But the Catholic Church has taken everything and changed it to coprolite.
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Question About Holy Communion
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Edward
2024 Supporter
But what is that to you? Some thing they have wrong and other things they are wise about. I have no doubt that you can teach her something. I have no doubt that she can teach you some things. No one has all the answers. That is why we, as the body, need each other. Because no one has all the answers. Jesus said, I am the truth.
The Kingdom of God seems to be run compartmentalized, lol! Very much so in fact. After Jesus's resurection He was appearing to different people here and there, but no one had it all. They had to get together and compare notes!
Jesus was popping in and out all over the place! He was having fun with it! On the road to Emmaus, Jesus acted like He didn't know what had been happening!
Why are you men somber?
And they said know ye not the things that have transpired here recently? (the Crucifixion of Jesus!)
And Jesus is all, What things?! Like He didn't know, lol.
I find that hilarious and makes me feel good to know that Jesus has a great sense of humor.
Blood in acts is different.
Life is in the blood.
Life is in Jesus' blood.
He said whoever drinks of His water will never thirst again.
Perhaps the blood is HIS water.
Jesus said THIS IS MY BLOOD... He said DRINK IT.
Matthew 26:27-28
27And he took a cup of wine and gave thanks to God for it. He gave it to them and said, “Each of you drink from it,
28for this is my blood, which confirms the covenantd between God and his people. It is poured out as a sacrifice to forgive the sins of many.
Whether it's real blood or not we are to treat it as it was Christ's blood since Jesus said so.
D-D-W
2024 Supporter
Yes He did. But it had to be metaphorical. To tell someone (Jewish men) to break the Law by ingesting literal blood was a sin. According to Lev 3.17, never was anyone to ingest blood.
Did Jesus sin?
I very much agree with your first paragraph.
Although I still with state my OPINION about different topics, I won't argue about it incensantly because I think what you said is very wise.
We all know a piece, and it's the whole we strive for.
Very well put !
D-D-W
2024 Supporter
No. Covenants are for life, unless broken by one or more parties.
I don't know what we're discussing here.
Jesus said to drink what He called HIS blood.
THIS IS MY BLOOD...
Some churches believe this is metaphysical and symbolic.
OK. I guess anyone can give communion in that case.
If the Lutherans believe that Jesus is present in the Eucharist,
then I'd advise that only a Pastor is/or should be, allowed to administer communion.
Edward
2024 Supporter
One of the things that I have taken to doing during communion is to hold up the wine and make the declaration that, this IS the blood of Christ. And the cracker, this IS the body of Christ.
Now I can't see what happens in the spiritual realm when I say that, and it may or may not have any effect in the spiritual realm at all. But He did say that the power of life and death is in the tongue, so I say it anyway.
The New Covenant is unilateral and cannot be broken by man.
I agree.
I think if we're going to make a mistake, let's make it doing what Jesus stated.
IOW...better more theology than too little.
D-D-W
2024 Supporter
Actually, this change was not done by the Catholics, it was done by the Orthodox centuries before the RCC ever existed. In the wake of the Bar Kochba revolt of 135 ad, Rome came down hard on the Jews and anything that looked Jewish. Drinking blood was abhorrent to the Jews as was eating pork. So the Orthodox church required both and communion was claimed to be real blood.
D-D-W
2024 Supporter
That is not true. Covenants are not supposed to be broken but it can happen.
Marriage is supposed to be eternal but Deut 24 lists out the details on how to divorce. Yes, God hates it (per Malachi) but allows for it in some instances.
Edward
2024 Supporter
I remember listening to a study about covenants awile back and iirc, there are different types of covenants? One is a salt covenant where two parties both take out a few piches of their salt and mix it in a bowl together and dip bread in it and have a meal together to signify Frienship and this is an everlasting covenant...
But I'm sure they made the point that blood covenants are renewed daily. Morning prayer. Communion is more than wine and bread. It's a communion with Christ. A fellowshipping in the spirit. So you prolly don't have to take wine and bread every day? I don't. Just when I'm drawn to.
If the New Covenant is UNILATERAL...one sided only and only on the side of God...
HOW can it be broken?
Doesn't God keep His word?
Or do you believe the NC is bilateral??
D-D-W
2024 Supporter
Of course it is bilateral. Unilateral has no "ifs" associated with it. Our Lord listed plenty of ifs in His gospel.
To say otherwise is to fall into the error of calvinism, which totally negates the "choose you this day whom you shall serve."
Edward
2024 Supporter
Or I could be totally wrong, lol. The thought struck me, what if we didn't even really need wine or bread at all? Maybe that ritual was introduced to man to get him focused on God in Spirit and man needs something to focus on anyway so it might just prepare a man's spirit to be in tune with God so that the real communion of Spirit bwtween Believer and God can take place?
I'll still use wine and bread, but, just a thought.
But the gospel is not the Covenant.
The New Covenant states that all are welcomed.
It is an unconditional covenant.
There are no conditions to join it - one must only want to be a part of it. Unlike the Mosaic, for example, where the people had the condition that they had to obey.
It is a covenant of King to Servant.
The sign of the NC is the Eucharist...some believe it is Baptism, but baptism existed also before the NC and communion did not.
The seal of the NC is the shedding of blood, the sacrifice. It is the last sacrifice.
We find the NC already in Jeremiah 31:31-34
This is the NC:
1. God will write the laws on the heart.
2. He will be their God and we will be His people.
3. All are invited and those in the NC will know God.
4. An internal spiritual transformation with a new possibility of obedience.
5. Sins will be forgiven.
source: My teaching notes.
I don't think you could be wrong.
Jesus said to do this when we gather together.
To do it in remembrance of Him.
Remembrance is different than doing something in the memory of...
In John 6 Jesus says that we cannot live without eating the new manna from heaven, HIM.
He said that we have NO LIFE IN HIM. John 6:53
And in verse 54 Jesus says that he who eats His flesh and drinks His blood has eternal life.
I think Jesus meant what He said.
What else could He have meant?
I contacted my pastor about this and this was the response. Underline added by me.
Great question. As Lutherans, we believe in the “Priesthood of all believers” which means that all baptized Christians are priests. As a priest, we all have the ability to preside over the Lord’s Supper and Baptisms.
In a time between pastors, a lay person could certainly deliver the Lord’s Supper. You could by all means get up and speak the Words of Institution and deliver the Lord’s Supper. This is the same for baptism as well. It is the word doing the work.
This is what you’d see laid out in the Book of Concord and in Scripture but some Lutheran denominations do restrict this. LCMS and ELCA have further parameters that limit it to ordained individuals, trying to hold control a bit more.
Acts 15:29 kjv
29 That ye abstain from meats offered to idols, and from blood, and from things strangled, and from fornication: from which if ye keep yourselves, ye shall do well. Fare ye well.
30. So when they were dismissed, they came to Antioch: and when they had gathered the multitude together, they delivered the epistle:
This was the message from authority in Jerusalem. (At a point in time).
To track and compare the whole issue is a personal issue.
To read a book someone wrote may or may not be true.
Romans 14:2 kjv
2. For one believeth that he may eat all things: another, who is weak, eateth herbs.
3. Let not him that eateth despise him that eateth not; and let not him which eateth not judge him that eateth: for God hath received him.
What we have is different beliefs and how we deal with ourselves and others.
We do respect the journey everyone is on.
Have I got it all together ? No. Do I see differences in the body of Christ? Yes.
do I see unity? Yes.
eddif