Bible Study Accepted in the Beloved: Why My Redemption and Adoption is Eternally Secure.

[JLB]

Accepted in the Beloved: Why My Redemption and Adoption is Eternally Secure.​

Your redemption and adoption is eternally secure because Jesus' ministry and sacrifice can never fail like the Levitical ministry and sacrifice could, and did. It is not secure because you can not lose it. Assuming a true believer can stop believing, the salvation that is eternally secure will be lost by the (ex) believer who willingly goes back to his old life of unbelief and wanton sin.

Amen.

No longer having a viable defense against the lusts of the flesh, by walking in the Spirit, the (ex) believer or (un) believer will certainly succumb again to the flesh’s sinful appetite and be overcome.


While they promise them liberty, they themselves are slaves of corruption; for by whom a person is overcome, by him also he is brought into bondage. For if, after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again entangled in them and overcome, the latter end is worse for them than the beginning. For it would have been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than having known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered to them.
2 Peter 2:19-21






JLB

 

[Jethro Bodine]

No longer having a viable defense against the lusts of the flesh, by walking in the Spirit, the (ex) believer or (un) believer will certainly succumb again to the flesh’s sinful appetite and be overcome.

Yes. His unbelief being the reason he is condemned by his sins, not because he failed to do works of righteousness to be saved as some misunderstand the argument.

 

[Tenchi]

While they promise them liberty, they themselves are slaves of corruption; for by whom a person is overcome, by him also he is brought into bondage. For if, after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again entangled in them and overcome, the latter end is worse for them than the beginning. For it would have been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than having known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered to them.
2 Peter 2:19-21

This is, I believe, a description, not of a genuine believer losing their salvation, but, as the entire chapter makes clear, of the false teacher, the "wolf in sheeps' clothing" within the Church. They have gained a knowledge of the "way of righteousness" found in Jesus Christ, but have turned from it to self-serving manipulation of the flock of God. These are they who, standing on the ladder of the knowledge of the Gospel, able by it to entirely escape the pit of sinful pollution in which they've been living, descend the ladder back into the pit, rejecting escape from the World and its corruption. Much worse it is for such people, for God will hold them accountable for the greater light they had obtained (to whom much is given, much is required). And knowing the way of escape from the World but rejecting it, these false teachers have willfully cut themselves off from the only means of escape that there is, hardening themselves against any future consideration of it.

 

[JLB]

This is, I believe, a description, not of a genuine believer losing their salvation, but, as the entire chapter makes clear, of the false teacher, the "wolf in sheeps' clothing" within the Church. They have gained a knowledge of the "way of righteousness" found in Jesus Christ, but have turned from it to self-serving manipulation of the flock of God. These are they who, standing on the ladder of the knowledge of the Gospel, able by it to entirely escape the pit of sinful pollution in which they've been living, descend the ladder back into the pit, rejecting escape from the World and its corruption. Much worse it is for such people, for God will hold them accountable for the greater light they had obtained (to whom much is given, much is required). And knowing the way of escape from the World but rejecting it, these false teachers have willfully cut themselves off from the only means of escape that there is, hardening themselves against any future consideration of it.

They have forsaken the right way and gone astray, following the way of Balaam the son of Beor, who loved the wages of unrighteousness; but he was rebuked for his iniquity: a dumb donkey speaking with a man’s voice restrained the madness of the prophet.
These are wells without water, clouds carried by a tempest, for whom is reserved the blackness of darkness forever.
For when they speak great swelling words of emptiness, they allure through the lusts of the flesh, through lewdness, the ones who have actually escaped from those who live in error. While they promise them liberty, they themselves are slaves of corruption; for by whom a person is overcome, by him also he is brought into bondage. For if, after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again entangled in them and overcome, the latter end is worse for them than the beginning. For it would have been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than having known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered to them. But it has happened to them according to the true proverb: “A dog returns to his own vomit,” and, “a sow, having washed, to her wallowing in the mire.”
2 Peter 2:15-22



Sorry but the words of truth are unmistakable and crystal clear.


A person was cleansed from their sin and defilement through the only possible way, which is hearing and believing the Gospel, the only experience (knowledge) by which a person is saved and free.


They RETURNED is undeniable, sir. Irrefutable.




JLB

 

[Tenchi]

Sorry but the words of truth are unmistakable and crystal clear.


