We need to love the murderer, rapist and mobster!

I dunno 🤷‍♂️

Here lately a bunch of cases hit the news about people allegedly committing serious violent crimes…

While on bond for serious violent crimes. Eek 😬

I do think there’s a subset of the population that just ideally shouldn’t be in society. Humane prisons humane state hospitals…

Don’t be cruel but do keep a certain small percentage of people out of society.

If rehabilitation isn’t a priority why don’t they give everyone life or the death penalty? Seriously 😳 the current system makes people worse and they aren’t actively reintegrating people into society. Makes no sense to me…
 
I dunno 🤷‍♂️

Here lately a bunch of cases hit the news about people allegedly committing serious violent crimes…

While on bond for serious violent crimes. Eek 😬

I do think there’s a subset of the population that just ideally shouldn’t be in society. Humane prisons humane state hospitals…

Don’t be cruel but do keep a certain small percentage of people out of society.

If rehabilitation isn’t a priority why don’t they give everyone life or the death penalty? Seriously 😳 the current system makes people worse and they aren’t actively reintegrating people into society. Makes no sense to me…
The challenge is in knowing if they are able to be reintegrated. I don't know what it's like in prison. I've never experienced it and I don't know how much effort is put into rehabilitation over punishment. There are two schools of thought with regard to incarceration. One focus is to remove the individual from society in order to protect society and possibly rehabilitate the individual. The other is to inflict punishment. I do not know which of these is preferred by God but my gut instinct leans toward the former as God does say that we are to love our enemies. But that's a hard thing, especially for unbelievers, when the victims want justice or more likely vengeance.
 
I dunno 🤷‍♂️

Here lately a bunch of cases hit the news about people allegedly committing serious violent crimes…

While on bond for serious violent crimes. Eek 😬

I do think there’s a subset of the population that just ideally shouldn’t be in society. Humane prisons humane state hospitals…

Don’t be cruel but do keep a certain small percentage of people out of society.

If rehabilitation isn’t a priority why don’t they give everyone life or the death penalty? Seriously 😳 the current system makes people worse and they aren’t actively reintegrating people into society. Makes no sense to me…
I'm very conflicted CE.
Life is OK...but what if an inmate kills a guard?
Then what?
What is to keep them from killing all the guards?

So I tend to be against the death penalty because of mistakes that are made and have been made.
But it also has to exist for some cases.

I agree wholeheartedly with you that some persons should be kept FOREVER out of society.
It's our RIGHT to live a peaceful life without having to worry about being victimized in one way or another.
 
I dunno 🤷‍♂️

I do remember at Christian residential rehab place I went to…

How manipulative the men who had been in prison could be. I tried to just float above everything get in and get out….

And I largely succeeded. But just hearing about how person a was secretly trading in pills and person b managed to get some young woman pregnant and is off to prison again…

I dunno 🤷

Prisons seem to teach criminals to be more dangerous and manipulative. Mental hospitals 🏥 seem to create mental patients.

I don’t see a lot of rehabilitation or change…???
 
I'm very conflicted CE.
Life is OK...but what if an inmate kills a guard?
Then what?
What is to keep them from killing all the guards?

So I tend to be against the death penalty because of mistakes that are made and have been made.
But it also has to exist for some cases.

I agree wholeheartedly with you that some persons should be kept FOREVER out of society.
It's our RIGHT to live a peaceful life without having to worry about being victimized in one way or another.
I'm pro death penalty but as one trained In corrections .

per your argument lethal use of force can only be used if the subject is presenting a threat first .if he pass tensed killed a guard and was captured and didn't present deadly force in the aprehension you can't kill him.
 
I dunno 🤷‍♂️

The death penalty seems to be misused wherever it’s available. In my area a man was executed recently for killing someone as a teenager during a botched robbery. Meanwhile…

An upper class man who killed several family members briefly escaped from the state hospital 🏥 creating something of a stir. He wasn’t free long. Apparently he was out working as part of his treatment? Anyway…

It’s a hot mess and I don’t see any way to fix it.

