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Guest, Join Papa Zoom today for some uplifting biblical encouragement! --> Daily Verses
Perfect.
I think I posted the same as above a day or two ago.
I said practically the same things...
so, of course...
they're perfect!
LOL
Walpole
Member
St. Peter also affirming the necessity of the resurrection for man's redemption and justification...
"Unto you first God, having raised up his Son Jesus, sent him to bless you, in turning away every one of you from his iniquities." (Acts 3:26)
"Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead." (1 Peter 1:3)
Walpole
Member
Great minds think alike!
Yes. I understand what you're saying.
How's this:
The resurrection has to be a part of the salvation plan...
Otherwise He would have just been another man....
It would not have been "complete" or "finsihed".....
Walpole
Member
Yes, or to use the words of St. Paul, which you quoted earlier...
"...and IF Christ has not been raised, your faith is worthless; you are still in your sins." (1 Cor. 15:17)
Ergo, "It is finished" cannot refer to the atonement because He had not yet died nor rose from the dead when he said those words.
Only in the context of what began in the Upper Room the night before does it become clear: It refers to the Eucharistic sacrifice.
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What was Jesus' purpose? Throughout the Bible God repeats phrases such as, "So you will know that I am God," and "That you may know that I am Lord," and "Then you will know I am Lord," and so forth. I believe what He finished was what the Father sent Him to do. I offer the following...
John 6:29 NKJV
Jesus answered them, “This is the work of God, that you believe in him whom he has sent.”
John 6:35-40 NKJV
Jesus said to them, “I am the bread of life; whoever comes to me shall not hunger, and whoever believes in me shall never thirst. But I said to you that you have seen me and yet do not believe. All that the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never cast out. For I have come down from heaven, not to do my own will but the will of him who sent me. And this is the will of him who sent me, that I should lose nothing of all that he has given me, but raise it up on the last day. For this is the will of my Father, that everyone who looks on the Son and believes in him should have eternal life, and I will raise him up on the last day.”
John 6:66-69 NKJV
After this many of his disciples turned back and no longer walked with him. So Jesus said to the twelve, “Do you want to go away as well?” Simon Peter answered him, “Lord, to whom shall we go? You have the words of eternal life, and we have believed, and have come to know, that you are the Holy One of God.”
John 12:44-50 NKJV
And Jesus cried out and said, “Whoever believes in me, believes not in me but in him who sent me. And whoever sees me sees him who sent me. I have come into the world as light, so that whoever believes in me may not remain in darkness. If anyone hears my words and does not keep them, I do not judge him; for I did not come to judge the world but to save the world. The one who rejects me and does not receive my words has a judge; the word that I have spoken will judge him on the last day. For I have not spoken on my own authority, but the Father who sent me has himself given me a commandment—what to say and what to speak. And I know that his commandment is eternal life. What I say, therefore, I say as the Father has told me.”
John 13:31-35 NKJV
When he had gone out, Jesus said, “Now is the Son of Man glorified, and God is glorified in him. If God is glorified in him, God will also glorify him in himself, and glorify him at once. Little children, yet a little while I am with you. You will seek me, and just as I said to the Jews, so now I also say to you, ‘Where I am going you cannot come.’ A new commandment I give to you, that you love one another: just as I have loved you, you also are to love one another. By this all people will know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another.”
John 17:1-4 NKJV
When Jesus had spoken these words, he lifted up his eyes to heaven, and said, “Father, the hour has come; glorify your Son that the Son may glorify you, since you have given him authority over all flesh, to give eternal life to all whom you have given him. And this is eternal life, that they know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom you have sent. I glorified you on earth, having accomplished the work that you gave me to do.
The bible is simple to understand --- I agree.
Here's why I posted this question:
I am hearing too many these days understand this word of Jesus from the cross as meaning that Jesus finished everything...
He finsihed all of God's works...
Works that may be required of us.
He finished what God could require of us...
Jesus "did it all"....all "is finshed"
in the sense that there's nothing left for us to do.
This is wrong.
It IS very important to talk about these things nowadays because some churches are teaching incorrect doctrine....
and I'm not sure why.
I'd say to fill the pews...
or maybe they really believe this...I don't know.
Walpole
Member
No one is denying He finished what the Father sent Him to do. What is being discussed is what exactly was finished when He uttered the words, "It is finished" on Good Friday.
My contention is what happened on Good Friday began on Holy Thursday. Without the context of Holy Thursday, what happened on Good Friday was nothing more than a brutal Roman execution. It is only when you understand what took place on Holy Thursday do the words, "It is finished" find their meaning.
Walpole
Member
Great post. Entire religious sects have been founded on the idea that one merely believing in "the finished work of Christ" renders one saved.
Here is such an example from the most popular Evangelical preacher of our own times...
