Bible Study Harmonizing James and Paul

[jocor]

Paul says -

Indeed I, Paul, say to you that if you become circumcised, Christ will profit you nothing. Galatians 5:2

The context is talking about circumcision in order to be justified (Gal 5:4).

The 10 commandments did not begin with Moses, as they were from the beginning, and will always be commandments of God's Kingdom.

I never said they did, nor does that have anything to do with the issue of what "works" are.

The law died with the body of Christ, being nailed to the cross, that we now serve the law of Christ, He who is risen from the dead.
Romans 7:4

JLB

Rom 7:4 Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God.​

The law did not die. We died (our old man - Rom 6:6, 11). The law was not nailed to the cross. Yeshua was nailed to the cross while bearing our sins. The "handwriting" refers to our sin debt as a result of breaking Yahweh's holy laws.

 

[JLB]

The context is talking about circumcision in order to be justified (Gal 5:4).

It doesn't matter, the law of Moses mandated that physical circumcision be done, or your cut off.

Physical circumcision is not required in the new covenant.

Physical circumcision is not only required under the law of Moses but is the very foundation of being in that covenant.

I never said they did, nor does that have anything to do with the issue of what "works" are.

Defining what the various "works' are in the new testament is the issue I was dealing with.

Separating the 10 commandments from the law of Moses showing these commandments are eternal, though the law of Moses was temporary, is what was being explained.


JLB

 

[JLB]

The law did not die. We died (our old man - Rom 6:6, 11). The law was not nailed to the cross. Yeshua was nailed to the cross while bearing our sins. The "handwriting" refers to our sin debt as a result of breaking Yahweh's holy laws.

14 For He Himself is our peace, who has made both one, and has broken down the middle wall of separation, 15 having abolished in His flesh the enmity, that is, the law of commandments contained in ordinances, so as to create in Himself one new man from the two, thus making peace, Ephesians 2:14-15

The law of commandments contained in ordinances is what was abolished, which was the law of Moses that was added, until the Seed should come.

Paul makes it clear that the law was added, and added until the Seed should come.

What purpose then does the law serve? It was added because of transgressions, till the Seed should come to whom the promise was made... Galatians 3:19

The only question we need to ask is; Has the Seed come?

If you believe the promised Seed is Jesus, and He has come, then you also believe the law that was added has been removed, abolished, nailed to the cross, and has vanished away, having become obsolete, [no longer needed].

...having abolished in His flesh the enmity, that is, the law of commandments contained in ordinances, Ephesians 2:15

• In that He says, “A new covenant,” He has made the first obsolete. Now what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away. Hebrews 8:13

• ...having wiped out the handwriting of requirements that was against us, which was contrary to us. And He has taken it out of the way, having nailed it to the cross. Colossians 2:14

The handwriting of requirements were everything written in the book of the law of Moses.

• Now Joshua built an altar to the Lord God of Israel in Mount Ebal, as Moses the servant of the Lord had commanded the children of Israel, as it is written in the Book of the Law of Moses: “an altar of whole stones over which no man has wielded an iron tool.” And they offered on it burnt offerings to the Lord, and sacrificed peace offerings. And there, in the presence of the children of Israel, he wrote on the stones a copy of the law of Moses, which he had written. Joshua 8:31-32

Does that mean we are not to obey the 10 commandments? No of course not.

The commandments and laws of God, before the law of Moses was added, that Abraham kept are eternal.

• Abraham obeyed My voice and kept My charge, My commandments, My statutes, and My laws.” Genesis 26:5

The law is not of faith.

• Yet the law is not of faith, but “the man who does them shall live by them. Galatians 3:12

JLB

 

[GodsGrace]

As I see this "works" is a reference to "I CAN DO IT MYSELF, I can come to salvation by MY good works." It i snot I think talking about actually "WORKING" as we think making a living, or doing a work project. Salvation IS A GIFT.
The idea “saved By Grace through faith” is one of the most precious gifts we can receive. Ro.3:29 Being justified by faith by His Grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus starts a life that we give to Him. Salvation is a gift, we did not plan it, we did not earn it, and we cannot do anything to deserve it. It is a free gift.
However, It is a starting point not the destination.
When you are born a citizen, it is not by your choice or work. You are a citizen by the position and preparation of others. Citizenship has responsibilities. There are things a citizen must do. There are things a citizen may not do. In order to be a citizen one must live by the legal and social moirés of citizenship. There are things that must be done.