I’ve never been to prison but it could easily have happened. Never been to the state hospital 🏥 but again…could have happened. And so…

I’m torn as well because I remember people from jail and people from the 2 times I was hospitalized and….

Some people really should be in institutions. Some people desperately need help and another chance.

Fallen world 🌎 ugh 😑
 
Im pro death penalty because often a rapist ,pedophile ,murderer can't be reformed .it can happen .I personally know one in my church .
 
I'm pro death penalty but as one trained In corrections .

per your argument lethal use of force can only be used if the subject is presenting a threat first .if he pass tensed killed a guard and was captured and didn't present deadly force in the aprehension you can't kill him.
No...You didn't understand my premise.
I'm saying that IF a prisoner kills a guard WHILE IN PRISON...the death sentence might be warranted.
Why?
Because if a life sentence is the ultimate sentence, then what would there be to stop the prisoners from killing the guards? NOTHING. Except, of course, if the ultimate sentence was increased to the death penalty.
 
No...You didn't understand my premise.
I'm saying that IF a prisoner kills a guard WHILE IN PRISON...the death sentence might be warranted.
Why?
Because if a life sentence is the ultimate sentence, then what would there be to stop the prisoners from killing the guards? NOTHING. Except, of course, if the ultimate sentence was increased to the death penalty.
again ,what is the difference outside ?

or say a felon for drug dealing and not doing life but ten years .he kills a guard . yes it happens .

look up what death that Dahmer got .he was in life .inmates killed him.



you don't always have cameras or evidence as well in prison . they do hold trails for them . a rapist here. was excited years after because of some silly things a lawyer used .a flower in a photo ,as evidence he wasn't the guy ,despite evidence other wise that outweighed it .
 
again ,what is the difference outside ?

or say a felon for drug dealing and not doing life but ten years .he kills a guard . yes it happens .

look up what death that Dahmer got .he was in life .inmates killed him.



you don't always have cameras or evidence as well in prison . they do hold trails for them . a rapist here. was excited years after because of some silly things a lawyer used .a flower in a photo ,as evidence he wasn't the guy ,despite evidence other wise that outweighed it .
Jason,
I'm saying that I don't like the death sentence.
BUT
In some cases it might be necessary.
My example was for the killing of a guard WHILE IN PRISON.
Something must supersede life imprisonment IN SOME CASES.
 
Jason,
I'm saying that I don't like the death sentence.
BUT
In some cases it might be necessary.
My example was for the killing of a guard WHILE IN PRISON.
Something must supersede life imprisonment IN SOME CASES.
that again you have that on county jail which often don't exceed a year .

fleeing felon laws .an inmate charge with a crime breaks out and the guards can shoot him

summary execution . lethal force .that's my point .it's not always a murderer doing this ,but other felons .
 
we are sinners, too
Some people die in their sins. Some put off the old and put on the new and become born-again believers. Just as the world is going through a transformation. Some cling to the old, some embrace the new.

When it comes to David, I am so amazed. How can a man of blood become so powerful in his understanding of God, even the purpose and meaning of the law of God? David knows the difference between being good and being right. A lot of what Paul writes in Romans explains what we learn from David. When Paul says, "It is written," He is talking about David.
 
I don't like the death sentence.
Life is always the right choice. "I call heaven and earth as witnesses against you today that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing. Therefore choose life, so that you and your descendants may live." (Deuteronomy 30:19) People talk about free will but the Bible talks about the choices we make in life.
 
When we see a murderer, a rapist, or a mobster, our first reaction is to be disgusted by what these people did. It is natural. God created us with conscience, and it seemed that these people have no conscience or they would not be doing what they did. Our knowledge of what good and evil is made us despised these people who seemed delighted in only doing evil and not good. We think they deserve to go to jails and even to go the electric chairs!

What we often forget is that while our own sins may seem small in our eyes, they are large and big in God's eyes. We may think we are good people, but we are sinners, too, in God's eyes, just like the murderer, rapist, mobster we despise.

"If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us." 1 John 1:8 ESV

Before we know God or receive Jesus into our lives, we are just as hopeless as the mobster, rapist or murderer we despise. Yet, God does not think we deserve to go to eternal jail, hell but deserve to be blessed with Him in our eternal home, heaven. God gives us a second chance. Jesus died on the cross and paid the penalty for our sins. God did not give us what we deserve.

