Bible Study Does James 2 Teach Works for Salvation?

[Hopeful]

Founded on the persons of Peter and the apostles not on a confession

Jesus Christ is the rock of salvation!

Peter is the rock that the church is built on by Christ alone!

Would that be the Peter that the gates of hell prevailed against on the night the Lord was taken into custody?
Your organization's foundation is sand.

 

[Hopeful]

No they have no personal sin so no condemned to hell

Original sin can be understood as a state of fallen man to whom
Heaven was closed.
Jn 3:5 cannot enter the kingdom
Man is devoid of grace and banished from God.

Christ redeemed man, provided for justification by faith and baptism!

The church fathers say infants should be baptized and the church has always done so
Acts 2:39 this promise to you’re children and the scripture does not say only adults or except infants
Thanks

Babies have no sin to wash away by the blood of Christ.
That was the reason He shed His blood, for the remission for past sins.
Anying added on to that is of man's tainted wisdom.

 

[Hopeful]

No just that many do not properly understand all of it or it opposes their pet doctrines

Or, it opposes God.
My Lord Jesus Christ died to destroy the works of the devil, and to free me from service to sin. (John 8:32-34)
If He can do that for me, He should also be able to keep every baptized baby free from sin too.
So, do you know of any men, baptized as babies, of your sect, that are free from service to sin?

 

[Hopeful]

Those verses refers to the Last Days/End Times/Great Tribulation where the Salvation Doctrine is Faith + Works
Glad we're still in the Church Age where we're saved by Faith Alone

Show me your faith without works and I will show you mine by my works. (James 2:18, 20)

 

[Pass-A-Gospel-Tract]

Show me your faith without works and I will show you mine by my works. (James 2:18, 20)

James 1:1 to the 12 Tribes of Israel
James 5:3 during the Last Days

You're taking the verses out of context when the book of James is talking about what Jews has to do to get saved during End Times which is Faith + Works which is different from the current Church Age Salvation by Faith alone. We've gone back full circle, I've already explained this in the very first post.

John 8:43 KJV
“Why do ye not understand my speech? even because ye cannot hear my word.”

 

[Dorothy Mae]

Founded on the persons of Peter and the apostles not on a confession

Jesus Christ is the rock of salvation!

Peter is the rock that the church is built on by Christ alone!

Lk 22:32
Jesus prays for Peter alone

Jn 21:17 Peter entrusted with the flock or church

Only Peter and His successors have
Jurisdictional authority from Christ to govern the church!

Already acting in the person of Christ even acting as intermediary!

It is Jesus Christ who identifies peter with himself!

Matt 17:24 And when they were come to Capernaum, they that received tribute money came to Peter, and said, Doth not your master pay tribute?

25 He saith, Yes. And when he was come into the houser, Jesus prevented him, saying, What thinkest thou, Simon? of whom do the kings of the earth take custom or tribute? of their own children, or of strangers?

26 Peter saith unto him, Of strangers. Jesus saith unto him, Then are the children free.

27 Notwithstanding, lest we should offend them, go thou to the sea, and cast an hook, and take up the fish that first cometh up; and when thou hast opened his mouth, thou shalt find a piece of money: that take, and give unto them for me and thee.

It is Jesus Christ who identifies peter with himself! Matt 17:27

Jesus Christ gives the keys of the kingdom to peter matt 16:18-19 making him prime minister applying Isa 22:21-22 to peter

It’s Christ who does this

Why is the name of peter even mentioned?

Why does Christ change Peter’s name, God changing a persons name like Abram to Abraham or Jacob to Israel always signifies a mission or ministry!

Why does Christ give him the keys of jurisdictional authority that the prime minister holds under the king to administer the kingdom? Isa 22:21-22

How do you govern the church and administer the kingdom with a confession?

How do you give jurisdictional authority to a confession? (Keys of the kingdom)

How do you give a confession the power to bind and loose?


also have to explain
Isa 22:21-22 jurisdictional authority of the keys and called father
Matt 28:19 go teach baptize
Jn 20:21-23 same mission power and authority as christ
Eph 2:20 church built on the apostles
Matt 23 successors of Moses have the jurisdictional authority and the power to bind and loose which Christ says must be obeyed, then taken from them matt 21:43 given to Peter and the apostles and their successors

Lk 22:29 And I appoint unto you a kingdom, as my Father hath appointed unto me;
30 That ye may eat and drink at my table in my kingdom, and sit on thrones judging the twelve tribes of Israel.
31 And the Lord said, Simon, Simon, behold, Satan hath desired to have you, that he may sift you as wheat: (plural Peter and his successors)
32 But I have prayed for thee, that thy faith fail not: and when thou art converted, strengthen thy brethren.



Applies only to Peter as “prince of the apostles”!

Peter and his successors are the Leader of the apostles and the head of the church until Christ returns!

