ezra
Member
neither do theyI don't understand the importance of your point you are trying to make here
Join For His Glory for a discussion on how
https://christianforums.net/threads/a-vessel-of-honor.110278/
https://christianforums.net/threads/psalm-70-1-save-me-o-god-lord-help-me-now.108509/
Read through the following study by Tenchi for more on this topic
https://christianforums.net/threads/without-the-holy-spirit-we-can-do-nothing.109419/
Join Sola Scriptura for a discussion on the subject
https://christianforums.net/threads/anointed-preaching-teaching.109331/#post-1912042
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neither do theyI don't understand the importance of your point you are trying to make here
not every pulpit is the spirit of Jezebel ..this is exactly why i did not want to answer in a different post not so sure as when he said it is finished .he was talking about his return . the payment for our sins was paid in full at the cross... the Resurrection made it possible for us to be saved
2 Now if Christ be preached that he rose from the dead, how say some among you that there is no resurrection of the dead?
13 But if there be no resurrection of the dead, then is Christ not risen:
14 And if Christ be not risen, then is our preaching vain, and your faith is also vain.
Also, in re to what you said to Walpole in post no. 75...The resurrection of Jesus was absolutely necessary in order to fulfill what Jesus said in John 14:25-29 and the prophecy of Jesus now sitting at the right hand of God until all His enemies become His footstool, Psalms 110.
The above sounds correct to me.28 After this Jesus, knowing that all was now finished, said (to fulfil the scripture), “I thirst.” 29 A bowl full of vinegar stood there; so they put a sponge full of the vinegar on hyssop and held it to his mouth. 30 When Jesus had received the vinegar, he said, “It is finished”; and he bowed his head and gave up his spirit. John 19:28-30 RSV
Jesus, knowing all was now finished, said, "I thirst". Does that answer your question?
He's on the cross. Knowing all was now finished, he says, "I thirst". They give him vinegar. Prophecy fulfilled. He says, “It is finished”; and he bows his head and he gives up his spirit.
Yes, he said this before he died. But his death was not his work. His death was Satan's work, through those who wanted to kill him.
So when Jesus said, "It is finished", he is referring to his work.
Two points...Are we going to believe everything that comes out of the pulpit as the spirit of Jezebel is very active, or should we be believeing that which is already written. Even though Jesus sits at the right hand of God, not all things are finished yet according to the prophecies that Jesus has yet to fulfill in the end of days. Until we see Him coming in the air we must continue our witness and testify of Christ.
Two points...
I agree with the above...
although IT IS FINISHED refers to the work Jesus was sent on earth to finish by our Father in heaven...the work of saving mankind from the fear of death and sin.
I think I didn't explain myself correctly as to how some believe the finished work of Jesus to be....
They mean that THEY need to NOTHING in their life....no WORKS are necessary, in fact. works is a bad word.
This because Jesus did it all...so if Jesus did it ALL, there is nothing left for us to do but to "believe" in Him.
Of course persons that think this way do not know the meaning of the word believe....they believe as the demons believed.
Sorry for the bad explanation...
All good ....It just amazes me when Jesus said "It is finished" then hung His head and gave up the Ghost seem to think there was so much more to it.
John3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. 17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved. 18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. 19 And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. 20 For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved. 21 But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God.
The reason I highlighted vs. 20 is because the devils believed there is one God, but yet they hate the light (Christ Jesus), because the finished work of Christ on the cross gave a way for all to be redeemed of their sin through the sacrifice Christ made for all who will believe and come unto Him. There is a big difference between believe and coming to Him. Many believe, but yet do not come to Him as they are not willing to give up their evil ways.
James 2:19 Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.
W, actually what he says is true....
We can't depend on our fluffy feelings regarding God,,, we have to depend on His word,,, on His Son's teachings.
I believe what you're referring to is the last line about how we're to believe in Jesus to be saved.
Problem is, what does believe mean?
Walking down an Isle?
Believing in some mental way?
Believing Jesus did it all with His finished work?
What exactly.... Is what we can't seem to agree on.
"It is finished" absolutely refers to the atonement (blood Atonement) for sin as Jesus fulfilled the sacrificial part of the law being made the final blood sacrifice as He made atonement for everyone's sin that believe in Him as Lord and Savior. As soon as Jesus said "It is finished" He hung His head and gave up the ghost (died) as at that time all had been fulfilled in Him.
Leviticus 17:11 For the life of the flesh is in the blood: and I have given it to you upon the altar to make an atonement for your souls: for it is the blood that maketh an atonement for the soul.
Hebrews 9:28 So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation.
Hebrews 10:12 But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God; 13 From henceforth expecting till his enemies be made his footstool. 14 For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.