A person was cleansed from their sin and defilement through the only possible way, which is hearing and believing the Gospel, the only experience (knowledge) by which a person is saved and free.


They RETURNED is undeniable, sir. Irrefutable.

But as I've just demonstrated, your view isn't "undeniable" and "irrefutable." There is a perfectly scripturally-careful alternative understanding of Peter's words which I've laid out. And nothing you've offered in your response does anything to defeat my view. By raw assertion and underlining and coloring certain words you've tried to establish that your view is "unmistakable" and "crystal clear" but these things don't actually constitute an effective argument for your view. Merely being certain you're right doesn't, by itself, make you so.

I would point out that Peter never says in the passage in question that the false teachers were "cleansed from their sin" nor that they believed the Gospel. All he indicates is that there was "a knowledge of the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ."

2 Peter 2:19-21 (NASB)
19 promising them freedom while they themselves are slaves of corruption; for by what a man is overcome, by this he is enslaved.
20 For if, after they have escaped the defilements of the world by the knowledge of the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again entangled in them and are overcome, the last state has become worse for them than the first.
21 For it would be better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than having known it, to turn away from the holy commandment handed on to them.

Peter speaks only of a knowledge of Christ, not a saving faith in him, which James pointed out inevitably results in corresponding conduct (James 2:18-22). And nothing Peter described in the foregoing chapter suggests there was any genuine salvation that had taken place in the lives of the false teachers as a consequence of their knowledge of the Gospel, either.

The person on the ladder of the Gospel that will lift them out of the pit of the World entirely has risen above its pollutions, but being only on the ladder, they remain yet in the pit. Only if they continue up the ladder of knowledge completely, forsaking the World and living by faith in Christ instead, are they truly escaped from defilement and entered into the way of righteousness. This is not what Peter described had happened to those in view in 2 Peter 2 and so I don't see any ground in what he wrote for a saved-and-lost view.

 

[JLB]

But as I've just demonstrated, your view isn't "undeniable" and "irrefutable." There is a perfectly scripturally-careful alternative understanding of Peter's words

You either understand plain clear words or you don’t.

• For if, after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again entangled in them and overcome, the latter end is worse for them than the beginning.

How does a person escape the corruption of the world?

By hearing and believing the Gospel, the knowledge (experience knowledge) of salvation.


You either escape the corruption of the world or you don’t.

This passage identifies those who have indeed ESCAPED the corruption of the world through receiving and believing information, knowledge, the word of Christ, and then they have FORSAKEN the right way and gone astray and became ENTANGLED AGAIN and are overcome. Instead of overcoming, they themselves became ENTANGLED AGAIN and overcome.


He who overcomes shall inherit all things, and I will be his God and he shall be My son. But the cowardly, unbelieving, abominable, murderers, sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death. Revelation 21:7-8

Verse 8 is an example of the pollutions of the world.




They have forsaken the right way and gone astray, following the way of Balaam the son of Beor, who loved the wages of unrighteousness; but he was rebuked for his iniquity: a dumb donkey speaking with a man’s voice restrained the madness of the prophet.
These are wells without water, clouds carried by a tempest, for whom is reserved the blackness of darkness forever.
For when they speak great swelling words of emptiness, they allure through the lusts of the flesh, through lewdness, the ones who have actually escaped from those who live in error. While they promise them liberty, they themselves are slaves of corruption; for by whom a person is overcome, by him also he is brought into bondage. For if, after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again entangled in them and overcome, the latter end is worse for them than the beginning. For it would have been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than having known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered to them. But it has happened to them according to the true proverb: “A dog returns to his own vomit,”and, “a sow, having washed, to her wallowing in the mire.”
2 Peter 2:15-22


A person was cleansed from their sin and defilement through the only possible way, which is hearing and believing the Gospel, the only experience (knowledge) by which a person is saved and free.


You either can read and understand or you can’t.






JLB

 

[JLB]

I don't see

That is evident.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

The saved Galatians made Christ of no effect to them in justification - Galatians 5:1-5.

Did they remain in that state proving one can lose their justification in Christ and, thus, there salvation? We don't know. We just know that a Christian can indeed make Christ of no effect to them in justification.

OSAS asserts that would never happen to true believers, or if it did they would not remain in that unbelief ( depending on which version of OSAS one subscribes to). Of course, the non- OSAS position is that they are able to remain in that rejection of Christ.

