Bible Study Does James 2 Teach Works for Salvation?

[donadams]

At least we don't provoke God to anger

Jeremiah 7:18​

“The children gather wood, and the fathers kindle the fire, and the women knead their dough, to make cakes to the queen of heaven, and to pour out drink offerings unto other gods, that they may provoke me to anger.”

Just cos there was a false queen of heaven don’t mean there is not a true one, Jesus Christ is king and in the line of David the king the mother of the king is queen
Also rev 12:1 queen mary
Rev 12:17 we are her children
Thanks

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Just cos there was a false queen of heaven don’t mean there is not a true one, Jesus Christ is king and in the line of David the king the mother of the king is queen
Also rev 12:1 queen mary
Rev 12:17 we are her children
Thanks

Luke 11:27-28

27As Jesus was saying these things, a woman in the crowd raised her voice and said, “Blessed is the womb that bore You, and blessed are the breasts that nursed You!”

28But He replied, “Blessed rather are those who hear the word of God and obey it.”

Stop unduly exalting Mary. Note how Jesus steers the woman's praise away from praise of Mary and onto hearing the word of God and obeying it. Note the word 'rather': "Blessed rather..."

 

[Dorothy Mae]

Matt 16:16 And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.

17 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.

Is Peter’s person blessed or Peter’s confession?

The fact that Peter knew the truth. The truth is the church is built on Jesus being the Christ.

Does Peter’s confession or Peter’s person receive divine revelation?

Since he was inspired by Satan shortly thereafter it needs to be considered.

18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

The church is built in Him being the Christ.

When God changes a man’s name abram to Abraham or Jacob to Israel or Simon to Peter it signifies an office!

And? The office of the rock??

Is Peter’s person or Peter’s confession who’s name is changed?

Is this your only response? Ever consider that “neither” is the answer?

And! Peter and rock are the same!

It’s a joke same as Isaac means he laughs.

19 And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.

WIP said it nicely that JESUS has the keys and will have them when we stand before Him. He authorized his apostles, all of them, to bind and loose. The record of the New Testament show that Peter had no special authority different than the others and wasn’t even the head.

Does Christ gives the keys to Peter’s person or Peter’s confession?

Neither, to all his apostles and still does.

Does Christ give the power to bind and loose to Peter’s person or to a confession?

Neither, his authority is still being given to his own.

James and the other apostles and their successors had local authority Peter was put in charge of the universal church by Christ till He returns in glory

No he wasn’t. There isn’t a shred of evidence for this. Not one word. Not even Peter believed this nonsense.

 

[donadams]

Christ is the rock of salvation not the rock the church is built on cos He is the builder Matt 16:18 on the apostles eph 2:20

Christ ascended to heaven he appointed Peter to take his place till he returns


Lk 22:32
Jesus prays for Peter alone

Jn 21:17 Peter entrusted with the flock or church

Only Peter and His successors have
Jurisdictional authority from Christ to govern the church!

Already acting in the person of Christ even acting as intermediary!

It is Jesus Christ who identifies peter with himself!

Matt 17:24 And when they were come to Capernaum, they that received tribute money came to Peter, and said, Doth not your master pay tribute?

25 He saith, Yes. And when he was come into the houser, Jesus prevented him, saying, What thinkest thou, Simon? of whom do the kings of the earth take custom or tribute? of their own children, or of strangers?

26 Peter saith unto him, Of strangers. Jesus saith unto him, Then are the children free.

27 Notwithstanding, lest we should offend them, go thou to the sea, and cast an hook, and take up the fish that first cometh up; and when thou hast opened his mouth, thou shalt find a piece of money: that take, and give unto them for me and thee.

It is Jesus Christ who identifies peter with himself! Matt 17:27

Jesus Christ gives the keys of the kingdom to peter matt 16:18-19 making him prime minister applying Isa 22:21-22 to peter

It’s Christ who does this

Why is the name of peter even mentioned?

Why does Christ change Peter’s name, God changing a persons name like Abram to Abraham or Jacob to Israel always signifies a mission or ministry!

Why does Christ give him the keys of jurisdictional authority that the prime minister holds under the king to administer the kingdom? Isa 22:21-22

How do you govern the church and administer the kingdom with a confession?