Luke 23:44 And it was about the sixth hour, and there was a darkness over all the earth until the ninth hour. 45 And the sun was darkened, and the veil of the temple was rent in the midst. 46 And when Jesus had cried with a loud voice, he said, Father, into thy hands I commend my spirit: and having said thus, he gave up the ghost.
John 19:27 Then saith he to the disciple, Behold thy mother! And from that hour that disciple took her unto his own home. 28 Jesus knowing that all things were now accomplished, that the scripture might be fulfilled, saith, I thirst. 29 Now there was set a vessel full of vinegar: and they filled a sponge with vinegar, and put it upon hyssop, and put it to his mouth. 30 When Jesus therefore had received the vinegar, he said, It is finished: and he bowed his head, and gave up the ghost.
1 Peter 3:18 For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:
In the eyes of the disciples at that time it was nothing more to them other than being a brutal Roman execution. During the Passover when the disciples were gathered with Jesus they had no clue this would be the last supper they would have with Jesus.
They didn't understand the breaking of the bread or the drinking of the wine other than what Jesus explained to what each represented. All they knew was Jesus told them to continue to do this in remembrance of Him. When Jesus was led away by the Roman guards the disciples fled away from Jesus in fear they to would be put in prison as one of His followers, Matthew 26-17-56.
It would not be until Jesus hung on the cross and said "It is finished" that all things were then fulfilled in what God purposed for His Son Christ Jesus. It wouldn't be until the upper room that their Spiritual eyes were finally opened to who Jesus truly is. Communion, just as it was at the last supper is a memorial we keep in remembrance of what Christ went through for us for making atonement for our sin as we keep this until He returns, 1 Corinthians 11:23-29.
Can God abandon Himself?This would apply to number 4 of His words from the cross.
It could also mean that He felt abandoned by the Father?
Some believe He meant that He had been betrayed by His very brethren (the Jews) and that the Father had abandoned Him to this hungry mob whom Jesus thought were His countrymen.
So what you're saying is this:Please read the link again. The very first sentence is what you objected to in a previous thread. (Here is your post.) Here are the words of this popular Evangelical:
"A person is saved by trusting in the finished work of Christ on the cross, and not by bodily sensations and religious ecstasy." (Source)
Once again, we know the work of Christ was not finished on the Cross. The story does not end there. As St. Paul said, if Christ had not risen, our faith is in vain and we are still in our sins. (cf. 1 Cor 15:17)
Can God pray to Himself?Can God abandon Himself?
I have heard that doctrine before, and I do not agree with it.
I don't believe that Christ had a weak moment.
As I quoted Psa.22:23
For He hath not despised nor abhorred the affliction of the afflicted, neither hath He HID His face from Him,but when He cried unto Him,
HE HEARD.
That was the reason He came..
So what you're saying is this:
The sacrifice began on Thursday when Jesus declared He would give His body and blood.
The sacrifice happened on Friday.
The work Jesus was sent to do here was not finished until Sunday (the resurrection).
I don't have a problem with this...however, you do have to explain why He said IT IS FINISHED while still on the cross...
Think of this:
Jesus did what HE was supposed to do.
The resurrection was powered by God Father.
(so was it a work of Jesus?)
But when Jesus hung on the cross, He had not yet died, nor rose from the dead. Ergo, "It is finished" has to refer to something already begun and which truly finished when He spoke those words.
I was referring to your post#33.Can God pray to Himself?
WHAT was the reason He came?
We're discussing what IT IS FINISHED means.
I think you're referring to
MY GOD, MY GOD, WHY HAVE YOU FORSAKEN ME....
It's not ME that suggested God abandoned Jesus.I was referring to your post#33.
Don't you believe that Jesus was God in the flesh?
I do!
He could had wiped all those people out.
What do we know of another dimension?
Just disagreeing with some folks, that think ,that God abandon Him, as you suggested.
The reason He came here was to be a sacrificial Lamb.
That part is finished, also to destroy him that had power of death, that is, the devil.
Heb.2:14
It's not ME that suggested God abandoned Jesus.
I don't make up my own theology as some do...I don't have a PhD after my name.
This idea that God abandoned Jesus on the cross is believed by theologians that have studied the bible at length.
What they say is that when Jesus took on the sins of the world...at that moment, God left Him because God cannot be in the presence of sin.
I don't know what Jesus meant when He said My God, My God....
I do know what He meant when He said:
It Is Finished.
I agree with what you stated above.
He conquered death....
He broke the yoke of slavery to sin.
He did all He was meant to do from Genesis 3:17
I agree. I had to leave a church...I know all about studying different opinions.Yes, but even scholars are divided on many things.
You have to get more than one opinion, and let the spirit guide you to truth.
Peace