 

[Tenchi]

You either understand plain clear words or you don’t.

Is your aim to persuade? Or just to verbally stamp your foot? It's hard to tell here...

How does a person escape the corruption of the world?

By hearing and believing the Gospel, the knowledge (experience knowledge) of salvation.

And, as I already told you, Peter doesn't ever say that the false teachers of 2 Peter 2 had believed the Gospel. What's more, everything he wrote about them in chapter 2 indicates that they weren't genuine believers. So, reconcile these things to what you're proposing. It seems pretty obvious to me that whatever Peter meant by "escape," he didn't mean "saved." In light of what I wrote in the OP to this derailed thread, this seems to me doubly to be true.

I've offered one possible alternative reading to 2 Peter 2:20-21. I don't see any reason to offer you another.

You either escape the corruption of the world or you don’t.

Well, this simplistic reading serves your view but it is by no means a necessary reading, as you contend. A man climbing a rope out of a pit filled with hungry, snapping crocodiles has escaped their toothy jaws but he is not saved from them 'til he ascends the rope out of the pit entirely. A man who has climbed to the topmost branches of a tree to escape the fangs and claws of a grizzly bear has escaped the bear but he is not, therefore, saved. The bear might climb up after him if the tree is big enough, or knock the tree over if it's small enough. Though he has escaped the bear's deadly teeth, the man is far from saved. A man shipwrecked on a sandy atoll bearing a single palm tree has escaped the dangers of the ocean, but he is not saved. If he is not rescued from the atoll, he'll die of exposure and thirst within a few days. And so on. It is quite easy to think of situations in which a person has escaped from some evil or danger without being saved from it. So, no, it isn't necessarily the case that "you either escape the corruption of the world or you don't."

This passage identifies those who have indeed ESCAPED the corruption of the world through receiving and believing information, knowledge,

The passage doesn't say anything about the false teachers believing what they had come to know.

A person was cleansed from their sin and defilement through the only possible way, which is hearing and believing the Gospel, the only experience (knowledge) by which a person is saved and free.

See above.

You either can read and understand or you can’t.

Right back at you, brother.

 

[Tenchi]

That is evident.

You're not used to folks disagreeing with you, I guess.

 

[Tenchi]

The saved Galatians made Christ of no effect to them in justification - Galatians 5:1-5.

Did they remain in that state proving one can lose their justification in Christ and, thus, there salvation? We don't know. We just know that a Christian can indeed make Christ of no effect to them in justification.

In light of the things I explained in the OP of this thread, I don't think Paul was indicating to the believers in Galatia that they could lose their salvation.

Galatians 5:1-4 (NASB)
1 It was for freedom that Christ set us free; therefore keep standing firm and do not be subject again to a yoke of slavery.
2 Behold I, Paul, say to you that if you receive circumcision, Christ will be of no benefit to you.
3 And I testify again to every man who receives circumcision, that he is under obligation to keep the whole Law.
4 You have been severed from Christ, you who are seeking to be justified by law; you have fallen from grace.

I think verse 2 explains what Paul meant by "fallen from grace": "Christ will be of no benefit to you." What does this mean? Well, some want to assume it means, "No longer saved." But this isn't, it seems to me, a reasonable assumption to make. If, for example, I wanted to trim my lawn with a pair of scissors instead of the lawnmower I have in my garage, would I no longer possess the mower? Certainly, using scissors rather than the mower would mean I wouldn't benefit from the mower's far superior grass-cutting capabilities, but it doesn't follow that this means I no longer possess the mower.

So, too, with salvation. Though I may not benefit from the "lawnmower" of the indwelling Christ while I seek to be justified by the "scissors" of law-keeping, that lack of benefit does not mean I no longer possess Christ (and am possessed of him).

 

[gordon777]

When, by faith, a lost person trusts in Christ as their Savior and yields to him as their Lord (Romans 10:9-10; James 4:6-10), they are placed "in Christ" by the Holy Spirit, the Spirit of Christ (Romans 8:9), who comes to live within them giving them new, spiritual life, the life of Jesus, clothing them in his perfect righteousness. (1 Corinthians 6:19-20; 1 John 4:13; Romans 13:14; Galatians 3:27; Galatians 2:20, etc.)

