Bible Study Grace

[I_love_Springtime]

The biggest deception in Christianity today is addressed by Paul in Galatians. In particular, Galatians 2:21-3:3.

Galatians 2:21-3:3
I do not treat the grace of God as meaningless. For if keeping the law could make us right with God, then there was no need for Christ to die. Foolish Galatians! Who has cast an evil spell on you? For the meaning of Jesus Christ’s death was made as clear to you as if you had seen a picture of his death on the cross. Let me ask you this one question: Did you receive the Holy Spirit by obeying the Law of Moses?? Of course not! You received the Spirit because you believed the message you heard about Christ. How foolish can you be? After starting your new lives in the Spirit, why are you now trying to become perfect by your own human effort??

So what is this message of the cross we heard about Christ? Is it that since He died for our sins we should try to stop sinning by our own efforts? No, the message is that He gave his life up so we could find forgiveness for sins, and that a promised Holy Spirit would perform miracles of deliverance for us from sin. This is the message.

So we can stop beating ourselves up for not being perfect - as if we don’t need grace!! Or do we know what grace even is?? Grace saves us through faith in Jesus, for grace says “You are forgiven even though you have a sin problem.” In fact, that's how we got saved!! Believing in the message of the cross despite our sinfulness.

The true fallen-from-grace Christian cries out, after reading this passage from Galatians, “But you’re not supposed to sin that grace may abound!!!!! Jesus doesn’t condone sin!!!! You better watch out!!!!” They’re so afraid of not sinning that grace may abound that they aren’t using grace at all!! What else was grace designed to give us anyway? It's for salvation through the forgiveness of our sins. There are instances where we just cannot control ourselves. Anger, lust, addictions, and unbelief and doubt are too powerful for us. Why? Because we are sinners. We can do our best to walk in the Spirit, but sometimes it's just not in us to obey because the sin just happens. It overtakes us.

Practically speaking, our goal isn't to become perfect Christians. It's to attempt to walk in the Spirit (which is totally NOT self effort) but if we fall we have forgiveness of sins.

No, Jesus doesn’t condone sin. He died for sin. Simple as that. So don’t worry about keeping the law in order to be ok with God. Take your sins you commit to the cross to find forgiveness. Be thankful for that forgiveness and love the Lord who died for you. Don’t be a dog of self mutilation in order to keep the law, thinking this pleases God. It’s all self righteous lack of faith! Instead, trust Jesus to take your sins away.

 

[Ernest T. Bass]

1) where does Gal 2:21- Gal 3:3 say that the "Holy Spirit would perform miracles of deliverance for us from sin"?

2) you post " So don’t worry about keeping the law in order to be ok with God." As I read Romans 6, Paul's point is that "grace alone" does not save, that salvation takes both God's grace and man's obedience. (Obedience to Christ's NT law not obedience to Moses' OT law)

 

[I_love_Springtime]

Galatians 3:5 in the KJV says the Holy Spirit ministers to us and works miracles among us. The Holy Spirit is who empowers us to overcome sin - not our hardcore obedience and effort. Man's obedience is just that. Man's effort. Mix it with grace and you're mixing law and grace. I'm talking especially when you're gritting your teeth trying to obey and you can't, because it is no longer the Spirit in you doing it but you yourself trying to do it. That's the kind of obedience that doesn't work.

 

[I_love_Springtime]

The meaning of grace has more to do with God’s grace to forgive sin than grace to overcome sin. It does both, but the most unadulterated form of grace is forgiveness for sin. The meaning of grace is always scandalous. People get in each other’s grill over being scandalous. They did with Jesus too.

 

[Who Me]

Practically speaking, our goal isn't to become perfect Christians. It's to attempt to walk in the Spirit (which is totally NOT self effort) but if we fall we have forgiveness of sins.

Yes you are right we are saved not because of our efforts but by the grace and mercy of God.
Our resulting good works are merely us showing we love Jesus and are trying to obey him.

The Holy Spirit is who empowers us to overcome sin

Here if you mean 1 Cor10:13 then yes it is the spirit working in us to enable us to escape from temptation.

 

[Ernest T. Bass]

Galatians 3:5 in the KJV says the Holy Spirit ministers to us and works miracles among us. The Holy Spirit is who empowers us to overcome sin - not our hardcore obedience and effort. Man's obedience is just that. Man's effort. Mix it with grace and you're mixing law and grace. I'm talking especially when you're gritting your teeth trying to obey and you can't, because it is no longer the Spirit in you doing it but you yourself trying to do it. That's the kind of obedience that doesn't work.

God does not require sinless perfection from man but a simple faithful obedience.

