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Is the vaccine effective?

Is the vaccine effective?

  • Yes

    Votes: 20 54.1%
  • No

    Votes: 6 16.2%
  • Better than none

    Votes: 2 5.4%
  • Worse than none

    Votes: 8 21.6%
  • Other (please specify)

    Votes: 1 2.7%

  • Total voters
    37

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I think it's more that you don't fully understand how vaccines and comorbity works.

Vaccines are designed to work with a virus, but of enough people are not vaccinated the disease can spread around enough to mutate beyond the parameters of the initial vaccines. Boosters are updates based on the mutations of a virus.

People are being urged to get the vaccine because it will slow down the general mutation rate in a population if we meet a herd immunity level.

That's generally around 77% if I remember correctly from my virology course.

As I said, because so many excuses are given as to why the vaccine doesn't work, you think people would understand what a ruse it is.

Now you blame those who don't get the vaccine because they allow the vaccine to mutate. Sure. Add a little statistics, and intelligence to throw on it to support the ruse. Mark Twain and lies come to mind.

How about this? Maybe if you just left the people's immune system alone to react naturally and accordingly, instead of destroying it by making people live in a bubble, all would have been well.

Maybe all these 'boosters' are the result of the person not having an immune system capeable anymore to act as it is suppossed to.

Quantrill
 
As I said, because so many excuses are given as to why the vaccine doesn't work, you think people would understand what a ruse it is.
You keep saying the vaccine doesn't work. It is working. Your complaint sounds to me like someone saying coats don't work because you can still feel a chill when it's-20 out. The vaccine has limits like everything in the world.

Now you blame those who don't get the vaccine because they allow the vaccine to mutate
Sure. Add a little statistics, and intelligence to throw on it to support the ruse. Mark Twain and lies come to mind.
You can calm the victim complex a little. I'm not blaming you, I'm just explaining why people are being urged to get a vaccine. Your state governor has already banned vaccine mandates
If you don't like people telling you the risks of being un vaccinated, im sorry to tell ya that nature doesn't care how sarcastic you are.

How about this? Maybe if you just left the people's immune system alone to react naturally and accordingly, instead of destroying it by making people live in a bubble, all would have been well.
Oh, that used to happen. Once vaccines came about the average life span went up and child mortality dropped through the floor. Your immune system is not magic and vaccines are not destroying it or putting it in a bubble. Your immune system only works if you survive the initial infection.

Maybe all these 'boosters' are the result of the person not having an immune system capeable anymore to act as it is suppossed to.

Quantrill
That's not how the immune system works. Your immune system is tempered based on its experience with various viruses and bacteria. Your immune system has to learn with everything that comes into the body. Vaccines are literally primers so if the virus does invade your body, your immune system already has a good idea how to destroy it.
 
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You keep saying the vaccine doesn't work. It is working. Your complaint sounds to me like someone saying coats don't work because you can still feel a chill when it's-20 out. The vaccine has limits like everything in the world.


You can calm the victim complex a little. I'm not blaming you, I'm just explaining why people are being urged to get a vaccine. Your state governor has already banned vaccine mandates
If you don't like people telling you the risks of being un vaccinated, im sorry to tell ya that nature doesn't care how sarcastic you are.


Oh, that used to happen. Once vaccines came about the average life span went up and child mortality dropped through the floor. Your immune system is not magic and vaccines are not destroying it or putting it in a bubble. Your immune system only works if you survive the initial infection.


That's not how the immune system works. Your immune system is tempered based on its experience with various viruses and bacteria. Your immune system has to learn with everything that comes into the body. Vaccines are literally primers so if the virus does invade your body, your immune system already has a good idea how to destroy it.

You know what? You are trying to flip his positioning on this issue because you're losing ground to him, lol. And you know it on some level. He's not complaining. He's not playing the victim. So stop trying to paint the Brother with that brush. That's what faith looks like man. That's what Wisdom sounds like. For those with ears to hear at least.

You have been seriously deceived and you bought in to it. I think maybe worldly knowledge (that you hold up as Champion, Lol!) may be one of the biggest deceptions ever. And there you are saying, well if you just take a bite of your favorite fruit then you'll be able to explain it to us. Man, it's the eating of that fruit that got us into trouble in the first place, so quit being a (probably unpaid) parrot and squawking, Ye shall not surely die but be as gods.