How do you give jurisdictional authority to a confession? (Keys of the kingdom)

How do you give a confession the power to bind and loose?


also have to explain
Isa 22:21-22 jurisdictional authority of the keys and called father
Matt 28:19 go teach baptize
Jn 20:21-23 same mission power and authority as christ
Eph 2:20 church built on the apostles
Matt 23 successors of Moses have the jurisdictional authority and the power to bind and loose which Christ says must be obeyed, then taken from them matt 21:43 given to Peter and the apostles and their successors

Lk 22:29 And I appoint unto you a kingdom, as my Father hath appointed unto me;
30 That ye may eat and drink at my table in my kingdom, and sit on thrones judging the twelve tribes of Israel.
31 And the Lord said, Simon, Simon, behold, Satan hath desired to have you, that he may sift you as wheat: (plural Peter and his successors)
32 But I have prayed for thee, that thy faith fail not: and when thou art converted, strengthen thy brethren.



Applies only to Peter as “prince of the apostles”!

Peter and his successors are the Leader of the apostles and the head of the church until Christ returns!

First and chief apostle!

Matt 10:2 Now the names of the twelve apostles are these; The first, Simon, who is called Peter,

Lk 22:29 And I appoint unto you a kingdom, as my Father hath appointed unto me;
30 That ye may eat and drink at my table in my kingdom, and sit on thrones judging the twelve tribes of Israel.
31 And the Lord said, Simon, Simon, behold, Satan hath desired to have you, that he may sift you as wheat: (plural Peter and his successors)
32 But I have prayed for thee, that thy faith fail not: and when thou art converted, strengthen thy brethren.

Lk 22:32 Christ prayed for Peter!

Peter is head of the church on earth in the place of Christ until His return!

Isa 22:21-22 21 And I will clothe him with thy robe, and strengthen him with thy girdle, and I will commit thy government into his hand: and he shall be a father to the inhabitants of Jerusalem, and to the house of Judah.

22 And the key of the house of David will I lay upon his shoulder; so he shall open, and none shall shut; and he shall shut, and none shall open.

Matt 16:19 And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.

Matt 23:1 power and authority of the kingdom known in the keys and binding and loosing, Matt 21:43 kingdom shall be taken from you given to another who will bear fruit. (Peter the apostles in holy church Lk 22:29)

Matt 17:27 Jesus identified peter with himself.

Matt 16:17 Peter alone received revelation from the Father

Lk 22:32 Peter to strengthen his brethren (the apostles)

Jn 21:17 feed my sheep

Peter exercises his authority over the apostles and the church!

Acts 1:15
Acts 3:4
Acts 5:5 5:10
Acts 10:44
Acts 15:7

ONLY TO PETER CHRIST SAID: THOU ART PETER AND UPON THIS ROCK I WILL BUILT MY CHURCH, AND THE GATES OF HELL SHALL NOT PREVAIL AGAINST IT!Matt 16:18

Peter is the prime minister, father, and head of the church on earth until Christ returns Isa 22:21-22

Seat of peter remains Until Christ returns
Matt 28:19-20


Matthew 5:14
Ye are the light of the world. A city that is set on an hill cannot be hid.


Rom 14:10 But why dost thou judge thy brother? or why dost thou set at nought thy brother? for we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ.

4 important questions:

1) How do you govern the church and administer the kingdom with a confession?

2) How do you give jurisdictional authority to a confession? (Keys of the kingdom)

3) How do you give a confession the power to bind and loose?

4) why did Christ give the keys to Peter (and only to Peter) keys of jurisdictional authority. Isa 22:21-22 why even bother to mention Peter if he is not involved?

Explain Jn 20:21 Peter and the apostles and their successors have the same mission, ministry, power, and authority as Christ! “As the father sent me, so I send you”!

Matt 28:19 christ communicates his authority to peter and the apostles to teach all nations, baptize all disciples!
Jn 20:21-23 apostles even have authority to forgive sins
Eph 2:20 church built on the apostles
Matt 23 the authority and power of the successors of Moses required to be obeyed are taken from them and given to Peter and the apostles

Jn 21:17
Peter commanded to Feed my sheep:

 

[Hopeful]

They did not receive power until Pentecost

Were they also not the church till then?
If a man is the foundation of the church, it was the church when Peter was born.
If, on the other hand, the church was founded on the fact that Jesus is the Son of God, the church came after Jesus declared that He He would build it on "that rock".

 

[Hopeful]

Christ is the rock of salvation not the rock the church is built on cos He is the builder Matt 16:18 on the apostles eph 2:20

Christ ascended to heaven he appointed Peter to take his place till he returns


Lk 22:32
Jesus prays for Peter alone

Jn 21:17 Peter entrusted with the flock or church

Only Peter and His successors have
Jurisdictional authority from Christ to govern the church!