"Clothed" in Christ, robed in his righteousness, God sees the born-again person in him, made perfect - spiritually-speaking, not literally - in him, and thus are acceptable to God.

Ephesians 1:4-7
4 just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we would be holy and blameless before Him. In love
5 He predestined us to adoption as sons through Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the kind intention of His will,
6 to the praise of the glory of His grace, which He freely bestowed on us in the Beloved.
7 In Him we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of our trespasses, according to the riches of His grace

2 Corinthians 5:17-18
17 Therefore if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creature; the old things passed away; behold, new things have come.
18 Now all these things are from God, who reconciled us to Himself through Christ...

Only, ever, in and through Christ, is the born-again believer accepted by God as one of His own. God accepts us solely because we are in Christ. Our success in living in a holy manner, our ability to obey God perfectly has nothing to do with why God accepts us and it never has anything to do with His continued acceptance of us. For the moment our obedience, our holiness, becomes in any measure the basis for our acceptance by God, in that same measure we become a co-Savior with Christ, sharing in the means by which we are saved. Scripture, however absolutely denies such an idea:

Galatians 3:1-3 (NASB)
1 You foolish Galatians, who has bewitched you, before whose eyes Jesus Christ was publicly portrayed as crucified?
2 This is the only thing I want to find out from you: did you receive the Spirit by the works of the Law, or by hearing with faith?
3 Are you so foolish? Having begun by the Spirit, are you now being perfected by the flesh?

1 Corinthians 1:29-31
29 ...no man may boast before God.
30 But by His doing you are in Christ Jesus, who became to us wisdom from God, and righteousness and sanctification, and redemption,
31 so that, just as it is written, "LET HIM WHO BOASTS, BOAST IN THE LORD."

The Galatians as told in Galatians 3, began in the Spirit ( saved) and were bewitched, by returning to the flesh. ( no Spirit, not saved.)

They of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continues not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them. But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith.

Paul preaches the cross to the Galatians, how Christ has redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangs on a tree: that the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.

Galatians 4 continues, and Paul addresses them as travailing in birth for them AGAIN, as Christ was not formed in them any longer.

Paul speaks to them, that THEY DESIRE TO BE UNDER THE LAW.

Paul tells them what the law is, ( the covenant of he that was born after the flesh) and Paul tells them of the covenant of promise, ( the promise of the Spirit)

Paul tells of Jerusalem which is above which is free, who has more children than she which has a husband. ( those in the law have less children, than those of the promise, because the barren, had more children/who before this had no husband/no betrothal to the Lord, until as Hosea 2 testifies, we are betrothed to the Lord in faithfulness.)



Hosea 2:20 I will even betroth thee unto me in faithfulness: and thou shalt know the Lord.

Galatians 3:10 For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.
11 But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith.

Galatians 3:13 Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree:
14 That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.

Galatians 4:19 My little children, of whom I travail in birth again until Christ be formed in you,
20 I desire to be present with you now, and to change my voice; for I stand in doubt of you.
21 Tell me, ye that desire to be under the law, do ye not hear the law?

Galatians 4:23 But he who was of the bondwoman was born after the flesh; but he of the freewoman was by promise.

Galatians 4:26 But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all.
27 For it is written, Rejoice, thou barren that bearest not; break forth and cry, thou that travailest not: for the desolate hath many more children than she which hath an husband.



2 Corinthians 7, begins to speak of these promises ( of faith and of the Spirit.) so that through ( belief in them and not in law) them we cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit, perfecting holiness in the FEAR OF GOD. ( in the law they cant have fear of God, as this is the promise of the Spirit too. Isaiah 11:2-3.)



Isaiah 11:2 And the spirit of the Lord shall rest upon him, the spirit of wisdom and understanding, the spirit of counsel and might, the spirit of knowledge and of the fear of the Lord;
3 And shall make him of quick understanding in the fear of the Lord: and he shall not judge after the sight of his eyes, neither reprove after the hearing of his ears:

2 Corinthians 7:1 Having therefore these promises, dearly beloved, let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit, perfecting holiness in the fear of God.



Now the quoted verses can show how holy and blameless before Him in love, is in the shed love of Christ into our hearts, His same love that is in righteousness and true holiness. ( Ephesians 4:24.)



Ephesians 1:4 just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we would be holy and blameless before Him. In love

Ephesians 4:24 And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.