Mountains of textbooks and scientific papers can not and never will make the Word of God null and void. Perhaps you would fare better if you read his book rather than him reading yours.
 
16-17k didn't die from receiving the vaccine. The VEARS report this is based on reports that 16,766 people died after being vaccinated. A person who dies for any reason post vaccination is reported in those numbers.

The VAERS REPORT only reflects a small percentage (10%) of the actual number.


The COVID VACCINE can not be administered to humans safely.


There are no published animal trials for this vaccine, which takes 10-12 years.


Why doesnt the public have access to the trials done on animals.



BECAUSE IT DOESNT WORK!





JLB
 
But my oh my how we had to listen to how many died from aids over the years, which they did. Point being, Powell died from Cancer. But in todays political climate, it is much better to die of Covid. Makes more hay.

Quantrill
Don't deceive yourself.

 
The VAERS REPORT only reflects a small percentage (10%) of the actual number.
Based on what?

The COVID VACCINE can not be administered to humans safely.
I recieved it and nothing exploded. Millions have got it in the US and are fine.

There are no published animal trials for this vaccine, which takes 10-12 years.
I know, our last president helped to get it out due to the emergency status.

Why doesnt the public have access to the trials done on animals.
Isn't that like asking why we don't have baby pictures of someone before they were born?

BECAUSE IT DOESNT WORK!





JLB
,it seems to be working just fine.
 
You know what? You are trying to flip his positioning on this issue because you're losing ground to him, lol. And you know it on some level.
What ground did I lose? So fR his only arguments are based on a complete misunderstanding on how immunity works and misunderstanding how comorbitity works. That's it.


He's not complaining.
Yeah he is. He keeps going on about mandates and whiners....when he lives in a state with no mandates and. Governor that outright banned mandates.

He's not playing the victim. So stop trying to paint the Brother with that brush.
He keeps complaining about mandates that don't effect him.


That's what faith looks like man. That's what Wisdom sounds like. For those with ears to hear at least.
Complaining about stuff that doesn't effect them and proudly states their ignorance as fact?

You have been seriously deceived and you bought in to it. I think maybe worldly knowledge (that you hold up as Champion, Lol!) may be one of the biggest deceptions ever. And there you are saying, well if you just take a bite of your favorite fruit then you'll be able to explain it to us. Man, it's the eating of that fruit that got us into trouble in the first place, so quit being a (probably unpaid) parrot and squawking, Ye shall not surely die but be as gods.
I havet told Quantril to do anything or endorsed any specific vaccine. I respect their right to not vaccinate.

Mountains of textbooks and scientific papers can not and never will make the Word of God null and void. Perhaps you would fare better if you read his book rather than him reading yours.
I'm not trying to nullify God. If I saw someone claim that hats are made of fire and claims, are you saying I should let them speak that because it is their "Godly Wisdom". We still need to be able to call a spade a spade.

Quantril thinking it's in his best faith to not get vaccinated, fine. Spreading misinformation is different.
 
I wish I had some virology training , glad you have some . How many semesters did you have and what was your thoughts on it then ?

So I was looking for some " good news about covid-19 " but I found this about herd immunity :sad .

“Now we need 85 to 90% vaccinated against delta,” said Topol, vice president for research at Scripps Research in La Jolla, California, and a national expert on the use of data in medical research."
COVID-19 herd immunity is a mirage.
Herd immunity does not work unless we actually become immune so we do not share the virus with others but as shown in my experience this past month, becoming infected or vaccinated does not make one immune to the virus. It does appear that the chance of getting seriously ill from it is reduced considerably but that is not the same as immunity.
 
You know what? You are trying to flip his positioning on this issue because you're losing ground to him, lol
These discussions must not be about winning and losing but rather sharing of viewpoints as a matter of discussion. When we enter into these discussion with the goal of winning the argument then we are violating the TOS.

This applies to everyone and not just Edward. Please keep this in mind.
 
I'm not trying to nullify God. If I saw someone claim that hats are made of fire and claims, are you saying I should let them speak that because it is their "Godly Wisdom". We still need to be able to call a spade a spade.

That's all he is doing, calling a spade a spade.

This is really all about whether one believes the word of God or not. Now you obviously do not and prolly don't even know what Psalm 91 says. I believe it.