Already acting in the person of Christ even acting as intermediary!

It is Jesus Christ who identifies peter with himself!

Matt 17:24 And when they were come to Capernaum, they that received tribute money came to Peter, and said, Doth not your master pay tribute?

25 He saith, Yes. And when he was come into the houser, Jesus prevented him, saying, What thinkest thou, Simon? of whom do the kings of the earth take custom or tribute? of their own children, or of strangers?

26 Peter saith unto him, Of strangers. Jesus saith unto him, Then are the children free.

27 Notwithstanding, lest we should offend them, go thou to the sea, and cast an hook, and take up the fish that first cometh up; and when thou hast opened his mouth, thou shalt find a piece of money: that take, and give unto them for me and thee.

It is Jesus Christ who identifies peter with himself! Matt 17:27

Jesus Christ gives the keys of the kingdom to peter matt 16:18-19 making him prime minister applying Isa 22:21-22 to peter

It’s Christ who does this

Why is the name of peter even mentioned?

Why does Christ change Peter’s name, God changing a persons name like Abram to Abraham or Jacob to Israel always signifies a mission or ministry!

Why does Christ give him the keys of jurisdictional authority that the prime minister holds under the king to administer the kingdom? Isa 22:21-22

How do you govern the church and administer the kingdom with a confession?

How do you give jurisdictional authority to a confession? (Keys of the kingdom)

How do you give a confession the power to bind and loose?


also have to explain
Isa 22:21-22 jurisdictional authority of the keys and called father
Matt 28:19 go teach baptize
Jn 20:21-23 same mission power and authority as christ
Eph 2:20 church built on the apostles
Matt 23 successors of Moses have the jurisdictional authority and the power to bind and loose which Christ says must be obeyed, then taken from them matt 21:43 given to Peter and the apostles and their successors

Lk 22:29 And I appoint unto you a kingdom, as my Father hath appointed unto me;
30 That ye may eat and drink at my table in my kingdom, and sit on thrones judging the twelve tribes of Israel.
31 And the Lord said, Simon, Simon, behold, Satan hath desired to have you, that he may sift you as wheat: (plural Peter and his successors)
32 But I have prayed for thee, that thy faith fail not: and when thou art converted, strengthen thy brethren.



Applies only to Peter as “prince of the apostles”!

Peter and his successors are the Leader of the apostles and the head of the church until Christ returns!

First and chief apostle!

Matt 10:2 Now the names of the twelve apostles are these; The first, Simon, who is called Peter,

Lk 22:29 And I appoint unto you a kingdom, as my Father hath appointed unto me;
30 That ye may eat and drink at my table in my kingdom, and sit on thrones judging the twelve tribes of Israel.
31 And the Lord said, Simon, Simon, behold, Satan hath desired to have you, that he may sift you as wheat: (plural Peter and his successors)
32 But I have prayed for thee, that thy faith fail not: and when thou art converted, strengthen thy brethren.

Lk 22:32 Christ prayed for Peter!

Peter is head of the church on earth in the place of Christ until His return!

Isa 22:21-22 21 And I will clothe him with thy robe, and strengthen him with thy girdle, and I will commit thy government into his hand: and he shall be a father to the inhabitants of Jerusalem, and to the house of Judah.

22 And the key of the house of David will I lay upon his shoulder; so he shall open, and none shall shut; and he shall shut, and none shall open.

Matt 16:19 And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.

Matt 23:1 power and authority of the kingdom known in the keys and binding and loosing, Matt 21:43 kingdom shall be taken from you given to another who will bear fruit. (Peter the apostles in holy church Lk 22:29)

Matt 17:27 Jesus identified peter with himself.

Matt 16:17 Peter alone received revelation from the Father

Lk 22:32 Peter to strengthen his brethren (the apostles)

Jn 21:17 feed my sheep

Peter exercises his authority over the apostles and the church!

Acts 1:15
Acts 3:4
Acts 5:5 5:10
Acts 10:44
Acts 15:7

ONLY TO PETER CHRIST SAID: THOU ART PETER AND UPON THIS ROCK I WILL BUILT MY CHURCH, AND THE GATES OF HELL SHALL NOT PREVAIL AGAINST IT!Matt 16:18

Peter is the prime minister, father, and head of the church on earth until Christ returns Isa 22:21-22

Seat of peter remains Until Christ returns
Matt 28:19-20


Matthew 5:14
Ye are the light of the world. A city that is set on an hill cannot be hid.