2 Corinthians 5:17 Therefore if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creature; the old things passed away; behold, new things have come.

 

[gordon777]

In light of the things I explained in the OP of this thread, I don't think Paul was indicating to the believers in Galatia that they could lose their salvation.

Galatians 5:1-4 (NASB)
1 It was for freedom that Christ set us free; therefore keep standing firm and do not be subject again to a yoke of slavery.
2 Behold I, Paul, say to you that if you receive circumcision, Christ will be of no benefit to you.
3 And I testify again to every man who receives circumcision, that he is under obligation to keep the whole Law.
4 You have been severed from Christ, you who are seeking to be justified by law; you have fallen from grace.

I think verse 2 explains what Paul meant by "fallen from grace": "Christ will be of no benefit to you." What does this mean? Well, some want to assume it means, "No longer saved." But this isn't, it seems to me, a reasonable assumption to make. If, for example, I wanted to trim my lawn with a pair of scissors instead of the lawnmower I have in my garage, would I no longer possess the mower? Certainly, using scissors rather than the mower would mean I wouldn't benefit from the mower's far superior grass-cutting capabilities, but it doesn't follow that this means I no longer possess the mower.

So, too, with salvation. Though I may not benefit from the "lawnmower" of the indwelling Christ while I seek to be justified by the "scissors" of law-keeping, that lack of benefit does not mean I no longer possess Christ (and am possessed of him).

I explained the OP now for us all.


In light of what I just shared, ( the Galatians desired to be under the law, under a curse, not under freedom, belief in Christ redeeming us from the curse of the law, by Christ being made a curse for us/this is preaching of the cross.)

That goes with circumcision ( the laws they show they desired to continue following) which meant they are in debt to do the whole law/fallen from grace. ( the law is a curse and is not faith/no Spirit, which comes by the hearing of faith, of the cross.)

Hebrews ( they in the law) shows more, how we follow peace and holiness with all men or we do not see the Lord ( Holiness is before God and before men the same)

We look diligently or we fail the grace of God, ( as the Galatians had fallen from grace by not looking diligently, and by instead following law and curse.)

Not to be a fornicator or profane person as Esau, who sold his birthright. ( there is no place of repentance for us, if we follow that same vain way also, proving once saved always saved, is only for those who desire to be under the law, where there is no faith. The Hebrews did not escape who refused Him that spoke, and we shall not escape either.)


Hebrews 12:14 Follow peace with all men, and holiness, without which no man shall see the Lord:
15 Looking diligently lest any man fail of the grace of God; lest any root of bitterness springing up trouble you, and thereby many be defiled;
16 Lest there be any fornicator, or profane person, as Esau, who for one morsel of meat sold his birthright.
17 For ye know how that afterward, when he would have inherited the blessing, he was rejected: for he found no place of repentance, though he sought it carefully with tears.

Hebrews 12:25 See that ye refuse not him that speaketh. For if they escaped not who refused him that spake on earth, much more shall not we escape, if we turn away from him that speaketh from heaven:

 

[gordon777]

And, as I already told you, Peter doesn't ever say that the false teachers of 2 Peter 2 had believed the Gospel. What's more, everything he wrote about them in chapter 2 indicates that they weren't genuine believers. So, reconcile these things to what you're proposing. It seems pretty obvious to me that whatever Peter meant by "escape," he didn't mean "saved." In light of what I wrote in the OP to this derailed thread, this seems to me doubly to be true.

What does Peter say about these people in 2 Peter 2 ?

That with feigned words these make merchandise of you.

Also that God spared not angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell reserved to judgement.

God spared not the old world, but saved Noah the preacher of righteousness, bringing in the flood on the world of the ungodly.

The cities of Sodom and Gomorrah condemned with an overthrow, making them an ensample unto those that after should live ungodly; and delivered just Lot, vexed with the filthy conversation of the wicked.


2 Peter 2:3 And through covetousness shall they with feigned words make merchandise of you: whose judgment now of a long time lingereth not, and their damnation slumbereth not.
4 For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment;
5 And spared not the old world, but saved Noah the eighth person, a preacher of righteousness, bringing in the flood upon the world of the ungodly;
6 And turning the cities of Sodom and Gomorrha into ashes condemned them with an overthrow, making them an ensample unto those that after should live ungodly;
7 And delivered just Lot, vexed with the filthy conversation of the wicked:



But, if you guys want more information on the same matter, all you had to do was remember Jude, speaks of the exact same account/matter.