Per Rom 6:1-2, not keeping God's NT law is sin yet a Christian is one who is dead to sin. So how can it be possible for a Christian to be dead to sin yet while continuing to sin by not keeping God's NT law/commands?

Paul further in Rom 6 points out if one is not obeying then he is serving 'sin unto death' Rom 6:16. Each one of us is either serving 'sin unto death" (condemnation) or serving "obedience unto righteousness" (salvation). Therefore obedience is necessary to keep from serving 'sin unto death' and God's grace is necessary for one's obedience is not going to be perfect. So grace and obedience go like hand in glove and not antagonistic to each other.

 

[Who Me]

So how can it be possible for a Christian to be dead to sin yet while continuing to sin by not keeping God's NT law/commands?

Good question.
Except the commands of the law are all OT laws mainly the ten commandments. The N T commands of Jesus are to love as I have loved, sacrifically and to show our love by our obedience to Jesus's commands.

Our sins have been dealt with by Jesus, we obey the ten commandment because we love him and because they tell us what sin is, which helps us in our walk.

 

[Ernest T. Bass]

Good question.
Except the commands of the law are all OT laws mainly the ten commandments. The N T commands of Jesus are to love as I have loved, sacrifically and to show our love by our obedience to Jesus's commands.

Our sins have been dealt with by Jesus, we obey the ten commandment because we love him and because they tell us what sin is, which helps us in our walk.

Christ took the OT law out of the way replacing it with His NT. Obedience to His NT is what keeps one from sinning, keeps one from serving sin unto death.

Again, if one is not obeying Christ one then is serving sin unto death. Christ's death on the cross paved a way for man to have his sins remitted, but only those that obey Christ (Heb 5:9) are taking advantage of Christ's death.

 

[I_love_Springtime]

by the way, after careful consideration, knowing these posts are permanent and can be seen by people everywhere, I want everyone to know something important about my original post and these others: I am not preaching or instructing in these posts necessarily, even if I use the terms you and we. . These thoughts are open for debate to help me learn too. I am not trying to preach anything false. The forums are a way for me to get out there what has been brewing in my mind. I need feedback. So don’t take anything as you would pure scripture!!



Christ’s NT commands are these: Christ said to love God and love one another. In Galatians 5:13 Paul tells us we have freedom. But in order to love one another, not to indulge in the sins of the flesh.
So if someone has a weakness in lusting, let’s say. I believe God is saying that since we desire to not lust, and this is proof we delight in God’s law, even though we cannot keep it, we are in Christ. So if we drive ourselves crazy, trying not to lust because we’re not supposed to, we are trying in our own effort to obey God’s law. And we will probably fall into sin. Grace still forgives as we look at the cross. But by the Spirit if we grow to love one another we won’t want to lust. I’m just saying if we find ourselves trying by our own effort all the time, and depending on that, and falling, we ought not beat ourselves up so badly. Grace forgives.
I also think there is a difference between indulging in the sins of the flesh, and giving into the individual temptation if we really struggle in some area. Again, grace is there to forgive.

 

[for_his_glory]

Grace is undeserved, unmerited favor given by the power of God even though we do not deserve it. It was God's grace that found favor in Noah when it repented God that He created man and was about to destroy them, Genesis 6:5-8. It's God's grace through Christ Jesus that we are no longer under the curse of the law, Ephesians 2:8-10; Galatians 3:10-14.

Sin will always dwell in the flesh for that is its nature, but if we sin willingly after knowing the truth then there is no more sacrifice for that sin, Hebrews 6:26, 27. This is why we need to be walking in the Spirit as we crucify this flesh daily, Galatians 5:16-18.

Amazing grace how sweet the sound that saved a wrench like me.

 

[humble soul]

You mean I don't get any credit for my awesome efforts? But..

 

[for_his_glory]

You mean I don't get any credit for my awesome efforts? But..

No, because you are a grumpy old man, but I think I see a very small smile trying to form out of the corners of your mouth.............oops, it was a little mustard, LOL.

 

[for_his_glory]

You mean I don't get any credit for my awesome efforts? But..

Nope, you're a grumpy old man, but if you stand on your head that grumpy frown would turn upside down and then maybe, just maybe you might get a very wee small fraction of credit, LOL.

 

[humble soul]

Nope, you're a grumpy old man, but if you stand on your head that grumpy frown would turn upside down and then maybe, just maybe you might get a very wee small fraction of credit, LOL.

I am trying my darndest but ain't no grace comin' my way glory. The Lord don't love grumpy faces?

 

[jerry63935]

The meaning of grace has more to do with God’s grace to forgive sin than grace to overcome sin. It does both, but the most unadulterated form of grace is forgiveness for sin. The meaning of grace is always scandalous. People get in each other’s grill over being scandalous. They did with Jesus too.