So, it is important that we do not look with disdain at the murderer, rapist or mobster but we look at them with compassion, instead. We also ought not to give to them what we think they deserve--jail or electric chair but our compassions.

"Whoever despises his neighbor is a sinner, but blessed is he who is generous to the poor." Proverbs 14:21 ESV

God loves these hopeless scums we despise. God do not want them to perish without knowing Him. If they repent and receive Jesus into their lives, even they can be saved. They can turn from a life of crime and live a righteous and blessed life, just like us.

"Come now, let us reason together, says the Lord:

though your sins are like scarlet,

they shall be as white as snow;

though they are red like crimson,

they shall become like wool." Isaiah 1:18 ESV

Let us care for these rapists, murderers and mobsters like the way God wants us to. Let us look at them not at what they currently are, hopeless scums but see them the way God does--- His beloved sons and daughters, who Jesus came down to die for.

"For the Son of Man came to seek and to save the lost." Luke 19:10 ESV

No sin is too great in God's eyes. Every murderer, rapist and mobster needs to know Jesus. Let us not judge them for their sins, but pray fervently for their salvations, instead. Let us not think we are more righteous than them, but remember that we are sinners like they are, until God saved us.

"Why do you see the speck that is in your brother's eye, but do not notice the log that is in your own eye?" Matthew 7: 3 ESV

We need to look at these prodigal sons and daughters from a different perspective, not as scums that deserve to be judged for their sins but as precious human beings, made in God's image, who deserve to be reconciled with God!
So is a muderer still a muderer if he doesn't murder no more?

But if he still murders He is a murderer correct? So does one need to forgive a person if they do not repent?
 
Life is always the right choice. "I call heaven and earth as witnesses against you today that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing. Therefore choose life, so that you and your descendants may live." (Deuteronomy 30:19) People talk about free will but the Bible talks about the choices we make in life.
Isn't it our free will that allows choices to be made?
Of course the choices we make our important....
they are the direction our life will take...at least the part of it we can control.
Much happens beyond our control...like health issues, for instance.
 
Much happens beyond our control...like health issues, for instance
Actually, there are many health issues that are in our control. We need to exercise and eat the right food. The problem is that, according to chaos theory, this is too difficult for us to figure out. So we need to trust in God to figure it out for us and guide us in the way we go in life. We all know that people who try to do what is right in their own eyes are doomed to failure because it is beyond our ability to understand apart from God. Tks for your response to my post.
 
So does one need to forgive a person if they do not repent?
We forgive for our sake, not their sake. Just as it is for their advantage to repent and does nothing for us. Courts may consider repentance when evaluating whether an individual is likely to reoffend or whether they deserve leniency. When someone forgives, it’s often for their own peace, letting go of resentment rather than necessarily excusing the action. Repentance, on the other hand, is about the person taking accountability and changing their ways, which can lead to reconciliation but doesn’t always guarantee it.
 
We forgive for our sake, not their sake. Just as it is for their advantage to repent and does nothing for us. Courts may consider repentance when evaluating whether an individual is likely to reoffend or whether they deserve leniency. When someone forgives, it’s often for their own peace, letting go of resentment rather than necessarily excusing the action. Repentance, on the other hand, is about the person taking accountability and changing their ways, which can lead to reconciliation but doesn’t always guarantee it.
I don't know about all that. If a person doesn't repent why would you excuse their behavior.

How can you let go of something that is readily being done.
 
If a person doesn't repent why would you excuse their behavior.
The Parable of the Unforgiving Servant (Matthew 18:21-35) – Jesus tells a parable about a servant who was forgiven a great debt but refused to forgive a smaller debt owed to him. His lack of mercy led to severe consequences, illustrating how God expects us to extend forgiveness as He does.

How can you let go of something that is readily being done.
I can not; it has to be God's work in me. God’s grace is not just about forgiveness—it actively works in our hearts to bring transformation. His kindness and mercy draw us toward repentance, leading us to a renewed life in Him.
 
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