Jude puts us in remembrance, how the Lord saved the people out of Egypt, but afterwards destroyed them that believed not. ( God is therefore talking about those who were SAVED, also in 2 Peter 2, and how they are all destroyed, angels and all, for afterwards not believing.)

These filthy dreamers also defile the flesh, despise dominion and speak evil of dignities.

Jude 1:5 I will therefore put you in remembrance, though ye once knew this, how that the Lord, having saved the people out of the land of Egypt, afterward destroyed them that believed not.
6 And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.
7 Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.
8 Likewise also these filthy dreamers defile the flesh, despise dominion, and speak evil of dignities.



Here in Psalm 106, the exact same matter was told.

They understood not His wonders in Egypt, they remembered not His mercies, and provoked God at the red sea, but He saved them for His names sake, to make HIs mighty power to be known. He rebuked the red sea, it dried up and He led them through the depths, as through the wilderness.

He saved them and redeemed them, ( as Christ did for those mentioned in 2 Peter 2) thy believed HIs words, they sang HIs praise, ( as they sing in churches) they soon forgot His works, they waited no for HIs counsel. ( the devil takes the word out of their hearts, for who assume they are saved. Mark 4:15) and it is better that they never knew the way of truth, than after they have heard, to turn from the Holy commandment delivered unto them.


Psalm 106:7 Our fathers understood not thy wonders in Egypt; they remembered not the multitude of thy mercies; but provoked him at the sea, even at the Red sea.
8 Nevertheless he saved them for his name's sake, that he might make his mighty power to be known.
9 He rebuked the Red sea also, and it was dried up: so he led them through the depths, as through the wilderness.
10 And he saved them from the hand of him that hated them, and redeemed them from the hand of the enemy.
11 And the waters covered their enemies: there was not one of them left.
12 Then believed they his words; they sang his praise.
13 They soon forgat his works; they waited not for his counsel:

Mark 4:15 And these are they by the way side, where the word is sown; but when they have heard, Satan cometh immediately, and taketh away the word that was sown in their hearts.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

In light of the things I explained in the OP of this thread, I don't think Paul was indicating to the believers in Galatia that they could lose their salvation.

Galatians 5:1-4 (NASB)
1 It was for freedom that Christ set us free; therefore keep standing firm and do not be subject again to a yoke of slavery.
2 Behold I, Paul, say to you that if you receive circumcision, Christ will be of no benefit to you.
3 And I testify again to every man who receives circumcision, that he is under obligation to keep the whole Law.
4 You have been severed from Christ, you who are seeking to be justified by law; you have fallen from grace.

I think verse 2 explains what Paul meant by "fallen from grace": "Christ will be of no benefit to you." What does this mean? Well, some want to assume it means, "No longer saved." But this isn't, it seems to me, a reasonable assumption to make.

The context is 'justification'.

4You who are trying to be justified by the law have been severed from Christ; you have fallen away from grace. Galatians 5:4

You can not have the benefit of justification in Christ apart from works if you are seeking to be justified by works. They are mutually exclusive.

If, for example, I wanted to trim my lawn with a pair of scissors instead of the lawnmower I have in my garage, would I no longer possess the mower? Certainly, using scissors rather than the mower would mean I wouldn't benefit from the mower's far superior grass-cutting capabilities, but it doesn't follow that this means I no longer possess the mower.

So, too, with salvation. Though I may not benefit from the "lawnmower" of the indwelling Christ while I seek to be justified by the "scissors" of law-keeping, that lack of benefit does not mean I no longer possess Christ (and am possessed of him).

The problem with your analogy is it doesn't represent the fact that you can not rely on the law for justification at the same time you are relying on Jesus for justification. You can't be a believer and an unbeliever at the same time. Ultimately, you can only be one or the other. But you can certainly have a pair of scissors and a lawn mower at the same time to cut you lawn and use each one by itself, or together, and the lawn still gets cut. So the analogy does not fit.

 

[Tenchi]

The context is 'justification'.
You can not have the benefit of justification in Christ apart from works if you are seeking to be justified by works. They are mutually exclusive.