GOD RICHES AT CHRIST EXPENSE === GRACE . grace is there when you sin ..not for you to sin .to many use grace as excuse /reason to live in sin... that is not grace Romans 5:20

 

[for_his_glory]

I am trying my darndest but ain't no grace comin' my way glory. The Lord don't love grumpy faces?

Then thou must change thy avatar to a happier face and we shall revolt against the grumpy old man and run him out of the village once and for all and the children shall dance and sing again. Let you be about it immediately.

I really need to quit watching old movies from the 30's, LOL.

 

[Ernest T. Bass]

You mean I don't get any credit for my awesome efforts? But..

If your efforts were perfect, flawlessly sinless then your reward would be owed to you (earned) and not of grace Rom 4:4. You would have perfect works to boast about, Eph 2:9.

But if you sin........

 

[Doug Brents]

The biggest deception in Christianity today is addressed by Paul in Galatians. In particular, Galatians 2:21-3:3.

Galatians 2:21-3:3
I do not treat the grace of God as meaningless. For if keeping the law could make us right with God, then there was no need for Christ to die. Foolish Galatians! Who has cast an evil spell on you? For the meaning of Jesus Christ’s death was made as clear to you as if you had seen a picture of his death on the cross. Let me ask you this one question: Did you receive the Holy Spirit by obeying the Law of Moses?? Of course not! You received the Spirit because you believed the message you heard about Christ. How foolish can you be? After starting your new lives in the Spirit, why are you now trying to become perfect by your own human effort??

So what is this message of the cross we heard about Christ? Is it that since He died for our sins we should try to stop sinning by our own efforts? No, the message is that He gave his life up so we could find forgiveness for sins, and that a promised Holy Spirit would perform miracles of deliverance for us from sin. This is the message.

So we can stop beating ourselves up for not being perfect - as if we don’t need grace!! Or do we know what grace even is?? Grace saves us through faith in Jesus, for grace says “You are forgiven even though you have a sin problem.” In fact, that's how we got saved!! Believing in the message of the cross despite our sinfulness.

The true fallen-from-grace Christian cries out, after reading this passage from Galatians, “But you’re not supposed to sin that grace may abound!!!!! Jesus doesn’t condone sin!!!! You better watch out!!!!” They’re so afraid of not sinning that grace may abound that they aren’t using grace at all!! What else was grace designed to give us anyway? It's for salvation through the forgiveness of our sins. There are instances where we just cannot control ourselves. Anger, lust, addictions, and unbelief and doubt are too powerful for us. Why? Because we are sinners. We can do our best to walk in the Spirit, but sometimes it's just not in us to obey because the sin just happens. It overtakes us.

Practically speaking, our goal isn't to become perfect Christians. It's to attempt to walk in the Spirit (which is totally NOT self effort) but if we fall we have forgiveness of sins.

No, Jesus doesn’t condone sin. He died for sin. Simple as that. So don’t worry about keeping the law in order to be ok with God. Take your sins you commit to the cross to find forgiveness. Be thankful for that forgiveness and love the Lord who died for you. Don’t be a dog of self mutilation in order to keep the law, thinking this pleases God. It’s all self righteous lack of faith! Instead, trust Jesus to take your sins away.

You are correct. We will not be perfect in our obedience to God even after we are saved. We are expected to try to be, but we, and God, know that we will never be able to live perfectly. The passage in Rom 6:1 is pointing out that we should strive to be perfect, and not just relax and let sin live in us, because we have become slaves to God, and should no longer give ourselves over to be slaves to sin.

But we also see in Gal 5 that if we continually strive to be walking in the Light, as Jesus is in the Light, then His blood continually cleanses us from all the sins we do commit. It is not our goodness that saves us. No, it is the Goodness, Holiness, and Perfection of Jesus that replaces our brokenness and makes us holy as he is Holy. But we are to strive to be perfect, as He is perfect, and not allow sin to continue to live in our body, heart, or mind.

 

[Who Me]

Christ took the OT law out of the way replacing it with His NT. Obedience to His NT

If one is obeying Jesus, then one is keeping the ten commandments.
Not because they gain us anything, not because they do anything, but because in obedience we show our love for Jesus.

 

[Ernest T. Bass]

If one is obeying Jesus, then one is keeping the ten commandments.
Not because they gain us anything, not because they do anything, but because in obedience we show our love for Jesus.

The 10 commandments are part of the OT law of Moses. One obeying Jesus is keeping His NT laws/commands. Continued obedience is necessary for one to become saved and remain saved. Again, if one is not obeying then he is serving 'sin unto death' rather than serving obedience unto righteousness Rom 6:16.