And nowhere in Genesis does it quote the Lord as saying let the earth bring forth vaccines. It does say in the NT, let not yourselves be deceived. So there you have it. Essentially, it says that Jesus is the vaccine. You see, when you stand on the word of God instead of confidence in man it becomes abundantly clear that the vaccine is not effective enough to have any confidence in whatsoever. The Lord has side effects too! Just not death, lol.

I hope this is appropriate and wont be deleted or worse. But any true believer which puts faith in the word of God is on the right track. Those who say, believe the science and study these books...are at best spreading disinformation with rabbit trails. A distraction away from the Lord our God. All we need is Jesus and you find him within God's word.

I'll be good now. I'm out of it. I've said my piece.
 
I too believe in Jesus, as do millions of other Christians, some of whom believed in Him, didn't get the vaccine and died anyway from Covid. What of them?

I believe in God and my faith is in Him, but that doesn't mean that I discount vaccines and medicine. I believe that God gave man the knowledge to make medicine, to make vaccines, to make medical procedures. These are life saving things.
 
In addition to my previous response, I need to add that a major worry about the unvaccinated are that they unnecessarily clog up the hospitals. Where I live, in both the third and fourth waves (which we are just beginning to come out of), numerous surgeries and other treatments, life-saving or otherwise, were postponed because the hospitalizations were too high. The vast majority of hospitalizations in both waves were unvaccinated people. Doctors and others were (and still are) pulled from what they regularly do to help out with COVID patients. Many nurses are burnt out and considering quitting. The tole on healthcare professionals and non-COVID patients is going to be immense.
I got vaccinated, and I support the vaccine as long as it’s not forced or mandated.

That being said, Covid has been around long enough that it’s now treatable. Many of the early Covid deaths were the result of us not knowing how to treat it.

Here is what I don’t really understand. There are many early treatment options for Covid that do prevent hospitalization and ultimately death in some cases. My take on the healthcare situation is this. Why not focus on early treatment to take the heavy load off our ICU wards and the ER? Early treatment can prevent hospitalization and death as effectively as the vaccine. And since the average pandemic is 3 to 5 years, Covid will be a threat for years to come until it runs it’s natural course simply because the entire world can’t be vaccinated.
 
There is a potential bright side to the mRNA research. I was reading about some other pre-clinical work being done with regard to cancer treatments. Using mRNA technology it has showing promise for creating an immune response to cancer cells in mice and effectively destroying the cancer. Now wouldn't that be great if a cancer vaccine could be developed out of this?

Should we start injecting people now or wait until the research is completed and the proper clinical trials have been done so we can evaluate the risks and possible side effects first? I'm not trying to be sarcastic.
mRNA was originally used in cancer research, except they never had the funding to move it forward. I believe I told you this last year. Trump made it possible to advance mRNA research with Covid.

A few months ago I read they started the first mRNA trial in humans with Cancer. From what I’ve been reading, it looks very promising.
 
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I usually try and sort of speed read a thread before posting. This thread is so long I feel defeated before I start.

However;
Has the subject of (how new varieties of plants can be developed) been discussed.


eddif
 
I got vaccinated, and I support the vaccine as long as it’s not forced or mandated.

That being said, Covid has been around long enough that it’s now treatable. Many of the early Covid deaths were the result of us not knowing how to treat it.

Here is what I don’t really understand. There are many early treatment options for Covid that do prevent hospitalization and ultimately death in some cases. My take on the healthcare situation is this. Why not focus on early treatment to take the heavy load off our ICU wards and the ER? Early treatment can prevent hospitalization and death as effectively as the vaccine. And since the average pandemic is 3 to 5 years, Covid will be a threat for years to come until it runs it’s natural course simply because the entire world can’t be vaccinated.
I agree, mostly. The only thing I have trouble with is mandating vaccines. This becomes a thorny issue of rights, in which we must be careful to not understand rights the way the world does. Biblically speaking, we really have few rights and those we have come with responsibility to others. The secular idea of rights, even though they came from and can only be based on the Bible, are completely detached from the Bible and social responsibility; it is all about absolute personal autonomy.

