Bible Study Does James 2 Teach Works for Salvation?

[Pass-A-Gospel-Tract]

Jn 3:5 say born of water born again of the spirit???


Kjv

Jn 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

Born again by both water and the spirit

Cannot enter the kingdom

2 pet 1:11 For so an entrance shall be ministered unto you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.

No mention of baptism is Jn 3 really?

Jn 3:22 says they went to Jerusalem and preached the sinners prayer, “accept Christ as you’re personal lord and savior “???

Or maybe Jn 3:22 John 3:22 After these things came Jesus and his disciples into the land of Judaea; and there he tarried with them, and baptized.

Effects of faith & baptism!

Ez 36:25-27 washed in baptism, with a new heart and the Spirit
Jn 3:5 born again in baptism
Mk 16:16 faith & baptist
Acts 2:38 repentance & baptism
Acts 8:36-38 faith & baptism
Acts 22:16 baptism washes away sin
Rom 6:3 died with Christ
Col 2:12 risen with Christ
1 cor 12:13 baptized into the church
Gal 3:27 by baptism put on Christ
2 Tim 1:10 eph 2:1 and 5 brought to life
2 cor 5:17 new creation
Eph 1:13 sealed by the Holy Spirit
Eph 4:5 one faith, one baptism
Eph 5:26 faith and baptism
Titus 3:5 baptismal regeneration
1 pet 1:2 washed in Christ’s blood
1 pet 2:9 the kingdom of light
1 pet 3:20-21 baptism saves us!

“Faith alone” accomplishes nothing!
1 cor 13:2 even all faith (alone) without charity avails NOTHING!!!

Faith and baptism!

Scripture says none of the things about “Faith alone”!

2 Peter 1:11
For so an entrance shall be ministered unto you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.

The Christian sacrament of baptism is the Initiation into the new covenant and must be ministered to you by the apostles!




“Faith alone” Questions

where does scripture says we have died with Christ by “faith alone”?

Rom 6:3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?

where does scripture say we are members of Christ and his church by “faith alone”?

1 Corinthians 12:13
For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

where does scripture says we put on Christ by “faith alone”?

Galatians 3:27
For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.

Where does scripture say our sins are washed away by “faith alone”?

Acts 22:16
And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.

where does scripture say we are saved or justified by “faith alone”?

1 pet 3:21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us!

The only reference in scripture to “faith alone” is James 2:24 NOT BY “FAITH ALONE”?

2 pet 1: 11 For so an entrance shall be ministered unto you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.

How can you enter by your own if it must be ministered to you? Baptism is done unto you, “not do it yourself by faith alone”

Jn 3:5 born again by faith alone?

Where is “Accept Christ as your personal lord & savior” is found in scripture?

They did not go preaching this line but went immediately to the river and baptized Jn 3:22

Acts 22:16
And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.

1 Corinthians 12:13
For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

Galatians 3:27
For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.

Eph 4:5 one baptism

Why don’t it say one teeny tiny little act of “faith alone”???

When we first believed we are saved?

Romans 13:11
And that, knowing the time, that now it is high time to awake out of sleep: for now is our salvation nearer than when we believed.

How can salvation be nearer than when we first believed if you’re saved by believing?

1 pet 1:9 Receiving the end of your faith, even the salvation of your souls.

Matt 24:13 endures to the end Shall be saved.

How can salvation happen when we first believed if it’s the end?

If salvation is by “faith alone” then faith would be the greatest!
1 cor 13:13 charity is the greatest!

Even all faith much less “faith alone” without charity avails nothing!
1 cor 13:2

“Faith alone” unbiblical!

Luke 23:39-42 Malefactor/Thief/Criminal at the cross, no good works, no charity, no water baptism, and yet still saved by faith alone.

39 And one of the malefactors which were hanged railed on him, saying, If thou be Christ, save thyself and us.
40 But the other answering rebuked him, saying, Dost not thou fear God, seeing thou art in the same condemnation?
41 And we indeed justly; for we receive the due reward of our deeds: but this man hath done nothing amiss.
42 And he said unto Jesus, Lord, remember me when thou comest into thy kingdom.

