pleasure, (her-, him-, my-, thy-) self, them (your) -selves, + slay,soul, + tablet, they, thing, (X she) will, X would have it.

Animals don't have souls. Souls are what differentiates animals from humans.

The point is not about nostrils the point is that it is God who gives life to all living creatures and that when He does that all creatures become living souls.

No. God gives biological life to every living thing, and souls to humans.

What is the difference, besides nostrils, that you see in the two scriptures I quoted.

I wasn't emphasizing nostrils, but noting that God didn't impute the soul until the body was formed, or prepared for the soul.

What is the difference in the "living souls"? That is what we are discussing right?

I have no idea what you mean by your question.

When does one become a living soul?

When God creates the soul.

I don't accept "creature" for Gen 2:7. What translation uses that word?

KJV says "living soul", and the NASB says "living being".

I am surprised that some think animals have souls. The soul is the immaterial part of man that includes his intellect, which reasons and thinks. Man's soul will exist eternally, either with God or apart from God.

 

[FreeGrace]

All animal and human are creatures, created by God and given life by God.

The difference between animals and man is that man has a soul.

If God says all His creatures have souls then they have souls.

God never said that about any animals. Please review all of Genesis 1 and tell me that God put a soul into any animal BEFORE He noted that they were "living beings", or "living souls".

So maybe it's our understanding of soul that is not correct, in the context of these scriptures.
But that really has very little to do with your OP question of when does one become a living soul?

So, when does God put the soul into the human tissue?

 

[chessman]

As I have stated before, I believe we all were (before flesh ) in the spirit.

The problem is, neither of the verses you quoted support this idea (nor any other verse).

Jer.1:5
Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee, and before thou camest forth out of the womb I sanctified thee, and I ordained thee a prophet unto the nations.

I know He is all knowing

Right. God knows all things. This would include God knowing the winning lottery numbers for this Saturday night. Does that mean that the winning lottery numbers for Saturday night existed before 'in the spirit'? Umm, no. Nor does Jer 1:5 say anything about existing in spirit prior to conception. Not in any real sense (spiritually or fleshly) other than in the mind of God, I suppose.

Certainly Adam nor any other man existed in the LDS sense as in running around in other bodies on another planet in another solar system, then falling to Earth.

 

[jasonc]

All God's creatures are living souls. H5315 - nephesh H2416 - living

Gen 1:20 And God saith, `Let the waters teem with the teeming living H2416 creature H5315, and fowl let fly on the earth on the face of the expanse of the heavens.'
Gen 2:7 And Yehovah God formeth the man--dust from the ground, and breatheth into his nostrils breath of life, and the man becometh a living H2416 creature.H5315

an animal isn't a nephesh Chaya.

 

[Deborah13]

You bring all this up but don't mention abortion.
If life isn't until we breathe, then what about abortion?
Are you saying it is okay because they are not yet living souls?
Leviticus 17:11; "for the life of a creature is in the blood...".
Are we not creatures?
Someone needs to rethink things.

I would agree with you that this scripture is important.
Lev 17:11 for the life of the flesh is in the blood, and I have given it to you on the altar, to make atonement for your souls; for it is the blood which maketh atonement for the soul.
I get from this scripture that any creature that has blood, it's blood carries the things necessarily to sustain it's life.
The idea of the atonement as a life taken for a life spared. The innocent ones life blood for the life blood of the guilty.

It's no little thing to take the life of any one of God's creatures.

 

[jasonc]

I would agree with you that this scripture is important.
Lev 17:11 for the life of the flesh is in the blood, and I have given it to you on the altar, to make atonement for your souls; for it is the blood which maketh atonement for the soul.
I get from this scripture that any creature that has blood, it's blood carries the things necessarily to sustain it's life.
The idea of the atonement as a life taken for a life spared. The innocent ones life blood for the life blood of the guilty.

It's no little thing to take the life of any one of God's creatures.

somebody has been reading jewish thought lately.

 

[chessman]

Based on what, specifically?

Gen 4:1 and Job 30:15 and Psalm 139:13.

Genesis 4:1 Now Adam knew Eve his wife, and she conceived and bore Cain. And she said, “I have given birth to ___?____.​

Especially since God's ORDER for the first and Last Adam was to prepare a body BEFORE He imputed the soul.

Neither you nor I were created like either of them were.

That's why I looked at the first born via Eve. She gave birth to a man, not something else waiting on air for it's lungs. Cain was a man at birth prior to his first breath of air.

Logic exercise: suppose a baby was birthed and still attached to it's mother's umbilical cord and water sack, never taking a breath of air in it's lungs for minutes, hours, days, whatever. Isn't it still a human with a soul?

http://www.lifenews.com/2013/04/03/doc-delivers-baby-still-in-amniotic-sac-would-abortion-be-ok/

And if you don't like that, what about John the Baptist? Did he not kick in his mother's womb with the Bible calling him John already?

 

[jasonc]

she is taking that literaly. the idea of breathe from god is well another whole thread. I will says this what little of that I have heard about implies that when God spoke its again to him breathing, and moving things with his Spirit or commanding.

 

[Deborah13]

So, where do animals souls go after they leave the body?


nephesh
neh'-fesh

From H5314 ; properly a breathing creature, that is, animal or(abstractly) vitality; used very widely in a literal, accommodated orfigurative sense (bodily or mental):—any, appetite, beast, body,breath, creature, X dead (-ly), desire, X [dis-] contented, X fish,ghost, + greedy, he, heart (-y), (hath, X jeopardy of) life (X injeopardy), lust, man, me, mind, mortality, one, own, person,pleasure, (her-, him-, my-, thy-) self, them (your) -selves, + slay,soul, + tablet, they, thing, (X she) will, X would have it.