So what happens then in this discussion, is that I would agree that people should have the right to decide for themselves as to whether or not they get vaccinated. However, I also believe that businesses and institutions have the social responsibility to do what they reasonably can to protect the health and safety of those on their property, which means they also have the right to who they let onto their property. Now we have conflicting rights--those who don't want to get vaccinated (or wear masks, distance, etc.) yet want to go about living their lives as normal, and businesses and institutions who have the responsibility to their employees, clients, customers, patients, etc.

I have asked several times on social media how are we to determine whose rights win and I have yet to receive a response. The obvious answer is that the rights of the greater good will prevail, because they should. While governments shouldn't be mandating vaccinations for private businesses, they should have the right for their employees and any who need to enter government buildings, etc.

It really is difficult but Christians especially should see that the Bible calls us to put socially responsibility above our own rights. If those who don't want to get vaccinated would then very religiously adhere to wearing masks, distancing, etc., I would have much less of a problem with them. Where I am, in Canadian redneck country, there are too many who don't want to follow the restrictions and don't want to get vaccinated. Over the last few months, during our fourth wave, we were the worst in Canada and among the worst in NA.

There is still enough uncertainty within all the data regarding how the virus spreads, what the long-term effects are of COVID, etc., to warrant erring on the side of caution, in my opinion. While we most certainly need to figure out the best approaches to treatment, the vaccines are just an effective way to get the spread under control as quickly as possible.
 
All other vaccine related deaths is 1700 over the course of 25 years.



COVID vaccine deaths is 17,000 in 10 months.
Where is your evidence for these numbers?

The VAERS REPORT only reflects a small percentage (10%) of the actual number.
Again, what is your source for this assertion?

The COVID VACCINE can not be administered to humans safely.
What do you mean by this? Are needles not safe?

There are no published animal trials for this vaccine, which takes 10-12 years.
Did we have time for that? Almost 7 billion doses have been given over the last year.

Why doesnt the public have access to the trials done on animals.
Even if trials were done on animals, it wouldn't be a good idea to let the public have access. If there is one thing that has become evident during the pandemic, is that the general public has no idea how to determine good research from bad research and good sources from bad sources, much less how to properly interpret and understand the results of research. I have seen many instances of research results being interpreted incorrectly and even more instances of obscure, one-off sources being used to "substantiate" one's position.

The general public doesn't have access to most of the research out there on any issue, and they shouldn't because they won't understand it correctly.

BECAUSE IT DOESNT WORK!
The vaccines work well enough; the data is abundantly clear. To say they don't work because they aren't 100% effective is totally misleading.
 
That's all he is doing, calling a spade a spade.

This is really all about whether one believes the word of God or not. Now you obviously do not and prolly don't even know what Psalm 91 says. I believe it.

And nowhere in Genesis does it quote the Lord as saying let the earth bring forth vaccines. It does say in the NT, let not yourselves be deceived. So there you have it. Essentially, it says that Jesus is the vaccine. You see, when you stand on the word of God instead of confidence in man it becomes abundantly clear that the vaccine is not effective enough to have any confidence in whatsoever. The Lord has side effects too! Just not death, lol.

I hope this is appropriate and wont be deleted or worse. But any true believer which puts faith in the word of God is on the right track. Those who say, believe the science and study these books...are at best spreading disinformation with rabbit trails. A distraction away from the Lord our God. All we need is Jesus and you find him within God's word.

I'll be good now. I'm out of it. I've said my piece.
How is this "really about whether one believes the word of God or not"? Is Jesus your seat belt? Is he your prescription medication or your Tylenol? Where do you draw the line as to when you trust God and when you don't (to use your argument)? It seems as though you want to argue that God will protect you from COVID or keep you from dying should you get it, yet you don't seem to believe that he will protect you from potential side effects of the vaccines.

The vaccines are very effective and we can put our confidence in them. The data is clear that COVID is much worse than the side effects of the vaccines, by orders of magnitude. Putting one's confidence in vaccines does not mean one doesn't also put their confidence in God. I wear my seat belt at all times and take prescription medication when needed, not because I don't trust God, but because God asks to us to be prudent in how we live.

Modern science is based on the premise that since God created the Earth and created man in his image as rational beings, the Earth should be intelligible and man can learn about it. And that premise has proven true. Science is not opposed to Scripture.

We are to honour God with our whole beings, including our minds, and that includes thinking rationally and critically. We either believe God is sovereign and knows what is best for us, having our best interests at heart, or we don't.
 

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