First and chief apostle!

Matt 10:2 Now the names of the twelve apostles are these; The first, Simon, who is called Peter,

Lk 22:29 And I appoint unto you a kingdom, as my Father hath appointed unto me;
30 That ye may eat and drink at my table in my kingdom, and sit on thrones judging the twelve tribes of Israel.
31 And the Lord said, Simon, Simon, behold, Satan hath desired to have you, that he may sift you as wheat: (plural Peter and his successors)
32 But I have prayed for thee, that thy faith fail not: and when thou art converted, strengthen thy brethren.

Lk 22:32 Christ prayed for Peter!

Peter is head of the church on earth in the place of Christ until His return!

Isa 22:21-22 21 And I will clothe him with thy robe, and strengthen him with thy girdle, and I will commit thy government into his hand: and he shall be a father to the inhabitants of Jerusalem, and to the house of Judah.

22 And the key of the house of David will I lay upon his shoulder; so he shall open, and none shall shut; and he shall shut, and none shall open.

Matt 16:19 And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.

Matt 23:1 power and authority of the kingdom known in the keys and binding and loosing, Matt 21:43 kingdom shall be taken from you given to another who will bear fruit. (Peter the apostles in holy church Lk 22:29)

Matt 17:27 Jesus identified peter with himself.

Matt 16:17 Peter alone received revelation from the Father

Lk 22:32 Peter to strengthen his brethren (the apostles)

Jn 21:17 feed my sheep

Peter exercises his authority over the apostles and the church!

Acts 1:15
Acts 3:4
Acts 5:5 5:10
Acts 10:44
Acts 15:7

ONLY TO PETER CHRIST SAID: THOU ART PETER AND UPON THIS ROCK I WILL BUILT MY CHURCH, AND THE GATES OF HELL SHALL NOT PREVAIL AGAINST IT!Matt 16:18

Peter is the prime minister, father, and head of the church on earth until Christ returns Isa 22:21-22

Seat of peter remains Until Christ returns
Matt 28:19-20


Matthew 5:14
Ye are the light of the world. A city that is set on an hill cannot be hid.


Rom 14:10 But why dost thou judge thy brother? or why dost thou set at nought thy brother? for we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ.

4 important questions:

1) How do you govern the church and administer the kingdom with a confession?

2) How do you give jurisdictional authority to a confession? (Keys of the kingdom)

3) How do you give a confession the power to bind and loose?

4) why did Christ give the keys to Peter (and only to Peter) keys of jurisdictional authority. Isa 22:21-22 why even bother to mention Peter if he is not involved?

Explain Jn 20:21 Peter and the apostles and their successors have the same mission, ministry, power, and authority as Christ! “As the father sent me, so I send you”!

Matt 28:19 christ communicates his authority to peter and the apostles to teach all nations, baptize all disciples!
Jn 20:21-23 apostles even have authority to forgive sins
Eph 2:20 church built on the apostles
Matt 23 the authority and power of the successors of Moses required to be obeyed are taken from them and given to Peter and the apostles

Jn 21:17
Peter commanded to Feed my sheep:

Jesus the good shepherd did not leave us without pastors spiritual fathers to care for our souls!
Thanks

You are obviously Catholic. One fact needs to be cleared up. Jesus did not build his church on a man, Peter. The leader of the church after Jesus was James, not Peter. The early church did not think the church was built on Peter. Just thought I would throw that into the mix. No one in the first century, including Peter, thought the church was built on Peter. That came some 100 years later.

 

[Pass-A-Gospel-Tract]

Show me your faith without works and I will show you mine by my works. (James 2:18, 20)

Galatians 2:16 KJV​

“Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.”

 

[Pass-A-Gospel-Tract]

God is a fundamentalist baptist?

At least we don't provoke God to anger

Jeremiah 7:18​

“The children gather wood, and the fathers kindle the fire, and the women knead their dough, to make cakes to the queen of heaven, and to pour out drink offerings unto other gods, that they may provoke me to anger.”

 

[Hopeful]

James 1:1 to the 12 Tribes of Israel
James 5:3 during the Last Days

You're taking the verses out of context when the book of James is talking about what Jews has to do to get saved during End Times which is Faith + Works which is different from the current Church Age Salvation by Faith alone. We've gone back full circle, I've already explained this in the very first post.

John 8:43 KJV
“Why do ye not understand my speech? even because ye cannot hear my word.”

As the Jewish believers are no different than the Gentile believers it behooves us to pay attention to every teaching put forth in the word of God.
If you feel only the even number verses apply to you, so be it.
If you feel only the letters addressed to Gentile cities apply to you, so be it.
All/both say we will not be saved on the day of judgement if our works/deeds are evil.
Jesus made it most clear in Matt 7:22-23..."Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity."
No evildoer will be saved.
That only leaves the doers of good to be saved.