This is also true of being saved. Christian living has responsibilities. There are actions we must take. We are to live in the spirit. We are to be an example, We MUST witness to the lost and lead the world to Jesus, and many more things we must do. There are things we cannot do. There are things we should not want to do any longer if we live close to God in grace. This is what we call Christian Living, separate dedicated to God. There are new Christians that just met the Savior and there are older saints that have lived for Him for many years. Each person will hear these ideas a little different depending on where you are in your Christian journey.

Wow. Such good answers. A starting point. Sanctification. To be holy. To be set aside for God's work. Too bad there's not a different word for this type of "work".

As far as responsibilities. Grace people would accuse you of trying to get me back into works. The kind of works I do to try and save myself. Let's say I don't do one of those things I MUST do to be in the spirit, as you say, and which is not part of Chrisitian living per your statement? What happens? You see, this is where I think God's grace comes in. This is where we are forgiven by the blood of Jesus. This is NOT being under the law of works.

There is a thin red line, however. We cannot sin, as you say - or we lie and the truth is not in us.
1 John 2:4 So, yes. I grew up in a sin conscious church (at least it was back then) and it took me a long time to understand God's grace and how Jesus protects me and helps me.

So I understand you - hope those reading along understand this well. Do not sin - but we are covered when we fail.

Wondering

 

[GodsGrace]

• There are the works of the law of Moses.
• The works that earn wages.
• The works of righteousness. Righteous works inspired by the Spirit
• The work of faith. [ work here = the effort obedience requires] The obedience of faith.

But now is made manifest, and by the scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the everlasting God, made known to all nations for the obedience of faith: Romans 16:26 KJV

When a person hear's the Gospel preached by a person sent by the Lord, and respond with the corresponding act of obedience, then they are "saved" by faith, having now the hope of salvation.

The Gospel: Repent for the kingdom of God is at hand.

One of the greatest things our present day culture in America has lost, and desperately needs is to understand is the Gospel, and what it means.

The Gospel is God's call to humanity to come out of darkness into the kingdom of His dear Son.

The Gospel is God's call to humanity, to come out of hiding...

So he said, “I heard Your voice in the garden, and I was afraid because I was naked; and I hid myself.” Genesis 3:10



Repent is the command of the Gospel, that is to be obeyed from the heart.

Not repent of your sins.

Repent means to turn to God, to the kingdom of God, and it's King.

If you are called to turn to God, then by default you are called to turn from Satan as your lord, to Jesus Christ as Lord.

The way that your express this obedience of faith, concerning the Gospel is to confess Jesus as Lord.

For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. Romans 10:10

This is what grants the believer/obeyer of the Gospel, the forgiveness of sins.


Peter replied, “Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. Acts 2:38


Peter did not say "repent of your sins".

A person can not "stop sinning" without the born again new Nature empowered by the Holy Spirit.


The way we are granted this, is by repenting, which means turning away from Satan and his kingdom, and turning to God, and confessing Jesus as Lord.

• This is plainly what the Lord Jesus Christ taught to and commissioned Paul to do.

15 So I said, ‘Who are You, Lord?’ And He said, ‘I am Jesus, whom you are persecuting. 16 But rise and stand on your feet; for I have appeared to you for this purpose, to make you a minister and a witness both of the things which you have seen and of the things which I will yet reveal to you. 17 I will deliver you from the Jewish people, as well as from the Gentiles, to whom I now send you, 18 to open their eyes, in order to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan to God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins and an inheritance among those who are sanctified by faith in Me.’ Acts 26:15-18

Repent is about being transferred from the kingdom of darkness to the kingdom of God.

He has delivered us from the power of darkness and conveyed us into the kingdom of the Son of His love, 14 in whom we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of sins. Colossians 1:13-14

It's about changing who you serve, as your Lord.

• The Gospel of the kingdom is about changing the kingdom your are in, by changing the lord you have served.
• The Gospel is God's call to humanity, to "come out of hiding" in darkness, and to come into the light, the kingdom of light.

JLB

Nothing to add JLB.
You're the tops.

You say:
"He has delivered us from the POWER of darkness."

What an important concept to understand!

Also you say:
It's about changing who you serve, as your Lord.

