But, how do you know billions have never heard the name Jesus?
Christian Forums
This is a sample guest message. Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!
-
-
Guest, Join Papa Zoom today for some uplifting biblical encouragement! --> Daily Verses
Tasted Death for every Man !
- Thread starter brightfame52
- Start date
What would have been the purpose of Christ death if only for Himself?
John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
John 3:17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
ezrider
Member
Already gave you one. Do you need another? Do you lack the imagination to consider the reasons for yourself?
Fastfredy0
2024 Supporter
https://reachbeyond.org/Advocate/RBActionGuide.pdf They (Joshua Project) say over 2 billion
More than 2 billion people have never heard the salvation message. They haven’t even had the chance to accept or reject the love of Jesus and his work for them on the cross. They don’t know anything about it!But, more sobering is the fact that they are on their way to eternity separated from God. Sadly, 70,000 people every day, without Christ.
You’ll find 90% of these people living in the most gospel-resistant parts of the world. It’s dangerous to tell people about Jesus in these places.
- They live in some of the hardest to reach places, isolated from any Christian influence. You’ll find 90% of these people living in the most gospel-resistant parts of the world. It’s dangerous to tell people about Jesus in these places.
- They live in countries you’ve certainly heard of, but may not be able to find on a map if you had to. Other countries are prominent.Nearly 500,000 villages in India have no Christian presence.Ninety percent of unreached people live in places resistant to the gospel
- According to the Joshua Project there are more than 4,000 people groups that are less than two percent Christian.
- More than 500 people groups worldwide have no Christian presence and no one attempting to reach them
If God loves everyone as many say John 3:16 states, why does God not ensure these 2 billion+ people don't get a chance to exercise their "freewill"?
If God Died for everyone as many say 1 Timothy 2:3-4, John 3:16 states, why does God not ensure these 2 billion+ people don't get a chance to exercise their "freewill"?
God's agape love is defined as 'volition' to favor. An unbiased observer would have to set the definition of God's love (volition to favor) very low when he observes that 2 billion+ people are given NO OPPORTUNITY to exercise they 'freewill' in order to not go to HELL for eternity.
Aside: one of the main doctrines of Arminians/freewill adherants is "it would be fair to assign responsibility to men" if God didn't give them a chance. FOR 2 BILLION+ PEOPLE, GOD HAS GIVEN NO CHANCE.
If they have never heard of Jesus, they also never heard of the Mosaic Law.
It is written that "by the Law is the knowledge of sin". (Rom 3:20)
No Law, no sin to be judged unfaithful to.
Any one who has really never heard of Jesus will be judged by their own consciences.
Without a knowledge of Jesus Christ, their salvation depends on how they conducted themselves towards their fellow man...just as our salvation does..
Did this group actually go out and interview 2 billion people, as I doubt they have. It only seems speculation to say 2 billion.
If they are so unreachable then why did Jesus say the Gospel will be preached in every nation and then the end will come, Matthew 24:14. Many faithful servants of the Lord are going into the deepest parts of all the world in every nation approaching those hidden villages and many have died a martyr's death by doing so, but at least they heard the name of Jesus and none will have an excuse before the Lord on judgement day.
Fastfredy0
2024 Supporter
You seem to be unfamiliar with sampling and estimation; rather,
you seem to be avoiding the crux of the matter by focusing of a minor detail. I agree that it is impossible to know the exact number of people who have not heard of Christ. It is an estimate. Yet it is reasonable and undeniably credible.
I will illustrate. A Google search estimates in 2019 there are 7.7 billion people. Now you could say, "did someone go out and count 2 billion people, as I doubt they have". The answer is obvious. No one has counted the population of the earth directly. But one can still conclude that there are 7.7 billion people. Now, it may be 7.4 billion or 7.9 billion, but the point remains there is a large number and when talking about the population of the world it is reasonable to use such numbers.
Again, simple statistics.
I agree Jesus is the Lord of the living and the dead as He died for all mankind, but it is only those who by faith that have come to Him while they were alive that makes Christ the Lord of the living and those who died in Christ.
I can't agree He died just for Himself, but that He sacrificed His own life that whosoever believes in Him will have eternal life with Him.
John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
John 3:17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
John 3:18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
John 3:19 And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.
Fastfredy0
2024 Supporter
You are going on a tangent just like you did when you said the Joshua project did not count everyone that has not heard of Christ (est. 2 billion) and therefore implied the number can be discarded.
I didn't say that all people are unreachable and therefore you question is based on a false premise. I said currently 2 billion people have never heard of Christ. I said billions have died that never heard of Christ. I said we are saved by faith and faith includes knowledge of Christ and therefore we can conclude billions of people are in HELL that had NO CHANCE of salvation.
Agree. But you evade the point I have made repeatedly. I am talking about the billions that have NOT heard of Christ. Not the one that have (or will).
Agree. But you evade the point I have made repeatedly. I am talking about the billions that have NOT heard of Christ. Not the one that have (or will).
