Question on the perspective of God as a result of Calvinist doctrine

[brightfame52]

No.

Romans 3:28 [NASB] For we maintain that a person is justified by faith apart from works of the Law.

Romans 5:1 [NASB] Therefore, having been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ,

Romans 5:9 [NASB] Much more then, having now been justified by His blood, we shall be saved from the wrath [of God] through Him.

Galatians 3:24 [NASB] Therefore the Law has become our guardian [to lead us] to Christ, so that we may be justified by faith.

James 2:24 [NASB] You see that a person is justified by works and not by faith alone.

• We are justified by His blood, but according to GOD, not by Blood Alone.
• We are justified by FAITH, also a gift from God, but not by Faith Alone.
• The sort of FAITH that comes from GOD rather than MAN is not a "dead" (inert) Faith, but an active and obedient Faith that DOES walk in the good works which God prepared in advanced (Ephesians 2:10).

If you will not believe me, then at least consider the words of God before responding with a "Taint So".
(Sola Scriptura means that THEOLOGY never trumps The WORD.)

Thanks for your answer " NO" but you are wrong, the sinner that Christ died for are Justified before God before they believe and while ungodly. So you must believe Justification before God takes place after the sinner believes, which is his act ! Thats works

 

[brightfame52]

jeremiah

The keyword is “that Christ died for.”
THAT person is justified and declared “not guilty!”

Yes it does mean declared not guilty, but it also means to declare righteous.

So do you believe that a sinner Christ died for, is ? not guilty, righteous, in Gods sight, before they believe and while ungodly ? Yes or No. I say Yes, what say you ?

 

[brightfame52]

You have faith. It is something you do, you believe. It is a work. Logically, you believe you are saved by works.
This is your logic. You should know you are NOT saved by works, but your logic has you saved by works but your mind can't see the logic and thinks you are not saved by works. You are confused IMO.

I have faith. It is something I did/do, I believe. It is a work. I am not saved by works because God did the work to cause me to believe.

If you condition your justification before God on anything you do, its works.

Now were you Justified before God by the shed blood of Christ before you believed, even before you were regenerated ? Yes or No

 

[Fastfredy0]

If you condition your justification before God on anything you do, its works.

... and therefore you are a 'salvation by works' guy because you say you must believe to be saved and your believing is something you do (a work) to be saved.

Now were you Justified before God by the shed blood of Christ before you believed, even before you were regenerated ? Yes or No

Depends on perspective. You've been one of God's sheep for entity and therefore justified before you believed in time. From a timeline point of view one is justified by faith so when you did the work of believing you were justified in time.

 

[brightfame52]

... and therefore you are a 'salvation by works' guy because you say you must believe to be saved and your believing is something you do (a work) to be saved.


Depends on perspective. You've been one of God's sheep for entity and therefore justified before you believed in time. From a timeline point of view one is justified by faith so when you did the work of believing you were justified in time.

Now were you Justified before God by the shed blood of Christ before you believed, even before you were regenerated ? Yes or No

 

[Fastfredy0]

Now were you Justified before God by the shed blood of Christ before you believed, even before you were regenerated ? Yes or No

From God's eternal perspective I've always been justified; been one of His sheep. Things get tricky when you ask time based questions by using the term "before" in an question that has an eternal perspective.
We are justified by faith. The efficient cause of my faith is God. The material cause is me. The formal cause is God's decree. The final cause is God's glory. The formal and meritorious cause is Christ. The instrumental cause is faith.

 

[atpollard]

Now were you Justified before God by the shed blood of Christ before you believed, even before you were regenerated ? Yes or No

Verse please?

This 'Berean' wants a verse that says "you were Justified before God by the shed blood of Christ before you believed, even before you were regenerated" ... but I am not pedantic, so I will allow a LOT of slack in the exact wording but little wiggle room in the meaning since you are bullying people over this point as if salvation hung on acceptance of this point of doctrine.

 

[GodsGrace]

From God's eternal perspective I've always been justified; been one of His sheep. Things get tricky when you ask time based questions by using the term "before" in an question that has an eternal perspective.
We are justified by faith. The efficient cause of my faith is God. The material cause is me. The formal cause is God's decree. The final cause is God's glory. The formal and meritorious cause is Christ. The instrumental cause is faith.

Even time becomes confusion in reformed theology.

Actung!

God does not cause confusion.

Unless He decrees it, of course.

 

[Fastfredy0]

God does not cause confusion.

