Fastfredy0
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2 Peter 1:20 Above all, you must understand that no prophecy of Scripture comes from one’s own interpretation.Agreed. I also left the denominations. Too much error. I let the Bible lead me where it wills.
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2 Peter 1:20 Above all, you must understand that no prophecy of Scripture comes from one’s own interpretation.Agreed. I also left the denominations. Too much error. I let the Bible lead me where it wills.
I'm not sure what this has to do with what I said. I'm not interpreting prophecy.2 Peter 1:20 Above all, you must understand that no prophecy of Scripture comes from one’s own interpretation.
Since the gentiles are included, then all the blessings, adoption, election, salvation, and everything that goes along with it include them in the application of all of it. It doesn't matter that the Ephesian Christians weren't Christians yet when all those things happened. They were still predestined to adoption as sons. Every believer living today are born of God according to 1 John 5:1 and included in the kingdom of Christ, and were predestined to adoption as sons. To claim otherwise is nonsense.In verses 13 and 14 Paul tells the Gentiles they've been included. However, he also says, 'after you believed'. They were included after they believed. Not before they believed, after. Those things in verses 3-12 that are past tense happened before the Gentiles believed. Therefore they couldn't have been included. Those things happened before Christ brought the Gospel. As Paul says in chapter 2, the Gentiels were, without God and Christ, they were aliens from Israel, and they were outside of the covenants of promise. So, Paul states plainly that the Gentiles did not have any of those things in verses 3-12 before the Gospel came. Thus, they are not being spoken of in those verses.
No, what I explain is extracted from the text. You can accuse and label all you want, but the truth is the truth, and all will be revealed in the day of judgment. But now I'm thinking that you just want to argue about it, so I'm about to abandon the conversation, because Paul warned Timothy to steer clear of people who want to get into endless debates.No, predestined simply means predetermined. All the rest you said is your theology. You can keep trying to twist verses 3-12 but that won't change the fact that they refer to Israel.
What does " judging " have to do with being lied to ?Who are you to judge another? "God knows those who are His."
Its defended, you just cant receive it as truth, thats not my problem. All im doing is testifying to the truth. Its Gods business if He is pleased to lead you into it.So, you believe something you can't defend? How can you say it's true if you can't defend it? It looks like you're not too far from me. Maybe we should do a Bible study.
We were predestined to adoption as Sons, this is clear from scripture.Since the gentiles are included, then all the blessings, adoption, election, salvation, and everything that goes along with it include them in the application of all of it. It doesn't matter that the Ephesian Christians weren't Christians yet when all those things happened. They were still predestined to adoption as sons. Every believer living today are born of God according to 1 John 5:1 and included in the kingdom of Christ, and were predestined to adoption as sons. To claim otherwise is nonsense.
You're funny.2 Peter 1:20 Above all, you must understand that no prophecy of Scripture comes from one’s own interpretation.
Could you please post where scripture states that God leads us into salvation totally of His own volition and with no response from us as to whether or not we wish to be saved...Its defended, you just cant receive it as truth, thats not my problem. All im doing is testifying to the truth. Its Gods business if He is pleased to lead you into it.
Also, by the sovereignty of God, Calvin means that nothing happens without God so willing it and causing it to happen.Yeah. He at least acknowledged where his doctrine went with double Predestination.
How can one be an administrator and yet break the forum's rules that one is supposed to uphold ??????The Calvinist Theology seems to teach that you can act like Lucifer and still remain in God’s kingdom.
Yeah. One reason is the way people approach the Bible. Many simply don't reason properly. People proof text rather than reading the passages in context. I think one of the worst things to happen to the Scriptures was chapter and verse numbers. This allows people to grab passages of Scripture without ever reading the surrounding text. How many Christians can quote John 3:16 verbatim? That number is probably pretty high. How many can quote John 3:15 or 3:17? That number is probably pretty low. That's a big problem.Also, by the sovereignty of God, Calvin means that nothing happens without God so willing it and causing it to happen.
As to double predestination...
Calvin's Institutes of the Christian Religion
Book 3
Chapter 21
Pargraph 5
By predestination we mean the eternal decree of God, by which he determined with himself whatever he wished to happen with regard to every man. All are not created on equal terms, but some are preordained to eternal life, others to eternal damnation; and, accordingly, as each has been created for one or other of these ends, we say that he has been predestinated to life or to death. This God has testified, not only in the case of single individuals; Calvin on Predestination (Institutes) Page 4 he has also given a specimen of it in the whole posterity of Abraham, to make it plain that the future condition of each nation lives entirely at his disposal: "
The above is so far from the God we encounter in scripture.