1 Peter 3:21​

“The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:”

"[Water] Baptism doth also now save us, not the putting away of the filth of the flesh"
Water Baptism does not saved you from your sins, we do it because it's a command from God, so God will not be disappointed with us ("but the answer of a good conscience toward God").

 

[SolaScriptura]

Romans 11:6

But if by grace, then it is no more of works; otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it is of works, then it is no more of grace; otherwise work is no more work

 

[donadams]

This sounds contradictory. Suppose you do sin after being saved. What then? If I understand Galatians 6:7-10, those who would continue in sin will reap from the seeds of corruption for which they have sown.

Also

1. 1 Corinthians 6:9
   Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,
2. Galatians 5:21
   Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.

1 Corinthians 16:22
If any man love not the Lord Jesus Christ, let him be Anathema

Also
Let’s be sure our motives are pure and Christian!

The virtues of Jesus Christ must be what we practice!

Humility always obeys!
Pride always is in rebellion & opposition!
Humility is faithful!
Pride protests!
Humility loves the truth and being instructed!
Pride demands I decide truth!

The truth shall make you free, the opposite is also true: false doctrine shall keep you in bondage! Spiritual blindness!

Take the example of Saul:

Saul thought he was doing the will of God and acting righteously with correct faith!

Acts 9:1 And Saul, yet breathing out threatenings and slaughter against the disciples of the Lord, went unto the high priest,

2 And desired of him letters to Damascus to the synagogues, that if he found any of this way, whether they were men or women, he might bring them bound unto Jerusalem.

3 And as he journeyed, he came near Damascus: and suddenly there shined round about him a light from heaven:

4 And he fell to the earth, and heard a voice saying unto him, Saul, Saul, why persecutest thou me?

5 And he said, Who art thou, Lord? And the Lord said, I am Jesus whom thou persecutest: it is hard for thee to kick against the pricks.

6 And he trembling and astonished said, Lord, what wilt thou have me to do? And the Lord said unto him, Arise, and go into the city, and it shall be told thee what thou must do.

13 Then Ananias answered, Lord, I have heard by many of this man, how much evil he hath done to thy saints at Jerusalem:

Then the risen Christ appeared!
The blinding light of truth prevailed!

 

[donadams]

Luke 23:39-42 Malefactor/Thief/Criminal at the cross, no good works, no charity, no water baptism, and yet still saved by faith alone.

39 And one of the malefactors which were hanged railed on him, saying, If thou be Christ, save thyself and us.
40 But the other answering rebuked him, saying, Dost not thou fear God, seeing thou art in the same condemnation?
41 And we indeed justly; for we receive the due reward of our deeds: but this man hath done nothing amiss.
42 And he said unto Jesus, Lord, remember me when thou comest into thy kingdom.

1 Peter 3:21​

“The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:”

"[Water] Baptism doth also now save us, not the putting away of the filth of the flesh"
Water Baptism does not saved you from your sins, we do it because it's a command from God, so God will not be disappointed with us ("but the answer of a good conscience toward God").

How do you know these things about the thief? Where does it say he had faith or faith alone?
Bad example cos the new covenant is not in effect till the death of the savior heb 9:16-17
Thanks

 

[Pass-A-Gospel-Tract]

How do you know these things about the thief? Where does it say he had faith or faith alone?
Bad example cos the new covenant is not in effect till the death of the savior heb 9:16-17
Thanks

So you're saying there's no possibility that
1) Jesus died before the thief died, so that the new testament salvation applied to saved thief
2) Jesus is telling the truth that the thief is saved and with Christ in Paradise

 

[SolaScriptura]

So you're saying there's no possibility that
1) Jesus died before the thief died, so that the new testament salvation applied to saved thief
2) Jesus is telling the truth that the thief is saved and with Christ in Paradise

Jesus Christ died after the Old Testament Saints did, and they are saved by His Blood!

the thief on the cross had faith in Jesus Christ as Lord and Saviour. He saw is own sins and the Perfection of Jesus Christ. He turned to Jesus Christ for his forgiveness and salvation, and the promise of his afterlife in the Eternal Kingdom of Jesus Christ!