---> https://billygraham.org/devotion/the-finished-work/
Yet we know the work of Christ was not finished on the Cross. The story does not end there. As St. Paul said, if Christ had not risen, our faith is in vain and we are still in our sins. (cf. 1 Cor 15:17)
"It is finished" absolutely refers to the atonement (blood Atonement) for sin as Jesus fulfilled the sacrificial part of the law being made the final blood sacrifice as He made atonement for everyone's sin that believe in Him as Lord and Savior. As soon as Jesus said "It is finished" He hung His head and gave up the ghost (died) as at that time all had been fulfilled in Him.
Leviticus 17:11 For the life of the flesh is in the blood: and I have given it to you upon the altar to make an atonement for your souls: for it is the blood that maketh an atonement for the soul.
Hebrews 9:28 So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation.
Hebrews 10:12 But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God; 13 From henceforth expecting till his enemies be made his footstool. 14 For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.
Luke 23:44 And it was about the sixth hour, and there was a darkness over all the earth until the ninth hour. 45 And the sun was darkened, and the veil of the temple was rent in the midst. 46 And when Jesus had cried with a loud voice, he said, Father, into thy hands I commend my spirit: and having said thus, he gave up the ghost.
John 19:27 Then saith he to the disciple, Behold thy mother! And from that hour that disciple took her unto his own home. 28 Jesus knowing that all things were now accomplished, that the scripture might be fulfilled, saith, I thirst. 29 Now there was set a vessel full of vinegar: and they filled a sponge with vinegar, and put it upon hyssop, and put it to his mouth. 30 When Jesus therefore had received the vinegar, he said, It is finished: and he bowed his head, and gave up the ghost.
1 Peter 3:18 For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:
W, actually what he says is true....
We can't depend on our fluffy feelings regarding God,,, we have to depend on His word,,, on His Son's teachings.
I believe what you're referring to is the last line about how we're to believe in Jesus to be saved.
Problem is, what does believe mean?
Walking down an Isle?
Believing in some mental way?
Believing Jesus did it all with His finished work?
What exactly.... Is what we can't seem to agree on.
Agreed FHG.
But do you agree that the resurrection was necessary and should be considered in some sense?
Great scripture BTW.
In the eyes of the disciples at that time it was nothing more to them other than being a brutal Roman execution. During the Passover when the disciples were gathered with Jesus they had no clue this would be the last supper they would have with Jesus.
They didn't understand the breaking of the bread or the drinking of the wine other than what Jesus explained to what each represented. All they knew was Jesus told them to continue to do this in remembrance of Him. When Jesus was led away by the Roman guards the disciples fled away from Jesus in fear they to would be put in prison as one of His followers, Matthew 26-17-56.
It would not be until Jesus hung on the cross and said "It is finished" that all things were then fulfilled in what God purposed for His Son Christ Jesus. It wouldn't be until the upper room that their Spiritual eyes were finally opened to who Jesus truly is. Communion, just as it was at the last supper is a memorial we keep in remembrance of what Christ went through for us for making atonement for our sin as we keep this until He returns, 1 Corinthians 11:23-29.
The resurrection of Jesus was absolutely necessary in order to fulfill what Jesus said in John 14:25-29 and the prophecy of Jesus now sitting at the right hand of God until all His enemies become His footstool, Psalms 110.
28 After this Jesus, knowing that all was now finished, said (to fulfil the scripture), “I thirst.” 29 A bowl full of vinegar stood there; so they put a sponge full of the vinegar on hyssop and held it to his mouth. 30 When Jesus had received the vinegar, he said, “It is finished”; and he bowed his head and gave up his spirit. John 19:28-30 RSV
Jesus, knowing all was now finished, said, "I thirst". Does that answer your question?
He's on the cross. Knowing all was now finished, he says, "I thirst". They give him vinegar. Prophecy fulfilled. He says, “It is finished”; and he bows his head and he gives up his spirit.
Yes, he said this before he died. But his death was not his work. His death was Satan's work, through those who wanted to kill him.
So when Jesus said, "It is finished", he is referring to his work.
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Are we going to believe everything that comes out of the pulpit as the spirit of Jezebel is very active, or should we be believeing that which is already written. Even though Jesus sits at the right hand of God, not all things are finished yet according to the prophecies that Jesus has yet to fulfill in the end of days. Until we see Him coming in the air we must continue our witness and testify of Christ.
ezra
Member
not every pulpit is the spirit of Jezebel ..this is exactly why i did not want to answer in a different post
not so sure as when he said it is finished .he was talking about his return . the payment for our sins was paid in full at the cross... the Resurrection made it possible for us to be saved
2 Now if Christ be preached that he rose from the dead, how say some among you that there is no resurrection of the dead?
13 But if there be no resurrection of the dead, then is Christ not risen:
14 And if Christ be not risen, then is our preaching vain, and your faith is also vain.
I don't understand the importance of your point you are trying to make here? Of course He had not died yet nor had He been raised from His grave, but yet God's purpose in sending Christ down to earth was finished so that everyone who believes in Jesus as Lord and Savior can have eternal life through Him. Isaiah Chapter 53 was the prophecy given in the OT and fulfilled in the NT in John 19:30 that brings us to John 3:16.
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