 

[Hopeful]

Galatians 2:16 KJV​

“Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.”

Thank God the good works we do now are not of the Mosaic Law, but written in our hearts.
Loving God with all our heart and strength, plus loving our neighbors as we love ourselves are the works you so terribly seem to hate.

 

[jerry63935]

works follows salvation not precedes
And I heard a voice from heaven saying unto me, Write, Blessed are the dead which die in the Lord from henceforth: Yea, saith the Spirit, that they may rest from their labours; and their works do follow them.
Revelation 14:13

 

[Pass-A-Gospel-Tract]

As the Jewish believers are no different than the Gentile believers it behooves us to pay attention to every teaching put forth in the word of God.
If you feel only the even number verses apply to you, so be it.
If you feel only the letters addressed to Gentile cities apply to you, so be it.
All/both say we will not be saved on the day of judgement if our works/deeds are evil.
Jesus made it most clear in Matt 7:22-23..."Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity."
No evildoer will be saved.
That only leaves the doers of good to be saved.

Looks like you've already made up your mind. I pray that you come to the knowledge of the truth and sound doctrine.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

At least we don't provoke God to anger

Jeremiah 7:18​

“The children gather wood, and the fathers kindle the fire, and the women knead their dough, to make cakes to the queen of heaven, and to pour out drink offerings unto other gods, that they may provoke me to anger.”

He gets angry over other matters too.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Thank God the good works we do now are not of the Mosaic Law, but written in our hearts.

Yes, and no.

Surely, we do not keep the letter of the law of Moses in regard to the Festival cycle. For there's no need to do that which Christ has fulfilled and completed for us. And so those requirements of law have been forever met and completed in Christ, not broken in Christ, and require no further action on our part. But the remaining debt of law we are obligated to keep is 'love your neighbor as yourself' (Leviticus 19:18). It gets upheld by us in this New Covenant, inscribed on the tablets of our hearts by the Holy Spirit.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Galatians 2:16 KJV​

“Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.”

Even though we do not get justified (made righteous) by any work of the law of Moses, including 'love your neighbor as yourself' (Leviticus 19:18), we do get justified (shown to be righteous) by the remaining debt of law we still owe to love others as we love ourselves.

The person who can not show themselves to be justified (made righteous) in Christ by upholding the remaining debt of law, summarized in 'love your neighbor as yourself', is not born again and will not be saved from the wrath of God when Jesus comes back. The works-less person is the faithless person, unconverted and lost. And so it is only in that way that works are required to be saved from God's fiery judgment when Jesus comes back.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

So salvation by “faith alone” is completely false and impossible if baptism is rejected!

A person is saved the moment they are justified. And justification is secured entirely by the power of God's forgiveness received by faith in that forgiveness. Obedience is simply the evidence of that faith and is not what actually makes a person righteous (justified).

Being water baptized is just one of those obediences. It has zero power to make you righteous. It is only an expression of the faith by which a person is made righteous all by itself apart from works of obedience.

 

[Hopeful]

Looks like you've already made up your mind. I pray that you come to the knowledge of the truth and sound doctrine.

Would that be the "truth" Jesus said could free us from committing sin, in John 8:32-34?

 

[Hopeful]

Yes, and no.

Surely, we do not keep the letter of the law of Moses in regard to the Festival cycle. For there's no need to do that which Christ has fulfilled and completed for us. And so those requirements of law have been forever met and completed in Christ, not broken in Christ, and require no further action on our part. But the remaining debt of law we are obligated to keep is 'love your neighbor as yourself' (Leviticus 19:18). It gets upheld by us in this New Covenant, inscribed on the tablets of our hearts by the Holy Spirit.

Thanks for rightly embellishing my own thoughts.

 

[donadams]

Would that be the Peter that the gates of hell prevailed against on the night the Lord was taken into custody?
Your organization's foundation is sand.

They did not receive power until Pentecost

 

[donadams]

You are obviously Catholic. One fact needs to be cleared up. Jesus did not build his church on a man, Peter. The leader of the church after Jesus was James, not Peter. The early church did not think the church was built on Peter. Just thought I would throw that into the mix. No one in the first century, including Peter, thought the church was built on Peter. That came some 100 years later.

Matt 16:16 And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.

17 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.

Is Peter’s person blessed or Peter’s confession?
Does Peter’s confession or Peter’s person receive divine revelation?

18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

When God changes a man’s name abram to Abraham or Jacob to Israel or Simon to Peter it signifies an office!

Is Peter’s person or Peter’s confession who’s name is changed?

And! Peter and rock are the same!

19 And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.

Does Christ gives the keys to Peter’s person or Peter’s confession?

Does Christ give the power to bind and loose to Peter’s person or to a confession?

James and the other apostles and their successors had local authority Peter was put in charge of the universal church by Christ till He returns in glory