Matthew 12:40

[brother Paul]

Number 9:5

And they kept the passover ON the fourteenth day of the first month at even

The even-time is the beginning of the 14th not Late on the 14th....

 

[Sinthesis]

Re=read Le v::5,6 and Numbers 28:16,17 outloud. The Passover IS the 14th (to be eaten by morning) the 1st day of UB is the 15th and goes through the 21st (7 days....count them). During the Torah UB they do not eat meat (no time to stop and cook running from Pharaoh's army)....If you simply count....Passover PLUS 7 days of UB you come to the 21st....the fist day of UB (the 15th) is a Shabbat (whichever day it falls on)

Num 28:17 - And in the fifteenth day of this month is the feast:

 

[brother Paul]

Num 28:17 - And in the fifteenth day of this month is the feast:

Yes the Feast of Unleveand Bread not the consumption of the Passover Lamb

 

[brother Paul]

What is Polycrates talking about?

In the Roman empire the 13th would have extended to Midnight but in the Hebrew way the 14th began at sundown (when the Passover was slain and later eaten)

Did the Apostles observe the Jewish Passover or did they observe the Last Supper on the same night Jesus did?

They observed it on the same night Jesus did which was as the Torah commands, the post captivity Jewish tradition held the meal on the 1st day of The Feast of Unleavened Bread upon which the Israelites would never have stopped to cook (that’s the day they exited Egypt)

I think Polycarp, celebrated it as a remembrance of Him as the passover lamb, not a remembrance of the night of the Last Supper before He died. And this could have been his and Anicetus differences.

Anicetus was intent on ignoring it altogether and focusing the celebration on FirstFruits (the first day following the 7th day Sabbath in UB) so as not to “celebrate His death” but His resurrection

Anicetus said, he was doing as his presbyters did before him.

I do not believe I ever read this, but I do remember Polycarp saying his practice was what the Apostles taught him

 

[rstrats]

With the new year upon us, maybe there will be someone new looking in who knows of examples as requested in the OP and clarified in further posts. And again, remember that the purpose of this topic is not to discuss how long the Messiah was in the heart of the earth. As stated, there are other topics that do that. However, there are those who say that Matthew 12:40 is using common Jewish idiomatic language such as the Messiah saying that He would be in the heart of the earth for 3 nights when He knew that it would only be for 2 nights. But in order to say that it was common, one would have to know of other instances where the same pattern had to have been used. I am simply looking for some of those instances, scriptural or otherwise. So far no one has come forth with any.

 

[ezrider]

Hosea 6:1-3
Come, and let us return unto the Lord:
for he hath torn, and he will heal us;
he hath smitten, and he will bind us up.
After two days will he revive us:
in the third day he will raise us up,
and we shall live in his sight.
Then shall we know, if we follow on to know the Lord:
his going forth is prepared as the morning;
and he shall come unto us as the rain,
as the latter and former rain unto the earth.

Have you ever considered that three nights in the heart of the earth are more than just the physical resurrection of Jesus? Is it not possible that the three nights spent in the heart of the earth refer rather to the to the time when the Spirit of Christ dwells and works within the heart of man and the resurrection of his body, being the Church? A day with the Lord is as a thousand years, and a thousand years is as a day.

 

[brother Paul]

Rstarts many examples have already been given....time to knock off the bait and switch.....

 

[brother Paul]

Hosea 6:1-3
Come, and let us return unto the Lord:
for he hath torn, and he will heal us;
he hath smitten, and he will bind us up.
After two days will he revive us:
in the third day he will raise us up,
and we shall live in his sight.
Then shall we know, if we follow on to know the Lord:
his going forth is prepared as the morning;
and he shall come unto us as the rain,
as the latter and former rain unto the earth.

Have you ever considered that three nights in the heart of the earth are more than just the physical resurrection of Jesus? Is it not possible that the three nights spent in the heart of the earth refer rather to the to the time when the Spirit of Christ dwells and works within the heart of man and the resurrection of his body, being the Church? A day with the Lord is as a thousand years, and a thousand years is as a day.