Rom 14:10 But why dost thou judge thy brother? or why dost thou set at nought thy brother? for we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ.

4 important questions:

1) How do you govern the church and administer the kingdom with a confession?

2) How do you give jurisdictional authority to a confession? (Keys of the kingdom)

3) How do you give a confession the power to bind and loose?

4) why did Christ give the keys to Peter (and only to Peter) keys of jurisdictional authority. Isa 22:21-22 why even bother to mention Peter if he is not involved?

Explain Jn 20:21 Peter and the apostles and their successors have the same mission, ministry, power, and authority as Christ! “As the father sent me, so I send you”!

Matt 28:19 christ communicates his authority to peter and the apostles to teach all nations, baptize all disciples!
Jn 20:21-23 apostles even have authority to forgive sins
Eph 2:20 church built on the apostles
Matt 23 the authority and power of the successors of Moses required to be obeyed are taken from them and given to Peter and the apostles

Jn 21:17
Peter commanded to Feed my sheep:

I will continue to worship God and His Son Jesus Christ, instead of any apostle.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

Christ is the rock of salvation not the rock the church is built on cos He is the builder Matt 16:18 on the apostles eph 2:20

Christ ascended to heaven he appointed Peter to take his place till he returns


Lk 22:32
Jesus prays for Peter alone

Jn 21:17 Peter entrusted with the flock or church

Only Peter and His successors have
Jurisdictional authority from Christ to govern the church!

Already acting in the person of Christ even acting as intermediary!

It is Jesus Christ who identifies peter with himself!

Matt 17:24 And when they were come to Capernaum, they that received tribute money came to Peter, and said, Doth not your master pay tribute?

25 He saith, Yes. And when he was come into the houser, Jesus prevented him, saying, What thinkest thou, Simon? of whom do the kings of the earth take custom or tribute? of their own children, or of strangers?

26 Peter saith unto him, Of strangers. Jesus saith unto him, Then are the children free.

27 Notwithstanding, lest we should offend them, go thou to the sea, and cast an hook, and take up the fish that first cometh up; and when thou hast opened his mouth, thou shalt find a piece of money: that take, and give unto them for me and thee.

It is Jesus Christ who identifies peter with himself! Matt 17:27

Jesus Christ gives the keys of the kingdom to peter matt 16:18-19 making him prime minister applying Isa 22:21-22 to peter

It’s Christ who does this

Why is the name of peter even mentioned?

Why does Christ change Peter’s name, God changing a persons name like Abram to Abraham or Jacob to Israel always signifies a mission or ministry!

Why does Christ give him the keys of jurisdictional authority that the prime minister holds under the king to administer the kingdom? Isa 22:21-22

How do you govern the church and administer the kingdom with a confession?

How do you give jurisdictional authority to a confession? (Keys of the kingdom)

How do you give a confession the power to bind and loose?


also have to explain
Isa 22:21-22 jurisdictional authority of the keys and called father
Matt 28:19 go teach baptize
Jn 20:21-23 same mission power and authority as christ
Eph 2:20 church built on the apostles
Matt 23 successors of Moses have the jurisdictional authority and the power to bind and loose which Christ says must be obeyed, then taken from them matt 21:43 given to Peter and the apostles and their successors

Lk 22:29 And I appoint unto you a kingdom, as my Father hath appointed unto me;
30 That ye may eat and drink at my table in my kingdom, and sit on thrones judging the twelve tribes of Israel.
31 And the Lord said, Simon, Simon, behold, Satan hath desired to have you, that he may sift you as wheat: (plural Peter and his successors)
32 But I have prayed for thee, that thy faith fail not: and when thou art converted, strengthen thy brethren.



Applies only to Peter as “prince of the apostles”!

Peter and his successors are the Leader of the apostles and the head of the church until Christ returns!

First and chief apostle!

Matt 10:2 Now the names of the twelve apostles are these; The first, Simon, who is called Peter,

Lk 22:29 And I appoint unto you a kingdom, as my Father hath appointed unto me;
30 That ye may eat and drink at my table in my kingdom, and sit on thrones judging the twelve tribes of Israel.
31 And the Lord said, Simon, Simon, behold, Satan hath desired to have you, that he may sift you as wheat: (plural Peter and his successors)
32 But I have prayed for thee, that thy faith fail not: and when thou art converted, strengthen thy brethren.

Lk 22:32 Christ prayed for Peter!

Peter is head of the church on earth in the place of Christ until His return!

