Bible Study The 3 Baptisms

[JLB]

Im not convinced when people say they come out of water baptism and recieved the Holy Spirit.

 

[ezra]

Well said.

That's why Paul told the Corinthian church that, if there was no interpreter, don't speak in tongues.

They're good enough

and that is my point imo we have took the gift of tongues and turned our services into a 3 ring circus . i witnessed on t,v Rod Parsley barking like a dog it allegedly in the spirit.... what happened to things done decently and in order

 

[Razeontherock]

There are 3 distinct ideas different people have put forward. There are also misperceptions stated, about at least two of them. While we're not all going to believe the same thing, it would be good if we all hear each other accurately, and avoid misconceptions.

For one, I'm pretty sure Jim Parker has NOT said that being Baptized in water guarantees being Baptized in the Holy Spirit, much less being synonymous with it. Jim, do I have that right?

I ask because I see more than one person responding as if that is what you've said. I don't want to speak for you, but I'd be awfully surprised to see you state that Faith is irrelevant, or that hearing the Word has no part. Trying to spell out exactly what role these things have isn't the objective here either; but clarifying that these are elements in a believer's life that should (must?) accompany a valid water Baptism could go a long way towards better understanding of one another.

Likewise, I think Jim has the wrong idea here, which I hope to clarify easily enough:

Jesus commanded that all disciples (every believer) be baptized and the book of Acts clearly and repeatedly relates that everyone who was converted was also baptized in water.
The only way to the conclusion that the water refers to the word is to willfully ignore the teaching of scripture in order to promote the innovation that Baptism in water is not required as Jesus stated it is.

Some people might in fact do that, but many uphold Jesus' commandment to be Baptized and also see John 3 "being born of water" as FHG believes (that the water parallels "the flesh," thus being washed in the Word, as Scripture does speak to elsewhere) or as JLB believes, that being "born of water" refers to natural childbirth i.e. placenta.

These are the 3 different understandings I see that people have put forward, with the only real difference of opinion being over the 3 words in John 3, "born of water."

That's pretty good! We all agree that being "born of the Spirit" refers to being Baptized in the Holy Spirit, right? And we all agree it's good to be Baptized in water?

 

[ezra]

The only way to the conclusion that the water refers to the word is to willfully ignore the teaching of scripture in order to promote the innovation that Baptism in water is not required as Jesus stated it is.

i used the baptized of the water = the word... i never said nor has anyone else said it ignored water baptism, which follows salvation .

 

[Jim Parker]

and that is my point imo we have took the gift of tongues and turned our services into a 3 ring circus . i witnessed on t,v Rod Parsley barking like a dog it allegedly in the spirit.... what happened to things done decently and in order

And we wonder why the USA is experiencing a revival of paganism..........

 

[Jim Parker]

For one, I'm pretty sure Jim Parker has NOT said that being Baptized in water guarantees being Baptized in the Holy Spirit, much less being synonymous with it. Jim, do I have that right?

yes.
They are two separate events.

or as JLB believes, that being "born of water" refers to natural childbirth

ANd since that is the first birth it cannot refer to being born AGAIN of water.

And we all agree it's good to be Baptized in water?

I would hope so since Jesus commanded it and doing what God commands is good.

 

[JLB]

or as JLB believes, that being "born of water" refers to natural childbirth

Yes as Jesus explains in the following verse - That which is born of the flesh is flesh

Jesus answered, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God. That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. John 3:5-6

Jesus is teaching Nicodemus about being born again.


He is using "earthly things" [natural birth] to explain a heavenly reality [spiritual birth].

If I have told you earthly things and you do not believe, how can you believe if I tell you heavenly things? John 3:12


Jesus is also fighting the Jewish mindset that because they are natural children of Abraham, does not mean they and children of God, they need to be born again.


John goes on to use a variation this phrase again as he describes the miracle birth of Christ.


This is he who came by water and blood—Jesus Christ; not by the water only but by the water and the blood. And the Spirit is the one who testifies, because the Spirit is the truth. 1 John 5:6


All men come into this world by water. [Natural birth]


Only Christ came into this world by both water and blood. [Supernatural birth]



JLB

 

[JLB]

That's pretty good! We all agree that being "born of the Spirit" refers to being Baptized in the Holy Spirit, right?