I have, and the analogy is a possibility one by the many...but even this passage proves the need to interpret the one passage (12:40) by the many....note "in the third day".....not after a third night which follows a third day

 

[rstrats]

bother Paul,

re: "Rstarts many examples have already been given..."

I haven't seen any. How about identifying the number of a post that shows an actual instance where a daytime and/or a night time was said to have been involved with an event when no part of the daytime or no part of the night time could have taken place?

 

[brother Paul]

bother Paul,

re: "Rstarts many examples have already been given..."

I haven't seen any. How about identifying the number of a post that shows an actual instance where a daytime and/or a night time was said to have been involved with an event when no part of the daytime or no part of the night time could have taken place?

That wasn't the question you posited (another bait and switch?)...You posited "But in order to say that it was common, one would have to know of other instances where the same pattern had to have been used. I am simply looking for some of those instances, scriptural or otherwise. So far no one has come forth with any."

Apparently you do not remember the instance I showed you in Esther? She instructs her maidens to fast and pray for three days and three nights (some versions say 3 days, DAY AND NIGHT), yet she goes in unto the King ON the third day (thus before a third night)...I gave others as well...

Paul

 

[rstrats]

bother Paul,

re: " Apparently you do not remember the instance I showed you in Esther?"

Your Esther instance was given in your post #63. And you introduced it by saying that "the answer is from other areas of scripture where the same reasoning is applied to this idea..." I responded to your post with my post #69 by saying that "Scripture would be fine, but I'm not aware of any that shows where a daytime and/or a night time was said to have been involved with regard to an event where absolutely no part of the daytime and/or no part of the night time could have actually transpired." At the time I apparently thought that was a sufficient comment to address your example. In retrospect, I can see that it wasn't. I should have been more specific by saying that there is nothing in the Esther account that precludes at least a portion of each daytime and at least a portion of each night time.

 

[Obadiah]

There has already been a request by administration placed in this thread quoting the guidelines for this forum and requesting that members follow them. Further posts that do not follow these guidelines (which you can read here...) will be responded to with an official warning of record.

 

[Jim Parker]

Whenever the three days and three nights of Matthew 12:40 is brought up in a “discussion†with 6th day crucifixion folks, they frequently argue that it is a Jewish idiom for counting any part of a day as a whole day. I wonder if anyone has documentation that shows that the phrase “x†days and “xâ€nights was ever used in the first century or before when it absolutely didn’t include at least parts of the “x†days and at least parts of the “x†nights?

The solution to the apparent error is found in the context of the passage. To whom was Jesus speaking when he said that no sign but the sign of the prophet Jonah would be given. He was addressing His enemies; the scribes and pharisees. Jesus did not make it a habit of giving them straight answers when they tried to trap Him with His own words and so we find this one instance when He said "three days and three nights."

There are seven times that the phrase, "on the third day" is used. Friday is the first day; Saturday the second, and Sunday the third.

Mat 16:21 From that time on Jesus began to explain to his disciples that he must go to Jerusalem and suffer many things at the hands of the elders, the chief priests and the teachers of the law, and that he must be killed and on the third day be raised to life.
Mat 17:23They will kill him, and on the third day he will be raised to life.” And the disciples were filled with grief.
Mat 20:19and will hand him over to the Gentiles to be mocked and flogged and crucified. On the third day he will be raised
Luke 9:22And he said, “The Son of Man must suffer many things and be rejected by the elders, the chief priests and the teachers of the law, and he must be killed and on the third day be raised to life.”
Luke 18:33 ‘The Son of Man must be delivered over to the hands of sinners, be crucified and on the third day be raised again.'”
Luke 24:46He told them, “This is what is written: The Messiah will suffer and rise from the dead on the third day
Act 10:40 but God raised him from the dead on the third day and caused him to be seen.

THe error is with the readers who read 3 days and 3 nights written once and spoken to Jesus enemies while ignoring the 7 times it is written, "on the third day."