Animals don't have souls. Souls are what differentiates animals from humans.

The definition above that you posted says "a breathing creature, that is, animal or (abstractly) vitality; and all the things that are associated with that in the context of the scripture that it is used in.

No. God gives biological life to every living thing, and souls to humans.
I wasn't emphasizing nostrils, but noting that God didn't impute the soul until the body was formed, or prepared for the soul.
I have no idea what you mean by your question.
When God creates the soul.

I don't accept "creature" for Gen 2:7. What translation uses that word?[/quote]
Young's Literal Translation - from the as Greek MSS that the KJV uses.

KJV says "living soul", and the NASB says "living being".

From Strong's, that you posted, being or creature works just fine.

I am surprised that some think animals have souls. The soul is the immaterial part of man that includes his intellect, which reasons and thinks. Man's soul will exist eternally, either with God or apart from God.

I agree that the soul is an immaterial part of man.

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

Absolutely not!! Now that we've seen abortion for several decades, we have some data. And the data shows that abortion can have lasting very damaging emotional and psychological scars on the mother to be.


Lev 17:11 is about animals. Do you consider human beings to be animals? If so, they you have a point. I don't consider humans to be animals, as does the secularist humanist. Humans have souls. There is no evidence that animals have souls.

I agee that someone needs to rethink things. ;)

Are you serious?
The only thing wrong with abortion is that it damages the mother to be?
Abortion has nothing to do with the child, but only the mother?
You need to explain yourself.
This is more important than anything else you've said.

 

[Deborah13]

The difference between animals and man is that man has a soul.
God never said that about any animals. Please review all of Genesis 1 and tell me that God put a soul into any animal BEFORE He noted that they were "living beings", or "living souls".
So, when does God put the soul into the human tissue?

Where does this scripture say God PUT a soul in man? It says man Became a living soul (creature) after God breathed the breath of life into his body.
Gen 2:7 And Yehovah God formeth the man--dust from the ground, and breatheth into his nostrils breath of life, and the man becometh a living creature.
I would say that what makes man different from God's other creatures is.....
Gen 1:27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.

 

[Deborah13]

an animal isn't a nephesh Chaya.

Why not, if God says it is in Gen. 1:20?

she is taking that literaly. the idea of breathe from god is well another whole thread. I will says this what little of that I have heard about implies that when God spoke its again to him breathing, and moving things with his Spirit or commanding.

I believe so to. His breath as a blast of air or wind, yes Spirit [Ruach] moving as it moved over the face of the waters.
Job 27:3 All the while my breath is in me, and the spirit [ruach] of God is in my nostrils;

Forgot this...
Gen 7:21 And all flesh died that moved upon the earth, both of fowl, and of cattle, and of beast, and of every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth, and every man:
Gen 7:22 All in whose nostrils was the breath [neshamah ruach] of life, of all that was in the dry land, died.

 

[JLB]

Most of Christianity believes that the moment of conception is when a human being is created, body and soul.

However, from Gen 2:7, we see that God FIRST prepared a body "from the dust of the ground", BEFORE He breathed into the nostrils the "breath of life", or soul. Only then did "man become a living being". So, for the first Adam, the order was prepare a body, and then put the soul into the body, creating a living being.

Also, we know from Heb 10:5 that God prepared a body for the Son of God. So, for the Last Adam, the order was prepare a body for His Son. Obviously God didn't create a soul for His Son, since His Son has always existed. But Heb 10:5 does indicate that a body was prepared for Him.

So it would appear that God's order is to prepare a body before the soul is placed into the body.

Can anyone show from Scripture that God's order is REVERSED for everyone else, if in fact the soul is created at conception?

Adam and Jesus were both sons of God, which means they were created or begotten directly by God.

Everyone else was born through the process of childbirth.

So the principle of Genesis 2:7 would not apply to everyone else, unless you have a scripture that says every human being was created from the dust of the ground by God himself, and then God breathed into them, which would mean that all mankind are sons of God.


JLB

 

[Fish Catcher Jim]

Most of Christianity believes that the moment of conception is when a human being is created, body and soul.

However, from Gen 2:7, we see that God FIRST prepared a body "from the dust of the ground", BEFORE He breathed into the nostrils the "breath of life", or soul. Only then did "man become a living being". So, for the first Adam, the order was prepare a body, and then put the soul into the body, creating a living being.

Also, we know from Heb 10:5 that God prepared a body for the Son of God. So, for the Last Adam, the order was prepare a body for His Son. Obviously God didn't create a soul for His Son, since His Son has always existed. But Heb 10:5 does indicate that a body was prepared for Him.

So it would appear that God's order is to prepare a body before the soul is placed into the body.

Can anyone show from Scripture that God's order is REVERSED for everyone else, if in fact the soul is created at conception?

Seeing how the SOUL is the MIND and WILL and EMOTION
What is the debate ?

 

[Fish Catcher Jim]

You bring all this up but don't mention abortion.
If life isn't until we breathe, then what about abortion?
Are you saying it is okay because they are not yet living souls?
Leviticus 17:11; "for the life of a creature is in the blood...".
Are we not creatures?
Someone needs to rethink things.

Rollo you made a valid and good point........Lets think along these lines....if the fetus/child was to be cut away from the mother it would die..Correct ??? If it is not alive how can it die ? I agree with you big time.....
Blessings Borther

 

[n2thelight]

All souls are with the Father before being born of woman....They return to the Father at death