Isa 22:21-22 21 And I will clothe him with thy robe, and strengthen him with thy girdle, and I will commit thy government into his hand: and he shall be a father to the inhabitants of Jerusalem, and to the house of Judah.

22 And the key of the house of David will I lay upon his shoulder; so he shall open, and none shall shut; and he shall shut, and none shall open.

Matt 16:19 And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.

Matt 23:1 power and authority of the kingdom known in the keys and binding and loosing, Matt 21:43 kingdom shall be taken from you given to another who will bear fruit. (Peter the apostles in holy church Lk 22:29)

Matt 17:27 Jesus identified peter with himself.

Matt 16:17 Peter alone received revelation from the Father

Lk 22:32 Peter to strengthen his brethren (the apostles)

Jn 21:17 feed my sheep

Peter exercises his authority over the apostles and the church!

Acts 1:15
Acts 3:4
Acts 5:5 5:10
Acts 10:44
Acts 15:7

ONLY TO PETER CHRIST SAID: THOU ART PETER AND UPON THIS ROCK I WILL BUILT MY CHURCH, AND THE GATES OF HELL SHALL NOT PREVAIL AGAINST IT!Matt 16:18

Peter is the prime minister, father, and head of the church on earth until Christ returns Isa 22:21-22

Seat of peter remains Until Christ returns
Matt 28:19-20


Matthew 5:14
Ye are the light of the world. A city that is set on an hill cannot be hid.


Rom 14:10 But why dost thou judge thy brother? or why dost thou set at nought thy brother? for we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ.

4 important questions:

1) How do you govern the church and administer the kingdom with a confession?

2) How do you give jurisdictional authority to a confession? (Keys of the kingdom)

3) How do you give a confession the power to bind and loose?

4) why did Christ give the keys to Peter (and only to Peter) keys of jurisdictional authority. Isa 22:21-22 why even bother to mention Peter if he is not involved?

Explain Jn 20:21 Peter and the apostles and their successors have the same mission, ministry, power, and authority as Christ! “As the father sent me, so I send you”!

Matt 28:19 christ communicates his authority to peter and the apostles to teach all nations, baptize all disciples!
Jn 20:21-23 apostles even have authority to forgive sins
Eph 2:20 church built on the apostles
Matt 23 the authority and power of the successors of Moses required to be obeyed are taken from them and given to Peter and the apostles

Jn 21:17
Peter commanded to Feed my sheep:

I see you are VERY catholic. This deeply affects your thinking on these matters and I see that no discussion will be fruitful. Probably best to move on.

 

[donadams]

I see you are VERY catholic. This deeply affects your thinking on these matters and I see that no discussion will be fruitful. Probably best to move on.

Christ only founded one true church Matt 16:18 on Peter and the apostles eph 2:20 and thier successors Matt 28:19-20 acts 1
Jn 16:13 thanks

 

[Dorothy Mae]

Christ only founded one true church Matt 16:18 on Peter and the apostles eph 2:20 and thier successors Matt 28:19-20 acts 1
Jn 16:13 thanks

That is the Catholic doctrine. I suggest you never read the history of the Catholic Church down through the Middle Ages and beyond. Just read Catholic versions if you want your theology to remain unchallenged.

 

[Christ_empowered]

To be fair all established religions have dirty laundry. Even Quakers! Omg I always admired the Quakers and their egalitarian policies and…

Yeah…they designed modern prisons and modern mental institutions. Thanks a lot y’all…

 

[Christ_empowered]

The mental hospital is what gets to me of course. Let’s just say…

The road to hell is paved with good intentions.

 

[jaybo]

From Chuck Clark:




