We need to love the murderer, rapist and mobster!

[Christ_empowered]

I dunno

Here lately a bunch of cases hit the news about people allegedly committing serious violent crimes…

While on bond for serious violent crimes. Eek

I do think there’s a subset of the population that just ideally shouldn’t be in society. Humane prisons humane state hospitals…

Don’t be cruel but do keep a certain small percentage of people out of society.

If rehabilitation isn’t a priority why don’t they give everyone life or the death penalty? Seriously the current system makes people worse and they aren’t actively reintegrating people into society. Makes no sense to me…

 

[WIP]

I dunno

Here lately a bunch of cases hit the news about people allegedly committing serious violent crimes…

While on bond for serious violent crimes. Eek

I do think there’s a subset of the population that just ideally shouldn’t be in society. Humane prisons humane state hospitals…

Don’t be cruel but do keep a certain small percentage of people out of society.

If rehabilitation isn’t a priority why don’t they give everyone life or the death penalty? Seriously the current system makes people worse and they aren’t actively reintegrating people into society. Makes no sense to me…

The challenge is in knowing if they are able to be reintegrated. I don't know what it's like in prison. I've never experienced it and I don't know how much effort is put into rehabilitation over punishment. There are two schools of thought with regard to incarceration. One focus is to remove the individual from society in order to protect society and possibly rehabilitate the individual. The other is to inflict punishment. I do not know which of these is preferred by God but my gut instinct leans toward the former as God does say that we are to love our enemies. But that's a hard thing, especially for unbelievers, when the victims want justice or more likely vengeance.

 

[GodsGrace]

I dunno

Here lately a bunch of cases hit the news about people allegedly committing serious violent crimes…

While on bond for serious violent crimes. Eek

I do think there’s a subset of the population that just ideally shouldn’t be in society. Humane prisons humane state hospitals…

Don’t be cruel but do keep a certain small percentage of people out of society.

If rehabilitation isn’t a priority why don’t they give everyone life or the death penalty? Seriously the current system makes people worse and they aren’t actively reintegrating people into society. Makes no sense to me…

I'm very conflicted CE.
Life is OK...but what if an inmate kills a guard?
Then what?
What is to keep them from killing all the guards?

So I tend to be against the death penalty because of mistakes that are made and have been made.
But it also has to exist for some cases.

I agree wholeheartedly with you that some persons should be kept FOREVER out of society.
It's our RIGHT to live a peaceful life without having to worry about being victimized in one way or another.

 

[Christ_empowered]

I dunno

I do remember at Christian residential rehab place I went to…

How manipulative the men who had been in prison could be. I tried to just float above everything get in and get out….

And I largely succeeded. But just hearing about how person a was secretly trading in pills and person b managed to get some young woman pregnant and is off to prison again…

I dunno

Prisons seem to teach criminals to be more dangerous and manipulative. Mental hospitals seem to create mental patients.

I don’t see a lot of rehabilitation or change…???

 

[Whatever]

as God does say that we are to love our enemies.

That is to you as an individual. Should the governments of the world have just loved Hitler?

 

[jasonc]

I'm very conflicted CE.
Life is OK...but what if an inmate kills a guard?
Then what?
What is to keep them from killing all the guards?

So I tend to be against the death penalty because of mistakes that are made and have been made.
But it also has to exist for some cases.

I agree wholeheartedly with you that some persons should be kept FOREVER out of society.
It's our RIGHT to live a peaceful life without having to worry about being victimized in one way or another.

I'm pro death penalty but as one trained In corrections .

per your argument lethal use of force can only be used if the subject is presenting a threat first .if he pass tensed killed a guard and was captured and didn't present deadly force in the aprehension you can't kill him.

 

[Christ_empowered]

I dunno

The death penalty seems to be misused wherever it’s available. In my area a man was executed recently for killing someone as a teenager during a botched robbery. Meanwhile…

An upper class man who killed several family members briefly escaped from the state hospital creating something of a stir. He wasn’t free long. Apparently he was out working as part of his treatment? Anyway…

It’s a hot mess and I don’t see any way to fix it.

I’ve never been to prison but it could easily have happened. Never been to the state hospital but again…could have happened. And so…

I’m torn as well because I remember people from jail and people from the 2 times I was hospitalized and….

Some people really should be in institutions. Some people desperately need help and another chance.

Fallen world ugh

 

[jasonc]

Im pro death penalty because often a rapist ,pedophile ,murderer can't be reformed .it can happen .I personally know one in my church .

 

[GodsGrace]

I'm pro death penalty but as one trained In corrections .

per your argument lethal use of force can only be used if the subject is presenting a threat first .if he pass tensed killed a guard and was captured and didn't present deadly force in the aprehension you can't kill him.

No...You didn't understand my premise.
I'm saying that IF a prisoner kills a guard WHILE IN PRISON...the death sentence might be warranted.
Why?
Because if a life sentence is the ultimate sentence, then what would there be to stop the prisoners from killing the guards? NOTHING. Except, of course, if the ultimate sentence was increased to the death penalty.

 

[jasonc]

No...You didn't understand my premise.
I'm saying that IF a prisoner kills a guard WHILE IN PRISON...the death sentence might be warranted.
Why?
Because if a life sentence is the ultimate sentence, then what would there be to stop the prisoners from killing the guards? NOTHING. Except, of course, if the ultimate sentence was increased to the death penalty.

again ,what is the difference outside ?

or say a felon for drug dealing and not doing life but ten years .he kills a guard . yes it happens .

look up what death that Dahmer got .he was in life .inmates killed him.

Jeffrey Dahmer - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

you don't always have cameras or evidence as well in prison . they do hold trails for them . a rapist here. was excited years after because of some silly things a lawyer used .a flower in a photo ,as evidence he wasn't the guy ,despite evidence other wise that outweighed it .

 

[GodsGrace]

again ,what is the difference outside ?

or say a felon for drug dealing and not doing life but ten years .he kills a guard . yes it happens .

look up what death that Dahmer got .he was in life .inmates killed him.

Jeffrey Dahmer - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

you don't always have cameras or evidence as well in prison . they do hold trails for them . a rapist here. was excited years after because of some silly things a lawyer used .a flower in a photo ,as evidence he wasn't the guy ,despite evidence other wise that outweighed it .

Jason,
I'm saying that I don't like the death sentence.
BUT
In some cases it might be necessary.
My example was for the killing of a guard WHILE IN PRISON.
Something must supersede life imprisonment IN SOME CASES.

 

[jasonc]

Jason,
I'm saying that I don't like the death sentence.
BUT
In some cases it might be necessary.
My example was for the killing of a guard WHILE IN PRISON.
Something must supersede life imprisonment IN SOME CASES.

that again you have that on county jail which often don't exceed a year .

fleeing felon laws .an inmate charge with a crime breaks out and the guards can shoot him

summary execution . lethal force .that's my point .it's not always a murderer doing this ,but other felons .