A very important point for me. We must decide whom we will serve - there is no neutral zone.
Joshua 24:15

Wondering

 

[GodsGrace]

In keeping with the OP, "works" refers to good deeds that are the fruit of faith or bad deeds that stem from a lack of faith (works of the flesh). Those good works which we are ordained to walk in include things like feeding the hungry or clothing the poor and works of the law like not committing adultery, or idolatry, or Sabbath breaking, or murder, etc. Paul and James agree on this.


That may be true of Gentiles, but it may not be true of Jews. That was the problem Paul was dealing with because many Jews believed works saved them.

Rom 9:30 What shall we say then? That the Gentiles, which followed not after righteousness, have attained to righteousness, even the righteousness which is of faith.
Rom 9:31 But Israel, which followed after the law of righteousness, hath not attained to the law of righteousness.
Rom 9:32 Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone;​

Jocor,

You say:
That may be true of Gentiles, but it may not be true of Jews. That was the problem Paul was dealing with because many Jews believed works saved them.

I was saying that a person who does good works would be more likely to hear the word of God and respond.

So you're saying this problem exists even today? Jesus, the cornerstone, has become the stumbling block.
Acts 4:11
Then Acts 4:12 says there is no other name under the sun by which we might be saved.

Acts 4:11 refers me to Psalm 118:22
"the stone which the builders rejected has become the cornerstone" NAS

I agree. Jesus is a stumbling block to the Jew, but to gentiles also. Maybe it's more difficult for the Jew because he already has God, Yahweh. A gentile will tend to believe in Jesus and not Buddha or Krishna etc.

The Jew worshipped in tents in the desert - the tent went where the Jew went. After the temple was built there was no further need for the tabernacle. The tabernacle became a permanent place where one could worship.

Then Jesus referred to Himself as the temple: John 2:19
The Jews who were selling animals for sacrifice at the temple in Jerusalem asked for a sign to know from where He got His authority. But they didn't understand the answer. In fact, Jesus DID rebuild the temple in 3 days. He was, of course, referring to His body as the New Temple.

Also, when Jesus was on the cross " darkness fell over the land and the veil of the temple was torn in two".
Luke 24:44-45

I believe it was once a year (?) that the High Priest went behind the veil in the Holy of Holies in the tabernacle to offer a blood sacrifice to God. A special blood sacrifice. The Holy of Holies was behind a veil. At the cross that veil has been torn in two. Now everyone could enter into the Holy of Holies - which to us is Jesus.

So, yes, the Jews are stumbling even today since they will not accept Messiah.

Wondering

 

[GodsGrace]

OK.
I'm not going to sound all theological here...

I have met both types of individuals.
I have met people who claim Christ but have no fruits of the claim whatsoever except a said desire to yet again get into the habit of attending church services.

And while in church I have met individuals who can quote verbatim almost their favorite pet theology and then tell of the latest news on the new books out there of Christian life. But when it comes time to show up to do anything about working with others on a faith based project they are MIA.

Again...both are in the same condition of Spiritual poverty.

Regarding the second example I would like to say that in any setting, only 5% of the population will do the work to keep the church as institution going and help with the work necessary for that. Projects, cleaning the church, etc. We can't know why the others don't help out. Maybe they can't for some reason. There must be some fruit though - maybe it's in other areas --

As to the first, "you shall know a tree by its fruit."

As for both: Only God knows the condition of each. And each example of yours is why we're to trust Jesus, because we cannot do it on our own.

Wondering

 

[jocor]

Separating the 10 commandments from the law of Moses showing these commandments are eternal, though the law of Moses was temporary, is what was being explained.

JLB

No amount of separating can ever remove the Ten Commandments from the Law of Moses. Yahweh made them an integral part of it.

 

[GodsGrace]

Paul says -

Indeed I, Paul, say to you that if you become circumcised, Christ will profit you nothing. Galatians 5:2

The law mandated physical circumcision before anything else. So without becoming physically circumcised, keeping the Sabbath, or or any of the other commandments contained in ordinances were useless.

IOW, there wasn't an option for physical circumcision, or circumcision of the heart, in the law of Moses.

The 10 commandments did not begin with Moses, as they were from the beginning, and will always be commandments of God's Kingdom.

Lucifer broke the First and Fifth Commandment before man was created.