Ridiculous assertion. Perhaps you should read the story of Babel or do you propose that the people of that time all learnt different languages and forget their original language and thus caused their own confusion? Ridiculous ... you read this in a Roman Catholic Catechism. You got to stop following the teachings of the magisterium and go to sola scriptura as your foundation of knowledge of God.

 

[GodsGrace]

Ridiculous assertion. Perhaps you should read the story of Babel or do you propose that the people of that time all learnt different languages and forget their original language and thus caused their own confusion? Ridiculous ... you read this in a Roman Catholic Catechism. You got to stop following the teachings of the magisterium and go to sola scriptura as your foundation of knowledge of God.

You mean God DOES cause confusion?
Another biblical conflict, compliments of the school of Calvinism.

1 Corinthians 14:33
James 3:17

 

[GodsGrace]

Ridiculous assertion. Perhaps you should read the story of Babel or do you propose that the people of that time all learnt different languages and forget their original language and thus caused their own confusion? Ridiculous ... you read this in a Roman Catholic Catechism. You got to stop following the teachings of the magisterium and go to sola scriptura as your foundation of knowledge of God.

You, who read systematic theology, cannot advise others.

 

[Fastfredy0]

You mean God DOES cause confusion?
Another biblical conflict, compliments of the school of Calvinism.

1 Corinthians 14:33
James 3:17

No, it's your school of Catholicism ... for it's your pope that determines and thereby controls scripture leading you and the multitudes astray.

Aside: things were so much more pleasant when you didn't bother me will R.C. concepts

 

[GodsGrace]

No, it's your school of Catholicism ... for it's your pope that determines and thereby controls scripture leading you and the multitudes astray.

Aside: things were so much more pleasant when you didn't bother me will R.C. concepts

I said God Does Not Cause confusion.
I gave you 2 verses.
What's catholic about that?

AND you said this is a ridiculous assertion.
See your post 89.

It's ridiculous to say that God does not cause confusion?

Don't you believe the bible?

 

[GodsGrace]

No, it's your school of Catholicism ... for it's your pope that determines and thereby controls scripture leading you and the multitudes astray.

Aside: things were so much more pleasant when you didn't bother me will R.C. concepts

I haven't said anything mean to you.

 

[brightfame52]

From God's eternal perspective I've always been justified; been one of His sheep. Things get tricky when you ask time based questions by using the term "before" in an question that has an eternal perspective.
We are justified by faith. The efficient cause of my faith is God. The material cause is me. The formal cause is God's decree. The final cause is God's glory. The formal and meritorious cause is Christ. The instrumental cause is faith.

were you Justified before God by the shed blood of Christ before you believed, even before you were regenerated ? Yes or No

 

[GodsGrace]

were you Justified before God by the shed blood of Christ before you believed, even before you were regenerated ? Yes or No

NO!

Ordo Salutis:
Believe
Salvation

Ephesians 2:8

We are saved by grace
Through faith

First faith
Then salvation

 

[brightfame52]

Verse please?

This 'Berean' wants a verse that says "you were Justified before God by the shed blood of Christ before you believed, even before you were regenerated" ... but I am not pedantic, so I will allow a LOT of slack in the exact wording but little wiggle room in the meaning since you are bullying people over this point as if salvation hung on acceptance of this point of doctrine.

Rom 4:25

25 Who was delivered for[because of] our offences, and was raised again for[because of] our justification.

Jesus resurrection is a testification that those for whom offences He was delivered, are Justified

So do you deny the witness of the resurrection that those whom Christ put away their sins are Justified before God ? They dont have to be regenerated or believers to vindicate what Christ accomplished for them ! Of course they will be regenerated and given faith some time in their life, because they were already Justified by Christ.

 

[brightfame52]

NO!

Ordo Salutis:
Believe
Salvation

Ephesians 2:8

We are saved by grace
Through faith

First faith
Then salvation

Okay, then thats works, and it denies the Justifying death of Christ alone.

 

[GodsGrace]

Okay, then thats works, and it denies the Justifying death of Christ alone.

Prove that it's works.
Ephesians 2 states it is Not works.

Paul states we are not saved by works but by faith.

Do you believe scripture?

 

[brightfame52]

Prove that it's works.
Ephesians 2 states it is Not works.

Paul states we are not saved by works but by faith.

Do you believe scripture?

I can't prove anything to people that is God's business. But if you condition salvation on anything you do it's works.