The God that loves the whole world. John 3:16
The God that desires all men to be saved. Isaiah 45:22/ Luke 13:22-27/ 1 Timothy 2:4/ 2 Peter 3:9/
The God that wants all men/nations to know of Him. Matthew 28:18-19
The God that cried over those that would not come to Him. Luke 19:41-44
WHY would Jesus cry over those that would not come to Him...
If it is GOD that determined that they would not!??
How many verses need to be trampled to understand that there is something very wrong with Calvinist teachings?
Which denomination would that be??How can one be an administrator and yet break the forum's rules that one is supposed to uphold ??????
Rule 1.4: Do not misquote or misrepresent another member. Do not state a negative opinion about a member's denomination, leaders, founders, or the veracity of a member's faith. (Exodus 20:16)
No, they weren't. This isn't hard. Paul said that the Gentiles were without God and Christ, aliens of Israel, and outside of the covenants. One can't be a covenant person of God if they are outside of that covenant. Israel was predestined to adoption, not Gentiles. Paul said in Romans 9 that the adoption pertains to Israel. How many times does he have to say it? I realize that Reformed theology falls apart if this passage doesn't include the Gentiles. However, it's better to understand Scripture correctly than to hold the theology of men.Since the gentiles are included, then all the blessings, adoption, election, salvation, and everything that goes along with it include them in the application of all of it. It doesn't matter that the Ephesian Christians weren't Christians yet when all those things happened. They were still predestined to adoption as sons. Every believer living today are born of God according to 1 John 5:1 and included in the kingdom of Christ, and were predestined to adoption as sons. To claim otherwise is nonsense.
That's a typical bail. But, it's not me that is simply arguing for the sake of arguing. I have presented you with numerous evidences showing how verses 3-12 apply to Israel. I've asked you repeatedly to show where those things were promised to the Gentiles. You gave nothing. I showed you where Paul states explicitly that the "you" group is the Gentiles. I've shown how the Gentiles were included at a later date. You've given no evidence to support what you've said other than your opinion.No, what I explain is extracted from the text. You can accuse and label all you want, but the truth is the truth, and all will be revealed in the day of judgment. But now I'm thinking that you just want to argue about it, so I'm about to abandon the conversation, because Paul warned Timothy to steer clear of people who want to get into endless debates.
But, you're not testifying to the truth, that's the point. Look at your 5 points of Calvinism and see if you can show us a single passage of Scripture that supports any one of them. Can you show any Scripture that says man is totally depraved? Can you show any that says man is unconditionally elected to salvation? Can you show any that say Christ's atonement iAugs limited to only certain people? Can you show any Scripture that says God's grace is irresistible? Actually, Scripture speaks of people who resisted God's grace. Can you show anything from Scripture that states that the saints will absolutely persevere?Its defended, you just cant receive it as truth, thats not my problem. All im doing is testifying to the truth. Its Gods business if He is pleased to lead you into it.
You kept asking how do we know who is pretending. I answered the same answer that Jesus gave, "by their fruit." But then you want to try to judge another person, if they appear to be edified, that they are pretending to be edified, but that is judging the kind of judgment that Jesus said not to do. This is why I asked who are you to judge.What does " judging " have to do with being lied to ?
Your response makes me wonder if you wrongly judge Calvin and the reformers because of what you've been told or what some people in the forum say. I'm certainly no expert on Calvin, but I tend to believe the statement by a historian that if there was no Calvin, there would be no U.S.A. (our nation would be entirely different, perhaps even still under British rule). But that aside, I've read some of the major reformed confessions like the Westminster and the 1689 London Baptist, and there is very little in it that I think is not solidly biblical. I don't follow them, but I compare them with scripture, and agree where I see they agree with scripture.We were predestined to adoption as Sons, this is clear from scripture.
But some take this too far and learn from Calvin that God predestined everything.
Not sure what you believe, but Calvin, and the early reformers, taught something that was not accepted in the early church....which was the church closest to the teachings of Jesus. Interesting that none of them read this idea in scripture until Augustine,,,400 years after Jesus died and whose idea was not accepted.
It's your theology that's wrong. The gentiles are included when they become believers. Again, you are confusing the covenants. It appears to me you don't know what you're talking about, and just want to argue, so don't expect any more response from me on this issue.No, they weren't. This isn't hard. Paul said that the Gentiles were without God and Christ, aliens of Israel, and outside of the covenants. One can't be a covenant person of God if they are outside of that covenant. Israel was predestined to adoption, not Gentiles. Paul said in Romans 9 that the adoption pertains to Israel. How many times does he have to say it? I realize that Reformed theology falls apart if this passage doesn't include the Gentiles. However, it's better to understand Scripture correctly than to hold the theology of men.