No sir.

As I said before, we are Baptized into Christ by the Spirit.

This occurs when we are born again; Born of the Spirit.

• that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

The Holy Spirit baptizes us into Christ.

For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body—whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free—and have all been made to drink into one Spirit. 1 Corinthians 12:13



It is Jesus who baptizes us with the Holy Spirit. The power to witness. The power for ministry.

And being assembled together with them, He commanded them not to depart from Jerusalem, but to wait for the Promise of the Father, “which,” He said, “you have heard from Me; for John truly baptized with water, but you shall be baptized with the Holy Spirit not many days from now.” Acts 1:4-5


again


I indeed baptized you with water, but He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit.” Mark 1:8

1. The Holy Spirit baptizes us into Christ
2. Man baptizes with water.
3. Jesus baptizes us with the Holy Spirit.

Moreover, brethren, I do not want you to be unaware that all our fathers were under the cloud, all passed through the sea, all were baptized into Moses in the cloud and in the sea, all ate the same spiritual food, and all drank the same spiritual drink. For they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them, and that Rock was Christ. 1 Corinthians 10:1-4


all were baptized into Moses in the cloud and in the sea

• Moses: A type of Christ.
• The cloud: A type of the Holy Spirit
• The sea: A type of water baptism

JLB

 

[ezrider]

As I said before, we are Baptized into Christ by the Spirit.

This occurs when we are born again; Born of the Spirit.

I believe it was Jim Parker who pointed out that part of the baptism is to be baptized into the Death of Christ.

If baptism then involves being baptized into His death so that those who continue on in Faith may also be baptized by the Spirit into His Resurrected Life, then how can one be "Born Again" without also being resurrected with Christ? If the resurrection of the dead occurs at the last day at his coming, is this also part of the baptism?


Why did Paul teach that baptism and the resurrection of the dead are the first principles of the doctrine of Christ but also things that we should move on from as we grow in Christ?

Hebrews 6:1-2
Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God, Of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment.

 

[Jim Parker]

If baptism then involves being baptized into His death so that those who continue on in Faith may also be baptized by the Spirit into His Resurrected Life, then how can one be "Born Again" without also being resurrected with Christ?

Don't go by what I said.
Read the passage in Romans 6.
Rom 6:3-4 Or do you not know that as many of us as were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into His death? Therefore we were buried with Him through baptism into death, that just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.

We are baptized into Christ's death.
We are buried with Christ through baptism into death.
Just as Christ was raised, we should walk in newness of life.
(A new life of righteousness and eternal life. Not the old life of sin and death leading to the second death)

Rom 6:5 For if we have been united together in the likeness of His death, certainly we also shall be in the likeness of His resurrection,
The man Jesus of Nazareth (who also was God the Logos) was raised from death to eternal life.
We are also raised from baptism to eternal life.

Rom 6:6-7 knowing this, that our old man was crucified with Him, that the body of sin might be done away with, that we should no longer be slaves of sin. For he who has died has been freed from sin. Our old man, the "body of sin", died with Christ, was buried with Christ and stayed buried.
We left the man of sin buried in the grave and rose from baptism a "new creation" "in Christ Jesus."
In baptism, the "body of sin", the enslavement to sin, is rendered dead and is buried.

So being "born again" through baptism (in water) our old slave to sin dies and is buried and a new creation is born to eternal life in Christ.

If the resurrection of the dead occurs at the last day at his coming, is this also part of the baptism?

The resurrection on the last day is the physical resurrection of every human being that ever lived whether saint or sinner. All mankind will be raised immortal and incorruptible.
Then the LORD will pronounce judgement; the righteous will inherit eternal life and the wicked will inherit the second death.

Baptism is a spiritual*** reality ( a spiritual resurrection) by which we leave the body that was enslaved to sin behind and are resurrected with the desire and spiritual power to serve God. We have the spiritual power to choose to serve God because we receive the indwelling of the Holy Spirit who empowers us to serve God and shun sin.

We die and are buried in baptism as sons of Adam, the old creation, and are raised as sons of God, the new creation, of whom Jesus is the firstborn among many brethren.