Where I am coming from, as a former pastor (the least important qualification BTW); the more important is my having studied the Bible for over 60 years with the solid foundation of 5 years of Bible College that gave me the basic
principles of: 1st) what does the Bible actually SAY? That is, without reading anything INTO the text that isn't there! Technical terms, Exegesis rather than Eisegesis-- the former is simply opening up the truth of Scripture correctly. In order to do that we do need to know the tools to get to that truth i.e. first, but not practical for most of us is knowing the "original languages" (which I don't know, as is true of most of us), fortunately we do have many excellent versions of the Bible today with scholars who have that knowledge and do give us a pretty accurate understanding, but not completely.
Then, paying close attention to CONTEXT, in other words not taking single verses as a proof text. Actually, we need the near text-- the verses surrounding the verse-- but then the whole book itself and then expanded to the whole Bible!! Short sum of some of the other common-sense tools, like with any piece of literature. How the audience being written to, [like you point out that James is written to the 12 tribes, scattered abroad], would understand the points the author was getting at?
Next, getting to the "intent" of the writer and what he wanted to get across to his audience? Example, Paul to the Galatians and his amazement at their wanting to go back under the Law instead of enjoying their "freedom in Christ" as the end of the Law to all who believe by faith in His finished work on the cross! Next, to understand the audience. You need to know the historical setting in which they were living. How they would receive what the author was saying?
Lastly, for this writing, the genre, literal, symbolic, etc. A good rule of thumb is that "when the literal sense makes common sense, seek no other sense"!
Now getting to the seeming conflict between James, "show me your faith by your works" and Paul, "a man is justified BY FAITH ALONE" Since we know that God does not contradict Himself, we know there is a solution. To me it is pretty obvious, beyond the idea that James is talking about the Jews during the Tribulation period. That may or may not be the case, but for me it misses the direct answer. These are not contradictory statements at all, rather they are totally COMPLIMENTARY!
Here's why and how? James, as we know, is very practical and writes from what we can clearly observe from a human standpoint. If you say you have "GENUINE FAITH" you need to show it to be backed up by evidence in the way you live. He uses the example of Abraham, (the father of faith), he clearly showed that his faith was truly connected to God and was genuine SAVING FAITH, when he offered up Isaac ( the promised son) as a sacrifice to God on the alter on Mt. Moriah. Hebrews gives us the greater explanation as to how he could do such a thing: (context of the whole Bible), Heb. 11:19 "Abraham reasoned that God could raise the dead, and figuratively speaking, he did receive Isaac back from death. NIV As you should know almost the whole of Heb. 11 shows us how true faith was revealed by the "actions" of those listed there!
Paul, on the other hand, is writing from God's perspective: He knows everyone's heart, which we as men can't see, all we can see are the "works". A well know example shows what I am talking about. The life of David, particularly after his sin with Bathsheba and following murder of her husband and his cover up. Did he show during that time in his life that he had true faith. From a human observation we would say a definite no to his salvation.
Some of you who don't read the Scriptures as you may think you do as to what it actually SAYS, might say that if David had died during this time before he confessed and repented as we read in Psalm 32 and 51, after he was confronted by the prophet Nathan. Read carefully Psa. 51:11,12 esp. v. 12 "Restore to me the JOY of Thy salvation" Clearly, he did not lose his salvation, but the Joy of it
because of his covering it up his sin instead of confessing it and getting his heart right again. Notice to the phrase, "Thy Salvation" It is the Work of God, not of David or any man including you and me. If it were by "us" we for sure could and would lose it. It is totally of God and only by faith THAT HE ALONE GIVES US, that Christ's shed blood and Resurrected Life Justifies us in God's sight. Eph. 2:8-10 says it about as clear as any passage in Scripture, v8) For it is by Grace, (God's riches at Christ's Expense) you have been Saved, through faith--and it is not from yourselves, IT IS THE GIFT OF GOD--(can't be earned by our works!) v9) NOT BY WORKS, so that NO ONE CAN BOAST! 10) For we are GOD'S WORKMANSHIP, created IN CHRIST JESUS TO DO GOOD WORKS, which God prepared in advance for us to do. In other words, the works we do are not what saves us but they are the EVIDENCE that we have the Genuine Faith that we received from God alone!
So, Paul would agree with James that there should be the "Fruit of the Spirit" He, Jesus is the Vine, we are the branches, only when we are connected to Him do we produce the fruit. If a man does not have the Spirit, he is NONE OF HIS! As with David, we, still having our old nature as Paul described in Romans chap. 7 we too will have OUTWARD LAPSES! That is the context of the verse that tells us we are not to Judge, better word would be Condemn as though we are the final judge and can tell the person's heart, as to whether it is a lapse, or if the "good works" are an imitation of the real thing, coming from the Power of the Holy Spirit and not from the flesh?
There is much more that I could write to make the case, but hope this has been helpful and as part of this good platform, if you disagree, I welcome your feedback and reasons from Scripture for your disagreement.

Great and informative post! Thanks for writing it!

 

[donadams]

Opinions, accusations, aside and believe the Bible gates shall not prevail Matt 16:18-19 teach and sanctify all men Matt 28:19 without errors Jn 8;32 13:11 until Christ returns Matt 28:19 to the ends of the earth acts 1:8 pillar of truth 1 Tim 3:15 the new covenant church is the spotless bride of Christ prepared by God out of heaven and cannot be reformed as truth is from God and is immutable!