Aside: Everyone is without excuse regardless of whether or not they have heard of Christ. Evidence: We all die. (well, Enoch and Elijah are exceptions)
ezrider
Member
You keep wielding around John 3:16. Is that your sword or your shield? It's a shame you wield them so recklessly.
Of course you can't agree, your own ego won't let you.
ezrider
Member
Remember ye not the former things,
neither consider the things of old.
Behold, I will do a new thing;
now it shall spring forth; shall ye not know it?
I will even make a way in the wilderness,
and rivers in the desert.
The beast of the field shall honour me,
the dragons and the owls:
because I give waters in the wilderness,
and rivers in the desert,
to give drink to my people, my chosen.
This people have I formed for myself;
they shall shew forth my praise.
for_his_glory, who did he form this people for?
neither consider the things of old.
Behold, I will do a new thing;
now it shall spring forth; shall ye not know it?
I will even make a way in the wilderness,
and rivers in the desert.
The beast of the field shall honour me,
the dragons and the owls:
because I give waters in the wilderness,
and rivers in the desert,
to give drink to my people, my chosen.
This people have I formed for myself;
they shall shew forth my praise.
for_his_glory, who did he form this people for?
ezrider
Member
Thou hast not brought me the small cattle of thy burnt offerings;
neither hast thou honoured me with thy sacrifices.
I have not caused thee to serve with an offering,
nor wearied thee with incense.
Thou hast bought me no sweet cane with money,
neither hast thou filled me with the fat of thy sacrifices:
but thou hast made me to serve with thy sins,
thou hast wearied me with thine iniquities.
I, even I, am he that blotteth out thy transgressions for mine own sake,
and will not remember thy sins.
for_his_glory, for who's sake did he blot out you transgressions and forgive your sins? For who's sake did he taste Death?
neither hast thou honoured me with thy sacrifices.
I have not caused thee to serve with an offering,
nor wearied thee with incense.
Thou hast bought me no sweet cane with money,
neither hast thou filled me with the fat of thy sacrifices:
but thou hast made me to serve with thy sins,
thou hast wearied me with thine iniquities.
I, even I, am he that blotteth out thy transgressions for mine own sake,
and will not remember thy sins.
for_his_glory, for who's sake did he blot out you transgressions and forgive your sins? For who's sake did he taste Death?
I get what you are saying here, but to even estimate 2 billion people have never heard the name of Jesus could never be calculated as even an estimate. The Gospel has gone out into the world since the day of Pentecost and now increased in every nation on every continent in the world. Grant it there are many remote villages that have never been found, but only God would know their heart so there can be no judgement from us whether they are saved or not by the invisible things of God's nature, Romans 1:20.
This we can agree on, except Enoch and Elijah, but that's a topic within its self.
Will move past the 2 billion as it is not that relevant since Christ died for all mankind.
Seeing that the word of God is my sword then yes I will carry it with my shield. What I am talking about is the whosoever in John 3:16 as being all mankind that Christ died for. Jesus did not die just for himself for why would anyone want to die just for themselves. What Jesus did was lay His life down so whosoever believes in Him will have life eternal with Him.
Not sure what your problem with this is all about.
For His own sake that we can have eternal life with Him through what was God's plan of salvation through Christ from the foundation of the world given to all who will by faith believe in God's only begotten Son Christ Jesus.
Those whom God did not include within the Elect
Last edited:
God and His Son Jesus' gift is for all men.
Some just refuse it, but it is/was still available to them.
God did not predestine the man (which individuals would be saved & lost), He predestined the plan (how men would be saved) - read again Acts 10:34-35; Eph. 1:3-12; Rom. 8:28-30; 10:9-17.
The Bible reveals that regarding free-will and predestination it is not one or the other, but rather both. That is, the Bible teaches both the free-will of man and God's election or predestination. Unfortunately the teachings and creeds of men have misdefined these Biblical concepts so that the impression is left that one cannot have both, but only one or the other. We must accept the whole counsel of God on this subject instead of the wisdom of men (Gal. 1:6-10; 1 Cor. 1:18-21).
Many people teach that man either has no free-will (fatalism) or limited amounts of it. The Bible teaches that every person with a moral capacity has the freedom of will to decide whether or not to obey God. Simply put, the Bible teaches that God elected (predestined or set in place) to save every soul who fears (respects) God and works righteousness, (Acts 10:34-35). That is, before time eternal, God predestined that men would be saved "in Christ" (Eph. 1:3-4, 7-12). God predestined the "plan" of human redemption (cf. Eph. 3:10-11).
Many people teach that man either has no free-will (fatalism) or limited amounts of it. The Bible teaches that every person with a moral capacity has the freedom of will to decide whether or not to obey God. Simply put, the Bible teaches that God elected (predestined or set in place) to save every soul who fears (respects) God and works righteousness, (Acts 10:34-35). That is, before time eternal, God predestined that men would be saved "in Christ" (Eph. 1:3-4, 7-12). God predestined the "plan" of human redemption (cf. Eph. 3:10-11).