 

[donadams]

So you're saying there's no possibility that
1) Jesus died before the thief died, so that the new testament salvation applied to saved thief
2) Jesus is telling the truth that the thief is saved and with Christ in Paradise

Yes but only repentance was required before the new covenant was in effect that’s why John prepared the way by baptism of repentance and the new covenant has the sacrament of baptismal regeneration with the life of the spirit
Baptism with fire / Love of God!

Ez 36:25 Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you.

26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.

27 And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.

Romans 5:5
And hope maketh not ashamed; because the love of God is shed abroad in our hearts by the Holy Ghost which is given unto us.

 

[SolaScriptura]

Yes but only repentance was required before the new covenant was in effect that’s why John prepared the way by baptism of repentance and the new covenant has the sacrament of baptismal regeneration with the life of the spirit
Baptism with fire / Love of God!

Ez 36:25 Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you.

26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.

27 And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.

Romans 5:5
And hope maketh not ashamed; because the love of God is shed abroad in our hearts by the Holy Ghost which is given unto us.

Jesus Christ's first Words as recorded in the Gospel of Mark, are:

"and saying, The time has been fulfilled and the kingdom of God has drawn near. REPENT and BELIEVE in the good-news" (1:15)

repentance only is a heresy!

 

[Pass-A-Gospel-Tract]

Also

1. 1 Corinthians 6:9
   Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,
2. Galatians 5:21
   Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.

1 Corinthians 16:22
If any man love not the Lord Jesus Christ, let him be Anathema

Also
Let’s be sure our motives are pure and Christian!

The virtues of Jesus Christ must be what we practice!

Humility always obeys!
Pride always is in rebellion & opposition!
Humility is faithful!
Pride protests!
Humility loves the truth and being instructed!
Pride demands I decide truth!

The truth shall make you free, the opposite is also true: false doctrine shall keep you in bondage! Spiritual blindness!

Take the example of Saul:

Saul thought he was doing the will of God and acting righteously with correct faith!

Acts 9:1 And Saul, yet breathing out threatenings and slaughter against the disciples of the Lord, went unto the high priest,

2 And desired of him letters to Damascus to the synagogues, that if he found any of this way, whether they were men or women, he might bring them bound unto Jerusalem.

3 And as he journeyed, he came near Damascus: and suddenly there shined round about him a light from heaven:

4 And he fell to the earth, and heard a voice saying unto him, Saul, Saul, why persecutest thou me?

5 And he said, Who art thou, Lord? And the Lord said, I am Jesus whom thou persecutest: it is hard for thee to kick against the pricks.

6 And he trembling and astonished said, Lord, what wilt thou have me to do? And the Lord said unto him, Arise, and go into the city, and it shall be told thee what thou must do.

13 Then Ananias answered, Lord, I have heard by many of this man, how much evil he hath done to thy saints at Jerusalem:

Then the risen Christ appeared!
The blinding light of truth prevailed!

Easy to reconcile, if you sinned after getting saved you will lose your rewards, but still be eternally secured in Heaven

​

1 Corinthians 3:13-15​

13Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is. 14If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward. 15If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.

1) We are saved by Grace through Faith (Eph 2:8-9), that is our Salvation Doctrine in this Church Age until our Blessed Hope (Rapture), afterwards during the Tribulation then it'll be Faith + Works for Salvation
2) We received crowns, raiment and rewards when we do Good Works including Water Baptism, but these good works are Not what Saves You
3) Isn't Jesus Christ the only way to Heaven?

John 14:6 KJV​

“Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.”

Isn't Jesus Christ's precious holy blood sufficient to wash away all of our sins both past, present and future when we believe in His finished work at the Cross?

Romans 3:23-25 KJV
23For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God; 24Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus: 25Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;

Hebrews 10:18
Now where remission of these is, there is no more offering for sin.

There's no more offering for sin after we're Saved because Christ's blood is sufficient to cover all our sins till the day of redemption.

Ephesians 4:30 KJV​

“And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.”