 

[Christ_empowered]

Just jumping in here..,

A live vibrant faith is marked by good deeds. That’s my interpretation. This doesn’t mean each believer must build an orphanage or bring thousands to Christ simply that each of us should abide in Him and allow Him to bear fruit in us…

Sometimes in tangible ways within our own social framework.

 

[Hopeful]

Opinions, accusations, aside and believe the Bible gates shall not prevail Matt 16:18-19 teach and sanctify all men Matt 28:19 without errors Jn 8;32 13:11 until Christ returns Matt 28:19 to the ends of the earth acts 1:8 pillar of truth 1 Tim 3:15 the new covenant church is the spotless bride of Christ prepared by God out of heaven and cannot be reformed as truth is from God and is immutable!

Amen.

 

[donadams]

A person is saved the moment they are justified. And justification is secured entirely by the power of God's forgiveness received by faith in that forgiveness. Obedience is simply the evidence of that faith and is not what actually makes a person righteous (justified).

Being water baptized is just one of those obediences. It has zero power to make you righteous. It is only an expression of the faith by which a person is made righteous all by itself apart from works of obedience.

I don’t see that in scripture, two verses say explicitly that baptism saves Mk 16:16 and 1 pet 3:21

And others refer to Gods promise is salvation acts 2:38/39
This “promise” ez 36:25-27
Others baptism washes away sin acts 22:13 more below

 

[donadams]

Faith & Baptism is the initiation of the new and eternal covenant!

You cannot enter on you’re own or by “faith alone”!

You cannot receive Christ or grace by “faith alone”!

“Accept Christ as you’re personal lord and savior” is fundamentalist tradition not found scripture!

Jn 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

2 pet 1: 11 For so an entrance shall be ministered unto you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.

Baptismal regeneration a new creation in Christ! 2 Cor 5:17

A sacrament is an oath! A sacred promise from God! Ez 36:25-27
Acts 2:38-39 (this promise)

No baptism no grace!

A sacrament is an outward sign for all men including infants And a gift from God to help us see what he does inwardly and invisibly by his grace!

As grace Washes our souls in the merits of Jesus blood from original and personal sin, so the outward action of washing is visible!

without the outward action the inward action cannot take place!

Jn 3:5 Titus 3:5 water and washing
acts 22:16 wash away your sin!

Jn 3:5 Born again BY water and the spirit! Not by “faith alone”!

They did not go to Jerusalem and preach “accept Christ as you’re personal Lord and savior “

They went to the river (water) and they baptized! Jn 3:22

A covenant requires an outward sign of the inward action of grace!

Ez 36:25 I will sprinkle you with clean water and you shall be made white as snow.

Acts 22:16 washing away your sins.

Eph 4:5 one Lord, one faith, one baptism.

1 pet 3:21 baptism saves you.

You cannot enter on you’re own or by faith alone!

2 pet 1: 11 For so an entrance shall be ministered unto you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.

Heb 2:11 For both he that sanctifieth and they who are sanctified are all of one: for which cause he is not ashamed to call them brethren,


Baptism!

God breathed life into Adam, gen 2:7 and we received this life from our fathers!

Christ breathed on the apostles our spiritual fathers, we receive the new covenant life of God’s grace from them thru faith & baptism! Jn 20:21-23 Mk 16:16 acts 8:36-38 eph 2

Born again! Born from above!

'The Father has set his seal' on Christ (John 6:27) and also seals us in him (cf. 2 Corinthians 1:22; Ephesians 1:23, 4:30). Because this seal indicates the indelible effect of the anointing with the Holy Spirit in the sacrament of Baptism,

Baptism indeed is the seal of eternal life." 87 The faithful Christian who I has "kept the seal" until the end, remaining faithful to the demands of his Baptism, will be able to depart this life "marked with the sign of faith," 88 with his baptismal faith, in expectation of the blessed vision of God - the consummation of faith - and in the hope of resurrection.

St. Paul tells the faithful at Ephesus that they have been “sealed with the promised Holy Spirit.” This is in terms of an indelible character imprinted on the soul in the sacraments of baptism and confirmation. It is not as if this invisible mark is simply decorative. Rather, through it, we are enabled to participate in Christ’s mission and in his offices of priest, prophet, and king. Eph 1:13

Sealed by God eph 1:13 sealed by God (ez 36:25-27) in the ark of salvation by baptism just as Noah was sealed by God in the ark of the flood gen 7:16

1 Pet 3:20 Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.

21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us!
(Ark of Noah a type of the church, member of Christ and his church and salvation by baptism!)
(Outside the ark of Noah none were saved, outside the church (the ark of salvation) none are saved!)