FYI: From the documents of the ancient church:
Justin Martyr: (AD 100-165) The First Apology of Justin
Chapter LXVII.—Weekly Worship of the Christians.
...Sunday is the day on which we all hold our common assembly, because it is the first day on which God, having wrought a change in the darkness and matter, made the world; and Jesus Christ our Saviour on the same day rose from the dead. For He was crucified on the day before that of Saturn (Saturday); and on the day after that of Saturn, which is the day of the Sun, having appeared to His apostles and disciples,

iakov the fool

 

[rstrats]

Jim Parker,

re: "THe error is with the readers who read 3 days and 3 nights written once and spoken to Jesus enemies while ignoring the 7 times it is written, 'on the third day'."

Why shouldn't the more specific interpret the less specific regardless of how many times the less specific is mentioned? And Mark 8:31 further helps interpret the less specific by having the Messiah saying that He would rise "after three days". And additionally, Luke 24:21 indicates that four calendar days would be involved.

 

[Jim Parker]

Jim Parker,

re: "THe error is with the readers who read 3 days and 3 nights written once and spoken to Jesus enemies while ignoring the 7 times it is written, 'on the third day'."

Why shouldn't the more specific interpret the less specific regardless of how many times the less specific is mentioned? And Mark 8:31 further helps interpret the less specific by having the Messiah saying that He would rise "after three days". And additionally, Luke 24:21 indicates that four calendar days would be involved.

Because of context.
How is "on the third day" less specific?

 

[Sinthesis]

Lev 23:15 ¶ And ye shall count unto you from the morrow after the sabbath, from the day that ye brought the sheaf of the wave offering; seven sabbaths shall be complete:
Lev 23:16 - Even unto the morrow after the seventh sabbath shall ye number fifty days; and ye shall offer a new meat offering unto the LORD.​

Within the context of Passover, Jesus was raised on the third day of the counting of the omer, Sunday, after spending Thursday(Sabbath), Friday(1st morrow after the sabbath), and Saturday(Sabbath) in the grave.

 

[Jim Parker]

Lev 23:15 ¶ And ye shall count unto you from the morrow after the sabbath, from the day that ye brought the sheaf of the wave offering; seven sabbaths shall be complete:
Lev 23:16 - Even unto the morrow after the seventh sabbath shall ye number fifty days; and ye shall offer a new meat offering unto the LORD.​

Within the context of Passover, Jesus was raised on the third day of the counting of the omer, Sunday, after spending Thursday(Sabbath), Friday(1st morrow after the sabbath), and Saturday(Sabbath) in the grave.

Leviticus does not tell us about the passion and resurrection of Christ. The Gospels say He was raised on the first day of the week and the scriptures I posted say that was the third day. The witness of the primitive church is that he was crucified on Friday and raised on Sunday.
I have no interest in allegorical interpretations of unrelated scripture when I have the facts plainly arrayed before me.

iakov the fool

 

[Sinthesis]

Post removed. Please review the Forum Guidelines.

 

[Jim Parker]

I believe the witness of the primitive church was in error, and that He was crucified on Wednesday yet raised on Sunday.

Based on what evidence?

In The Epistle of Ignatius to the Magnesians, Ignatius, a contemporary of the apostles ( C. 35-110 AD,) stated in Chapter IX.—Let Us Live with Christ.
…At the dawning of the Lord’s day He arose from the dead, according to what was spoken by Himself, “As Jonah was three days and three nights in the whale’s belly, so shall the Son of man also be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.” The day of the preparation, then, comprises the passion; the Sabbath embraces the burial; the Lord’s Day contains the resurrection.
What evidence can you provide to demonstrate that this disciple of the apostle John was in error? How do your "symbolic hints" found throughout the Bible weigh more than the account of a disciple of the beloved apostle?.

How would being crucified on Wednesday and raising on Sunday be consistent with being raised "on the third day"? (Wed = 1st day, Thur = 2nd day, Fri = 3rd day, Sat = 4the day, Sun = 5th day)

You're not making sense.

 

[rstrats]

Jim Parker,

re: "How is 'on the third day' less specific?"

The Messiah said that 3 days and 3 nights would be involved with His time in the "heart of the earth". He also said that He would rise after 3 days. And Luke 24:21 says that the first day of the week was the "third day since these things happened" with the crucifixion being the last thing mentioned.

So in order to meet those specifics, the phrase "on the third day" would have to mean "on the third day after the crucifixion" with the word "after" being implied.