 

[Dorothy Mae]

Mind to site a bible verse on grace changers?

Gladly. Jude 1 For certain individuals whose condemnation was written about long ago have secretly slipped in among you. They are ungodly people, who change the grace of our God into a license for immorality and deny Jesus Christ our only Sovereign and Lord.

We believe in Once Saved Always Saved because we are saved by grace through Faith not Works (Eph. 2:8-9)

Yes I know the theology well. However you behave makes no difference as to your ticket for Heaven.

We are still sealed till the day of redemption (Rapture) even if we sin after we've gotten saved, but that does not mean we are allowed to sin because of Gal. 6:7-10 and the Parable of the Fig Tree

Why aren’t you allowed to sin? You got you assurance of Heaven.

Here are some bible verse that will explain it
Ephesians 1:6 KJV
"To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved."

Where is the assurance of Heaven no matter how you treat God and others?

If you're Saved in Christ Jesus then you are called a "Beloved"

Until you aren’t.

Then go to 2 Corinthians 12:19-21 Where Paul is talking to other

And?

"Beloved" (Saved Christians)
19Again, think ye that we excuse ourselves unto you? we speak before God in Christ: but we do all things, dearly beloved, for your edifying. 20For I fear, lest, when I come, I shall not find you such as I would, and that I shall be found unto you such as ye would not: lest there be debates, envyings, wraths, strifes, backbitings, whisperings, swellings, tumults: 21And lest, when I come again, my God will humble me among you, and that I shall bewail many which have sinned already, and have not repented of the uncleanness and fornication and lasciviousness which they have committed.

And? You think they’re all going to Heaven anyway. You think a scripture saying “don’t do it”means they don’t?

As you've read there are some "Beloved" who have sinned and have not repented their sin after getting saved, but still called "Beloved" (Saved in Christ Jesus)

Until they aren’t.

Also the video I shared, that's Pastor Gene Kim, and his credentials includes Bachelors, Masters and Doctorate from Pensacola Bible Institute and UC Berkeley

Doesn’t impress me. Worldly degrees don’t impress Jesus either.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

This sounds contradictory. Suppose you do sin after being saved. What then? If I understand Galatians 6:7-10, those who would continue in sin will reap from the seeds of corruption for which they have sown.

Nice post…good thoughts. What if this refers to reaping in this life (but not only?) I have observed believers who refused the correction of God reaped the result…darkened understanding. In Corinthians Paul wrote sone believers actually died (prematurely) from their sinful behaviour.

 

[donadams]

Easy to reconcile, if you sinned after getting saved you will lose your rewards, but still be eternally secured in Heaven

​

1 Corinthians 3:13-15​

13Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is. 14If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward. 15If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.

1) We are saved by Grace through Faith (Eph 2:8-9), that is our Salvation Doctrine in this Church Age until our Blessed Hope (Rapture), afterwards during the Tribulation then it'll be Faith + Works for Salvation
2) We received crowns, raiment and rewards when we do Good Works including Water Baptism, but these good works are Not what Saves You
3) Isn't Jesus Christ the only way to Heaven?

John 14:6 KJV​

“Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.”

Isn't Jesus Christ's precious holy blood sufficient to wash away all of our sins both past, present and future when we believe in His finished work at the Cross?

Romans 3:23-25 KJV
23For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God; 24Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus: 25Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;

Hebrews 10:18
Now where remission of these is, there is no more offering for sin.

There's no more offering for sin after we're Saved because Christ's blood is sufficient to cover all our sins till the day of redemption.

Ephesians 4:30 KJV​

“And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.”

Baptism washes away all past sins, then little sins are forgiven in prayer and penance big sins after baptism must be confessed

Can you be saved without a priest?

 

[Hopeful]

Really?

Promise of God:
Sacred oath:
A promise or sacred oath made by God is called a sacrament:
A sacrament is also the fruit of a sacrifice, grace or the merits of Christ are fruit of His sacrifice on the cross!