But not, I think, mutually-eradicating. I've known many immature believers who have attempted to remain acceptable to God by careful obedience to His commands. They were no more unsaved in doing so than the Galatian believers were who, though guilty of "foolishness," "returning to beggarly elements," and "falling from grace" Paul still described as "brethren," "sons of God," "children of God," and "all one in Christ." (Galatians 3:15, 26-29; 4:6-7) Their "in Christ" position, which included their justification, did not benefit them while they worked to justify themselves through law-keeping in the sense that they could not rest confident in their justified position in their Savior, assured of their acceptance with God as those made righteous by him rather than by their own ability to live righteously. Positionally, the Galatian believers never ceased to be justified in Christ, but in their actual practical condition could not benefit from this fact in a settled, joyful certainty in God's acceptance of them - a circumstance I was addressing in the OP to this thread.

 

[Tenchi]

The problem with your analogy is it doesn't represent the fact that you can not rely on the law for justification at the same time you are relying on Jesus for justification. You can't be a believer and an unbeliever at the same time.

I don't think, as I've explained, that relying on one's law-keeping in justification of oneself before God necessarily means one has stepped out of a born-again condition. As my analogy illustrated, one can possess salvation while not benefiting practically from it. This is all, I believe, what Paul was saying.

Ultimately, you can only be one or the other. But you can certainly have a pair of scissors and a lawn mower at the same time to cut you lawn and use each one by itself, or together, and the lawn still gets cut. So the analogy does not fit.

But, as Paul wrote in Galatians 5, the matter was one of benefit, not possession. As an example of this distinction my analogy serves very well.

 

[gordon777]

Tenchi said "If, for example, I wanted to trim my lawn with a pair of scissors instead of the lawnmower I have in my garage, would I no longer possess the mower? Certainly, using scissors rather than the mower would mean I wouldn't benefit from the mower's far superior grass-cutting capabilities, but it doesn't follow that this means I no longer possess the mower.

So, too, with salvation. Though I may not benefit from the "lawnmower" of the indwelling Christ while I seek to be justified by the "scissors" of law-keeping, that lack of benefit does not mean I no longer possess Christ (and am possessed of him)."


Firstly it would indicate madness, bewitchment as spoken in Galatians.

If a person abandons their lawnmower, are they sensible, no they are told to do exactly this in scripture, here be reminded..( also they prefer when cleaned to go to filth)



Isaiah 50:10 Who is among you that feareth the Lord, that obeyeth the voice of his servant, that walketh in darkness, and hath no light? let him trust in the name of the Lord, and stay upon his God.
11 Behold, all ye that kindle a fire, that compass yourselves about with sparks: walk in the light of your fire, and in the sparks that ye have kindled. This shall ye have of mine hand; ye shall lie down in sorrow.

Jeremiah 2:13 For my people have committed two evils; they have forsaken me the fountain of living waters, and hewed them out cisterns, broken cisterns, that can hold no water.

Proverbs 26:11 As a dog returneth to his vomit, so a fool returneth to his folly.

2 Peter 2:22 But it is happened unto them according to the true proverb, The dog is turned to his own vomit again; and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire.

 

[gordon777]

But not, I think, mutually-eradicating. I've known many immature believers who have attempted to remain acceptable to God by careful obedience to His commands. They were no more unsaved in doing so than the Galatian believers were who, though guilty of "foolishness," "returning to beggarly elements," and "falling from grace" Paul still described as "brethren," "sons of God," "children of God," and "all one in Christ." (Galatians 3:15, 26-29; 4:6-7)

Although they are said o be children of the most High, they shall die like men. ( proving they are not in Christ/fallen from grace)


Psalm 82:5 They know not, neither will they understand; they walk on in darkness: all the foundations of the earth are out of course.
6 I have said, Ye are gods; and all of you are children of the most High.
7 But ye shall die like men, and fall like one of the princes.

 

[gordon777]

I don't think, as I've explained, that relying on one's law-keeping in justification of oneself before God necessarily means one has stepped out of a born-again condition. As my analogy illustrated, one can possess salvation while not benefiting practically from it. This is all, I believe, what Paul was saying.

If we do as your example, we are told by God ( in His examples) to be evil.


Jeremiah 2:13 For my people have committed two evils; they have forsaken me the fountain of living waters, and hewed them out cisterns, broken cisterns, that can hold no water.