“How you are fallen from heaven,
O Lucifer, son of the morning!
How you are cut down to the ground,
You who weakened the nations!
13 For you have said in your heart:
‘I will ascend into heaven,
I will exalt my throne above the stars of God;
I will also sit on the mount of the congregation
On the farthest sides of the north;
14 I will ascend above the heights of the clouds,
I will be like the Most High.’
Yet you shall be brought down to Sheol,
To the lowest depths of the Pit.
Isaiah 14:12-15

The law died with the body of Christ, being nailed to the cross, that we now serve the law of Christ, He who is risen from the dead.
Romans 7:4


JLB

This might have been said, sorry - can't read every word again.

Would just like to say that circumcision was the sign of the Mosaic Covenant.
So if a gentile that was becoming Christian had to be circumcised it would have meant that he was under the law and would have to keep all of the ceremonial law - which is what Jesus came to abolish.

We are either following the law or we are following Jesus, or grace.

The 10 commandments always existed because they could be considered the Natural Law - a law which even atheists believe exists. A law that is natural to man and to his survival. Murder was always against God's laws. Cain killing able. God was so mad at Cain for this murder that He told Cain he would be a wanderer on the earth, Genesis 4:12

However, God hates murder so much that He even said "whoever kills Cain, vengeance will be taken on him sevenfold" Genesis 4:15 This because the life is in the blood, but murder was always hated by God, not just from when the 10 commandments were given to Moses. All the commandments are Natural Law.

Wondering

 

[jocor]

14 For He Himself is our peace, who has made both one, and has broken down the middle wall of separation, 15 having abolished in His flesh the enmity, that is, the law of commandments contained in ordinances, so as to create in Himself one new man from the two, thus making peace, Ephesians 2:14-15

The law of commandments contained in ordinances is what was abolished, which was the law of Moses that was added, until the Seed should come.

Paul makes it clear that the law was added, and added until the Seed should come.

What purpose then does the law serve? It was added because of transgressions, till the Seed should come to whom the promise was made... Galatians 3:19

The only question we need to ask is; Has the Seed come?

If you believe the promised Seed is Jesus, and He has come, then you also believe the law that was added has been removed, abolished, nailed to the cross, and has vanished away, having become obsolete, [no longer needed].

...having abolished in His flesh the enmity, that is, the law of commandments contained in ordinances, Ephesians 2:15

• In that He says, “A new covenant,” He has made the first obsolete. Now what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away. Hebrews 8:13

• ...having wiped out the handwriting of requirements that was against us, which was contrary to us. And He has taken it out of the way, having nailed it to the cross. Colossians 2:14

The handwriting of requirements were everything written in the book of the law of Moses.

• Now Joshua built an altar to the Lord God of Israel in Mount Ebal, as Moses the servant of the Lord had commanded the children of Israel, as it is written in the Book of the Law of Moses: “an altar of whole stones over which no man has wielded an iron tool.” And they offered on it burnt offerings to the Lord, and sacrificed peace offerings. And there, in the presence of the children of Israel, he wrote on the stones a copy of the law of Moses, which he had written. Joshua 8:31-32

Does that mean we are not to obey the 10 commandments? No of course not.

The commandments and laws of God, before the law of Moses was added, that Abraham kept are eternal.

• Abraham obeyed My voice and kept My charge, My commandments, My statutes, and My laws.” Genesis 26:5

The law is not of faith.

• Yet the law is not of faith, but “the man who does them shall live by them. Galatians 3:12

JLB

I am not going to turn this thread into a Law of Moses thread. The fact of the matter is, when we obey Yahweh's laws we are doing the works He expects of us whether they are obeying the Ten Commandments or not having sex with animals, or not cutting our flesh for the dead, or not moving our neighbors boundary markers, etc.

 

[jocor]

Jocor,

You say:
That may be true of Gentiles, but it may not be true of Jews. That was the problem Paul was dealing with because many Jews believed works saved them.

I was saying that a person who does good works would be more likely to hear the word of God and respond.

So you're saying this problem exists even today?

The Jews back then and even today do many good works and believe they are righteous because of them and will therefore be saved by the Almighty. However, it is their own righteousness they are establishing and they are seeking to be saved by some other means besides faith in Yeshua. The time will come when Yahweh lifts their blindness and they will receive Yeshua and his righteousness through faith.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Paul is discussing getting saved.
James is discussing LIVING a Christian life.

It really is that simple.