Lk 1:72
Acts 2:39 referring to ez 36:25-27
Acts 1:4
Acts 2:33
Acts 13:23
Acts 13:32
Acts 26:6
Acts 26:7
Rom 1:2
2 Tim 1:1-2
2 pet 1:4
1 Jn 2:25 and many more!

I guess every sect has its definitions.
I abstain from everything that hints at catholicism.

 

[Hopeful]

We believe in Once Saved Always Saved because we are saved by grace through Faith not Works (Eph. 2:8-9)

Your false doctrine just outlawed obedience to God.
It has managed to declare obedience to God a "work".
What silliness...

 

[Hopeful]

Hebrews 12:6​

King James Version​

For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth.

When a Saved Christian sinned then God will chasten him/her, if a lost sinner sinned then he/she will be punished. Gal. 6:7-10 says that there are no exemption, when you sinned in your flesh then you will still reap what you sow even if you're a Saved Christian.

Remember, this is how God sees all of us

Isaiah 64:6 KJV​

“But we are all as an unclean thing, and all our righteousnesses are as filthy rags; and we all do fade as a leaf; and our iniquities, like the wind, have taken us away.”

Romans 3:10 KJV​

“As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:”

Saved Christians are only righteous in the sight of God because our sins have been covered by the blood of Jesus Christ, it is a gift that we don't deserve, but because Jesus Christ love us that He became the perfect sacrificial lamb for the remission of our sins, and we only have to put our faith in Him to get saved, it's that easy.

Romans 5:9 KJV​

“Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.”

John 6:47 KJV​

“Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me hath everlasting life.”

May I encourage you to read this Gospel Tract: ABC It's Simple To Be Saved

If one sins, it shows his repentance from sin was a lie to God.
We can't claim any fellowship with God if we are not in Christ. (1 John 1:5-6)

 

[Hopeful]

Psalm 51:5
Behold, I was shapen in iniquity; and in sin did my mother conceive me.

Hyperbole.

Romans 5:12
Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:

Death passed upon all men, not Adam's sin.

Without grace and Christ infants that die cannot go to heaven
Jn 3:5

Your false doctrine just condemned every baby aborted by the wretched unbelievers.

Acts 2:39 this promise is to you’re children

As soon as that baby can commit and repent of its own sins, it can be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of its own past sins.

What sort of bleak sect condemns the innocent ?

 

[Hopeful]

Luke 23:39-42 Malefactor/Thief/Criminal at the cross, no good works, no charity, no water baptism, and yet still saved by faith alone.

39 And one of the malefactors which were hanged railed on him, saying, If thou be Christ, save thyself and us.
40 But the other answering rebuked him, saying, Dost not thou fear God, seeing thou art in the same condemnation?
41 And we indeed justly; for we receive the due reward of our deeds: but this man hath done nothing amiss.
42 And he said unto Jesus, Lord, remember me when thou comest into thy kingdom.

1 Peter 3:21​

“The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:”

"[Water] Baptism doth also now save us, not the putting away of the filth of the flesh"
Water Baptism does not saved you from your sins, we do it because it's a command from God, so God will not be disappointed with us ("but the answer of a good conscience toward God").

Jesus had power on earth to forgive sins. (Matt 9:6 Mark 2:10)
Besides, Jesus had not yet died and been buried, much less raised from the dead: so no man could be baptized into Christ, into His death and burial, or raised with Christ to walk in newness of life. (Rom 6:3-7)
Three days later, however, they could.

 

[Hopeful]

Romans 11:6

But if by grace, then it is no more of works; otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it is of works, then it is no more of grace; otherwise work is no more work

I, for one, am glad we don't have to do the works of the Law that Paul wrote against to be saved.
Especially the dietary rules.

 

[Hopeful]

How do you know these things about the thief? Where does it say he had faith or faith alone?
Bad example cos the new covenant is not in effect till the death of the savior heb 9:16-17
Thanks

I feel that the resurrection of Christ is the true start of the NT/NC.

 

[Hopeful]

Our deeds declare whom we serve.
Jesus said we can't serve two masters, and that we will hate the one and hold to the other.
So those serving sin hate Jesus. (Matt 6:24)