Sealed in the ark, sealed in the church the ark of salvation by God thru baptism!



Christ instituted the holy church for the salvation of all men, (repent and believe the gospel, with the institution of the sacraments to convey grace to sanctify souls!


Effects of faith & baptism!

Ez 36:25-27 washed in baptism, with a new heart and the Spirit
Jn 3:5 born again in baptism
Mk 16:16 faith & baptist
Acts 2:38 repentance & baptism
Acts 8:36-38 faith & baptism
Acts 22:16 baptism washes away sin
Rom 6:3 died with Christ
Col 2:12 risen with Christ
1 cor 12:13 baptized into the church
Gal 3:27 by baptism put on Christ
2 Tim 1:10 eph 2:1 and 5 brought to life
2 cor 5:17 new creation
Eph 1:13 sealed by the Holy Spirit
Eph 4:5 one faith, one baptism
Eph 5:26 faith and baptism
Titus 3:5 baptismal regeneration
1 pet 1:2 washed in Christ’s blood
1 pet 2:9 the kingdom of light
1 pet 3:20-21 baptism saves us!

“Faith alone” accomplishes nothing!
1 cor 13:2 even all faith (alone) without charity avails NOTHING!!!

Faith and baptism!

Scripture says none of the things about “Faith alone”!

2 Peter 1:11
For so an entrance shall be ministered unto you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.

The Christian sacrament of baptism is the Initiation into the new covenant and must be ministered to you by the apostles!




“Faith alone” Questions

where does scripture says we have died with Christ by “faith alone”?

Rom 6:3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?

where does scripture say we are members of Christ and his church by “faith alone”?

1 Corinthians 12:13
For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

where does scripture says we put on Christ by “faith alone”?

Galatians 3:27
For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.

Where does scripture say our sins are washed away by “faith alone”?

Acts 22:16
And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.

where does scripture say we are saved or justified by “faith alone”?

1 pet 3:21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us!

The only reference in scripture to “faith alone” is James 2:24 NOT BY “FAITH ALONE”?

2 pet 1: 11 For so an entrance shall be ministered unto you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.

How can you enter by your own if it must be ministered to you? Baptism is done unto you, “not do it yourself by faith alone”

Jn 3:5 born again by faith alone?

Where is “Accept Christ as your personal lord & savior” is found in scripture?

They did not go preaching this line but went immediately to the river and baptized Jn 3:22

Acts 22:16
And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.

1 Corinthians 12:13
For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

Galatians 3:27
For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.

Eph 4:5 one baptism

Why don’t it say one teeny tiny little act of “faith alone”???

When we first believed we are saved?

Romans 13:11
And that, knowing the time, that now it is high time to awake out of sleep: for now is our salvation nearer than when we believed.

How can salvation be nearer than when we first believed if you’re saved by believing?

1 pet 1:9 Receiving the end of your faith, even the salvation of your souls.

Matt 24:13 endures to the end Shall be saved.

How can salvation happen when we first believed if it’s the end?

If salvation is by “faith alone” then faith would be the greatest!
1 cor 13:13 charity is the greatest!

Even all faith much less “faith alone” without charity avails nothing!
1 cor 13:2

“Faith alone” unbiblical!

 

[donadams]

Sorry acts 22:16 not 22:13

 

[Jethro Bodine]

I don’t see that in scripture, two verses say explicitly that baptism saves Mk 16:16 and 1 pet 3:21

And others refer to Gods promise is salvation acts 2:38/39
This “promise” ez 36:25-27
Others baptism washes away sin acts 22:13 more below

Water does not do anything.
How do you wash away sin with water?
It don't work that way.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

You cannot enter on you’re own or by “faith alone”!

The faith that saves is not alone. It's just that the works that accompany saving faith play no role whatsover in literally making you righteous. Only the grace of God's forgiveness does that.

Most of the problem with talking to Catholics is they don't properly understand the argument they resist. The faith that justifies all by itself apart from works is the faith that produces works in a person, and so it is in that way that the faith that is alone does not justify. That has NOTHING to do with works somehow making a person righteous. No. You get God's righteousness imputed to you as a free gift by being forgiven, not as a reward of works for doing righteous things.