 

[JLB]

I am not going to turn this thread into a Law of Moses thread. The fact of the matter is, when we obey Yahweh's laws we are doing the works He expects of us whether they are obeying the Ten Commandments or not having sex with animals, or not cutting our flesh for the dead, or not moving our neighbors boundary markers, etc.

In your religion or belief, do you guys lay hands on the sick or cast out devils, or speak in tongues or prophesy....?


JLB

 

[jocor]

In your religion or belief, do you guys lay hands on the sick or cast out devils, or speak in tongues or prophesy....?
JLB

Since my "religion" is that of Messiah Yeshua and the Apostles, of course, if the occasion arises. I haven't had to cast out a devil yet. Nor do I speak in tongues, but I believe in that gift if the Spirit chooses to give it to me. Why do you ask and what about you?

 

[Jethro Bodine]

JLB, you'd be surprised how 'charismatic' some Messianic believers are. And more than most Protestant denominations.

 

[JLB]

Since my "religion" is that of Messiah Yeshua and the Apostles, of course, if the occasion arises. I haven't had to cast out a devil yet. Nor do I speak in tongues, but I believe in that gift if the Spirit chooses to give it to me. Why do you ask and what about you?

I ask because your mindset seems to be that of the law of Moses and the things of that covenant.

I had asked you before if you had been Baptized in the Holy Spirit and you said you had.

Now I see by your statement, "Nor do I speak in tongues, but I believe in that gift if the Spirit chooses to give it to me."
that you have not received the Holy Spirit as the Apostles taught and demonstrated.

This explains a lot.

Thank you for your honesty.

JLB

JLB, you'd be surprised how 'charismatic' some Messianic believers are. And more than most Protestant denominations.

These "signs" for believers, not charismatics, which is a modern day term, given mostly by those who don't believe in the Baptism of the Holy Spirit and how it was demonstrated by the Apostles.

16 He who believes and is baptized will be saved; but he who does not believe will be condemned. 17 And these signs will follow those who believe: In My name they will cast out demons; they will speak with new tongues; 18 they will take up serpents; and if they drink anything deadly, it will by no means hurt them; they will lay hands on the sick, and they will recover.” Mark 16:16-18


JLB

 

[jocor]

I ask because your mindset seems to be that of the law of Moses and the things of that covenant.

My mindset is to obey my Creator whose will was revealed to His people through Moses. Those laws were once external. Now they are internal in me.

I had asked you before if you had been Baptized in the Holy Spirit and you said you had.

Now I see by your statement, "Nor do I speak in tongues, but I believe in that gift if the Spirit chooses to give it to me."
that you have not received the Holy Spirit as the Apostles taught and demonstrated.

This explains a lot.

Thank you for your honesty.

JLB

Tongues is not a gift that is given to everyone.

1Co 12:7 But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to every man to profit withal.
1Co 12:8 For to one is given by the Spirit the word of wisdom; to another the word of knowledge by the same Spirit;
1Co 12:9 To another faith by the same Spirit; to another the gifts of healing by the same Spirit;
1Co 12:10 To another the working of miracles; to another prophecy; to another discerning of spirits; to another diverse kinds of tongues; to another the interpretation of tongues:
1Co 12:11 But all these worketh that one and the selfsame Spirit, dividing to every man severally as he will.​

These "signs" for believers, not charismatics, which is a modern day term, given mostly by those who don't believe in the Baptism of the Holy Spirit and how it was demonstrated by the Apostles.

16 He who believes and is baptized will be saved; but he who does not believe will be condemned. 17 And these signs will follow those who believe: In My name they will cast out demons; they will speak with new tongues; 18 they will take up serpents; and if they drink anything deadly, it will by no means hurt them; they will lay hands on the sick, and they will recover.” Mark 16:16-18
JLB

Mark 16:16-18 does not mean every single believer receives every single gift of the Spirit and walks in them at all times. The gifts are given to whoever and whenever the Spirit chooses.

You should be ashamed of yourself for bringing into question whether or not I have the Holy Spirit simply because you are unable to successfully oppose my doctrine.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Now I see by your statement, "Nor do I speak in tongues, but I believe in that gift if the Spirit chooses to give it to me."
that you have not received the Holy Spirit as the Apostles taught and demonstrated.