The "old man" was indwelt with the spirit of the world.
The "new creation" is indwelt with the Holy Spirit. He is a human being who bears the presence of the living God, Father, Son, and Holy Spirit within him.

***The word, "spiritual" does not have a meaning like "fairy tale" or "pretend" or "warm fuzzy feeling."
It refers to an eternal reality.

iakov the fool

 

[JLB]

If the resurrection of the dead occurs at the last day at his coming, is this also part of the baptism?

Those who are resurrected unto life, on that Day, are those who have been baptized and moved on to walk according to the Spirit in which they have lived a life of faith being led by the Spirit. (Walking in the newness of life) Romans 6:4


Do not marvel at this; for the hour is coming in which all who are in the graves will hear His voice and come forth—those who have done good, to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil, to the resurrection of condemnation.
John 5:28-29

those who have done good, to the resurrection of life,​

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For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, these are sons of God. Romans 8:14

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JLB​

 

[ezra]

i hope i dont break the golden religious cow with this. the thief on the cross was not baptized. jesus said today you will be with me in paradise. if a person is born again and dies before baptism ..will they go to hell? i seriously doubt it keeps him from heaven. once baptism follows salvation so far JLB is about as close as i agree with

 

[JLB]

i hope i dont break the golden religious cow with this. the thief on the cross was not baptized.

Says who?


Did he believe and confess Jesus as Lord.


Then he said to Jesus, “Lord, remember me when You come into Your kingdom.”
Luke 23:42


For “whoever calls on the name of the Lord shall be saved.” Romans 10:13


For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body—whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free—and have all been made to drink into one Spirit.
1 Corinthians 12:13




JLB

 

[ezra]

Says who?

says who what ?

 

[turnorburn]

Says who?


Did he believe and confess Jesus as Lord.


Then he said to Jesus, “Lord, remember me when You come into Your kingdom.”
Luke 23:42


For “whoever calls on the name of the Lord shall be saved.” Romans 10:13


For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body—whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free—and have all been made to drink into one Spirit.
1 Corinthians 12:13




JLB

i think ezra was referring to water baptism..

 

[ezra]

i think ezra was referring to water baptism..

i thought i made it pretty plain .the thief on the cross WAS not baptized yet he went to paradise with Christ... baptism is important but not essential to salvation..

 

[for_his_glory]

Jesus commanded that all disciples (that's every believer) be baptized. (Mat 28:19)
Jesus also said; " Why do you call me 'Lord, Lord" when you do not do what I command?" (Luk 6:46)
The message of that question is, if you refuse to obey Jesus' command then He is not your LORD and if He is not your Lord then you are not saved.

Also; Baptism is for the remission of sins.
Act 2:38 Then Peter said to them, “Repent, and let every one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

How are sins remitted in baptism? At Ro 6:6-7, Paul explains that, in Baptism, "...our old man was crucified with Him, that the body of sin might be done away with, that we should no longer be slaves of sin. For he who has died has been freed from sin."


There is nothing in that passage to support, or even suggest, the false notion that "water", in that context, refers to the "word."
As stated above, Jesus commanded that all disciples (every believer) be baptized and the book of Acts clearly and repeatedly relates that everyone who was converted was also baptized in water.
The only way to the conclusion that the water refers to the word is to willfully ignore the teaching of scripture in order to promote the innovation that Baptism in water is not required as Jesus stated it is.

1Pe 3:20-21 ....who formerly were disobedient, when once the Divine longsuffering waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was being prepared, in which a few, that is, eight souls, were saved through water. There is also an antitype which now saves us—baptism
So the word of God, through Peter, says we are saved in baptism.

"Born from above" refers to the baptism in (being filled with) the Holy Spirit.
Act 1:4-5 And being assembled together with them, He (Jesus) commanded them not to depart from Jerusalem, but to wait for the Promise of the Father, “which,” He (Jesus) said, “you have heard from Me; for John truly baptized with water, but you shall be baptized with the Holy Spirit not many days from now.”

Jhn 3:5-8 Jesus answered, “Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God. That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. Do not marvel that I said to you, ‘You must be born again.’ the wind blows where it wishes, and you hear the sound of it, but cannot tell where it comes from and where it goes. So is everyone who is born of the Spirit.”

