Bible Study Could the narrative of Genesis be interpreted as reflecting humanity’s historical shift from hunter-gatherer societies to that of herding and farming?

[LanaPodesta]

The early chapters of Genesis are richly layered and open to multiple levels of interpretation: theological, moral, spiritual, and even anthropological. One intriguing possibility is that the story of Cain and Abel (Genesis 4) reflects a deep memory of a fundamental societal shift in early human history—the transition from nomadic hunter-gatherers to settled agricultural and pastoral societies.


Abel, a "keeper of sheep," represents the pastoral life, while Cain, a "tiller of the ground," symbolizes settled agriculture. This distinction has caught the attention of not only theologians but also scholars and writers from outside the Church. For example, Isaac Asimov, though not a Christian and writing from a secular perspective, suggested in his Guide to the Bible that the Cain and Abel story may reflect the tensions that arose as agricultural societies began to dominate the older, more mobile ways of life.


This line of thought raises fascinating questions: Was the offering of Abel "more acceptable" not only because of his disposition, but also because the pastoral life was less associated with the desire for control over the land—a control which, in Genesis, often seems connected with the consequences of the Fall? Might the violence between the brothers symbolically represent the internal and societal ruptures that emerged during this pivotal transformation in human civilization?

 

[Hidden In Him]

The early chapters of Genesis are richly layered and open to multiple levels of interpretation: theological, moral, spiritual, and even anthropological. One intriguing possibility is that the story of Cain and Abel (Genesis 4) reflects a deep memory of a fundamental societal shift in early human history—the transition from nomadic hunter-gatherers to settled agricultural and pastoral societies.


Abel, a "keeper of sheep," represents the pastoral life, while Cain, a "tiller of the ground," symbolizes settled agriculture. This distinction has caught the attention of not only theologians but also scholars and writers from outside the Church. For example, Isaac Asimov, though not a Christian and writing from a secular perspective, suggested in his Guide to the Bible that the Cain and Abel story may reflect the tensions that arose as agricultural societies began to dominate the older, more mobile ways of life.


This line of thought raises fascinating questions: Was the offering of Abel "more acceptable" not only because of his disposition, but also because the pastoral life was less associated with the desire for control over the land—a control which, in Genesis, often seems connected with the consequences of the Fall? Might the violence between the brothers symbolically represent the internal and societal ruptures that emerged during this pivotal transformation in human civilization?

Nah, not in my book, Lana. To me the above kinds of explanations represent attempts to reconcile (or maybe compromise is the better word) the scriptural account with things taught by secular academia. I attended upper level courses in Paleontology in college and I know there's actually not a lot of reason for having to do that. But for the young it can seem like there's a need to.

I believe the earth was created in 6 days about 6,000 years ago, cuz that's all the actual human history we have. The rest is just fantasy.
- H

 

[LanaPodesta]

I believe the earth was created in 6 days about 6,000 years ago

Six literal days?

 

[jasonc]

Nah, not in my book, Lana. To me the above kinds of explanations represent attempts to reconcile (or maybe compromise is the better word) the scriptural account with things taught by secular academia. I attended upper level courses in Paleontology in college and I know there's actually not a lot of reason for having to do that. But for the young it can seem like there's a need to.

I believe the earth was created in 6 days about 6,000 years ago, cuz that's all the actual human history we have. The rest is just fantasy.
- H

I wouldn't assume the ancient societies were all that primitive. some had running water ,plumbing and rudimentary modern machines to build with .

surveying and navigation wasnt so primitive . eric Leif landed in Nova Scotia around 1000 ad.

 

[LanaPodesta]

eric Leif landed in Nova Scotia around 1000 ad.

that's 5000 years after the first cities tho

 

[jasonc]

that's 5000 years after the first cities tho

yes but the point is they did have navigation and how is it that the Mayan calendar without a computer is a better one and not based on the sun or moon ?

a distant star and using pre computer observatory .

that's my point. God didn't create a proto man ,he made man and called it good .using your idea death is what God wanted and sickness

 

[RandyK]

The early chapters of Genesis are richly layered and open to multiple levels of interpretation: theological, moral, spiritual, and even anthropological. One intriguing possibility is that the story of Cain and Abel (Genesis 4) reflects a deep memory of a fundamental societal shift in early human history—the transition from nomadic hunter-gatherers to settled agricultural and pastoral societies.