Not everybody receives the gift of tongues:

"8For to one is given the word of wisdom through the Spirit, and to another the word of knowledge according to the same Spirit; 9to another faith by the same Spirit, and to another gifts of healing by the one Spirit, 10and to another the effecting of miracles, and to another prophecy, and to another the distinguishing of spirits, to another various kinds of tongues, and to another the interpretation of tongues. 11But one and the same Spirit works all these things, distributing to each one individually just as He wills."

27Now you are Christ’s body, and individually members of it. 28And God has appointed in the church, first apostles, second prophets, third teachers, then miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, administrations,various kinds of tongues. 29All are not apostles, are they? All are not prophets, are they? All are not teachers, are they? All are not workers of miracles, are they? 30All do not have gifts of healings, do they? All do not speak with tongues, do they? All do not interpret, do they?

(1 Corinthians 12:8-11, 27-30 NASB italics in original, bold by me)

The answer to his rhetorical question of course is, 'no, all do not speak with tongues'. Only some do, as God as seen fit to gift them for that. Not being one that has the gift of tongues hardly means they don't have the Spirit. It means they have not been given that gift, but a different gift. Not all of us are the same part of the body (where would the body be?), but rather God has distributed the various functions of his body as he has willed that.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

My mindset is to obey my Creator whose will was revealed to His people through Moses. Those laws were once external. Now they are internal in me.


Tongues is not a gift that is given to everyone.

1Co 12:7 But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to every man to profit withal.
1Co 12:8 For to one is given by the Spirit the word of wisdom; to another the word of knowledge by the same Spirit;
1Co 12:9 To another faith by the same Spirit; to another the gifts of healing by the same Spirit;
1Co 12:10 To another the working of miracles; to another prophecy; to another discerning of spirits; to another diverse kinds of tongues; to another the interpretation of tongues:
1Co 12:11 But all these worketh that one and the selfsame Spirit, dividing to every man severally as he will.​

Mark 16:16-18 does not mean every single believer receives every single gift of the Spirit and walks in them at all times. The gifts are given to whoever and whenever the Spirit chooses.

You should be ashamed of yourself for bringing into question whether or not I have the Holy Spirit simply because you are unable to successfully oppose my doctrine.

We cross posted.
I hate when that happens.

 

[JLB]

Not everybody receives the gift of tongues:

Everyone who receives the Holy Spirit, has evidence that is seen and heard.

And they were all filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.
Therefore being exalted to the right hand of God, and having received from the Father the promise of the Holy Spirit, He poured out this which you now see and hear. Acts 2:4,33

again

14 Now when the apostles who were at Jerusalem heard that Samaria had received the word of God, they sent Peter and John to them, 15 who, when they had come down, prayed for them that they might receive the Holy Spirit. 16 For as yet He had fallen upon none of them. They had only been baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. 17 Then they laid hands on them, and they received the Holy Spirit.
18 And when Simon saw that through the laying on of the apostles’ hands the Holy Spirit was given, he offered them money, 19 saying, “Give me this power also, that anyone on whom I lay hands may receive the Holy Spirit.” Acts 8:14-19

again

44 While Peter was still speaking these words, the Holy Spirit fell upon all those who heard the word. 45 And those of the circumcision who believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out on the Gentiles also. 46 For they heard them speak with tongues and magnify God.

again

And it happened, while Apollos was at Corinth, that Paul, having passed through the upper regions, came to Ephesus. And finding some disciples 2 he said to them, “Did you receive the Holy Spirit when you believed?”So they said to him, “We have not so much as heard whether there is a Holy Spirit.”3 And he said to them, “Into what then were you baptized?” So they said, “Into John’s baptism.”
4 Then Paul said, “John indeed baptized with a baptism of repentance, saying to the people that they should believe on Him who would come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.” 5 When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. 6 And when Paul had laid hands on them, the Holy Spirit came upon them, and they spoke with tongues and prophesied. Acts 19:1-6

Each instance when these believers received the Holy Spirit, people saw and heard the evidence.

The evidence is speaking in tongues that is seen or heard.

Believers who receive the Holy Spirit, speak in new tongues.

And these signs will follow those who believe: In My name they will cast out demons; they will speak with new tongues;
Mark 16:17

This is for all believers.

The 9 gifts of the Holy Spirit in 1 Corinthians 12, is a manifestation of the Holy Spirit giftings, which is different than
receiving the Holy Spirit.

Two completely different things.

• Nine different gifts of the Spirit.

• Receiving the Holy Spirit Himself, with evidence that is seen or heard.

JLB