Acts 2:38,39 When we repent of our sins and ask Jesus into our hearts we are also receiving the promise of God that his Holy Spirit will come and dwell in our hearts and teach us of all things we need to learn, John 14:26. The baptism that Peter was talking about in Acts 2:38 was a Spiritual rebirth through the word of God. Some people think it is being dunked or sprinkled with water the way John the Baptist did and there is nothing wrong with that for it is an outward appearance to man that you have repented and received Jesus and the Holy Spirit into your life, Matthew 3:11, but Jesus himself never baptized with water, John 4:2, for the baptism of Jesus was for receiving the Spirit of God (Holy Spirit) that helps us to know the will of the Father, 1 Thessalonians 4:1-12.

There is nothing wrong with immersion in water as this is an outward appearance to others that you have received Gods Salvation and the Holy Spirit. When the Disciples where in the upper room they all received the Holy Spirit, not by immersion of water, but by Gods Spirit falling on them. What about those people who can not be immersed in water that are incapacitated. Peter did not say that it was through water that we receive the Holy Spirit in Acts 10:47, 48 he was saying that others should not forbid a Gentile who wants to be immersed in water, but repentance must come first and at the same time of repenting we also receive the Holy Spirit according to Acts 2:38,39.

This is from the Jerusalem Bible:
John 4:1 When Jesus heard that the Pharisees had found out that he was making and baptizing more disciples than John though in fact it was his disciples who baptized, not Jesus himself he left Judaea and went back to Galilee.

 

[for_his_glory]

As far as I can see in scripture, believing in Jesus, the one who come after John, is being baptised in Jesus, and the laying on of hands is recieve the Holy Spirit.

Acts 19 says people were only baptised in water and when they hear John said to believe in the one who comes after him, upon hearing that they were baptised in Jesus name. Then Paul lay his hands and they recieve the Spirit.

Another says baptised only in Jesus name so to recieve Spirit had hands layed on them.

Obviously they were believers in Jesus but not had hands to recieve Spirit.

What happened when there was no water or anyone to lay on hands?.

Acts 2:38 and Acts 10:47, 48 are both talking about water, but not for the remission of sins, but for an afterward appearance of acknowledgement. John 3:5-7 We are given the Holy Spirit at the same time of repentance and has nothing to do with water baptism as I have stated that water baptism is an outward appearance to others that you have already confessed and believed and received the Holy Spirit.

This is what Smith's Bible dictionary says:
To be baptized for Christ shows an intention to become a true follower of Christ. John baptized with water unto repentance but as a sign of it, perhaps only a sign of their willingness to enroll themselves among John’s followers. Jesus himself did not baptize with water, but with the Spirit and Christian baptism was only instituted after the resurrection when the Lord gave the commission to his apostles to go into all the world and preach the gospel to every creature.

Act 10:47 Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?

This verse shows that these men had already received the Holy Spirit, but wanted to be baptized in water also as followers of Christ. So I believe both verses in Acts to be water, but not for the receiving of the Holy Spirit, but an outward appearance to others that they have repented and received the Holy Spirit already.

 

[LovethroughDove]

Being baptized, is being born again.........of the Spirit.

When we are born again we have died with Christ and raised with him.

Romans 6:4 We were therefore buried with him through baptism into death in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, we too may live a new life.

 

[LovethroughDove]

Water baptism was from John the baptist. We are to be baptized in the Spirit.

Acts 19:4-6 Paul said, "John's baptism was a baptism of repentance. He told the people to believe in the one coming after him, that is, in Jesus. When Paul placed his hands on them, the Holy Spirit came on them, and they spoke in tongues and prophesied.

Acts 1:5 "For John baptized with water, but in a few days you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit."

John 1:26-27 "I baptize with water," John replied, "but among you stands one you do not know. He is the one who comes after me, the thongs of whose sandals I am not worthy to untie."

John 1:33 I would not have known him, except that the one who sent me to baptize with water told me, "The man on whom you see the Spirit come down and remain is he who will baptize with the Holy Spirit.'

Matthew 3:11 "I baptize you with water (John the baptist) for repentance. But after me will come one who is more powerful than I, whose sandals I am not fit to carry. He (Jesus) will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and with fire."