Abel, a "keeper of sheep," represents the pastoral life, while Cain, a "tiller of the ground," symbolizes settled agriculture. This distinction has caught the attention of not only theologians but also scholars and writers from outside the Church. For example, Isaac Asimov, though not a Christian and writing from a secular perspective, suggested in his Guide to the Bible that the Cain and Abel story may reflect the tensions that arose as agricultural societies began to dominate the older, more mobile ways of life.


This line of thought raises fascinating questions: Was the offering of Abel "more acceptable" not only because of his disposition, but also because the pastoral life was less associated with the desire for control over the land—a control which, in Genesis, often seems connected with the consequences of the Fall? Might the violence between the brothers symbolically represent the internal and societal ruptures that emerged during this pivotal transformation in human civilization?

Fair question because obviously the details of the Cain and Abel story were what transpired and what is recorded for all time. But I can't say that one form of subsistence is better than another inherently. It seems more a matter of personal gift or personal interest. Both herding and agriculture were practiced under the Law with the full sanction and pleasure of God.

We're aware of the problem one herdsman can have with another herdsman in the story of Abraham and Lot. There was an increased need for space with that kind of farming to feed and water the animals.

And we know the tension that existed between native Americans and English colonists in America. The Indian tribes often wanted to roam in hunting, while the colonists wanted to settle down with specific property rights.

But the biblical story doesn't seem to be anticipating this. Rather, the story concerns what pleased God about these offerings. And I don't think they were concerned with the type of gifts they were, animal or vegetable. Rather, it appears that there was something in the heart of Cain that was not in the heart of Abel.

So, it reallyl has to do with the attitude one brings when he or she brings his offering to God. It it just perfunctory obedience, done to pacify God's need for a gift, or is it an offering of love and thankfulness?

We really aren't told much, but it seems that the fact each is described in different farming activities may be significant regardless. It may be, for example, that agriculture, though perfectly fine, may be more conducive to ritual, repetition, and emotional disconnect? One could give a wheelbarrow full of carrots, and still have an enormous supply for one's self on a large farm.

The same could not be said for the herdsman, who loses in his offering possibly a multiplied offspring, as well as personal association with the life of an animal. It's certainly something I like to think about. The difference in farming types may indicate a difference in personal attachment?

 

[LanaPodesta]

yes but the point is they did have navigation and how is it that the Mayan calendar without a computer is a better one and not based on the sun or moon ?

Yes...I'm not disagreeing with you so not sure what your point is?

using your idea death is what God wanted and sickness

Huh?

 

[LanaPodesta]

It it just perfunctory obedience, done to pacify God's need for a gift, or is it an offering of love and thankfulness?

That's not how the Jews would have viewed God.

 

[miamited]

Hi LanaPodesta
No.

 

[LanaPodesta]

Hi LanaPodesta
No.

why not

 

[miamited]

why not

Because both God and Jesus refer to Adam as the first man. So there wasn't any man that was a hunter gatherer before God created Adam. And according to God's plain testimony, there wasn't anything that existed five days before Adam was created. So, according to God's testimony, there were no animals to be hunted or crops to be gathered.

God's testimony is that He created the earth. Then, in a span of six days, He created all the animals according to their kinds. So what animals do you think existed before God says that He created them?

 

[LanaPodesta]

So there wasn't any man that was a hunter gatherer before God created Adam

I never said that, and that is if we presume 'Adam' was a singular man, and not representative of mankind

 

[RandyK]

That's not how the Jews would have viewed God.

Moses was not a Jew. What makes you think Jews would think any differently than any other people on earth, given that situation?

In my experience, people are different, some choosing to operate by faith and others not, wanting to do things apart from Divine revelation. Those who live by faith naturally recognize who God is, His love, and what He deserves. Those who live independent of Him suspect God may not be all that He claims to be.

Those who "doubt" God may just offer a perfunctory performance, to "pass the grade." All people without faith feel this way in one way or another. They want acceptance as a "good person" without having to go God's way, ie exercise faith.

That's how I see it. If you see things differently, please explain?

 

[miamited]

I never said that, and that is if we presume 'Adam' was a singular man, and not representative of mankind

You never said what? And yes, Jesus referred to Adam as the 'first man'. God referred to Jesus as a single man for whom He made a single woman to be his helpmate. To get an understanding that Adam refers to some body of humanity that existed in the beginning would deny all that God has said about making a wife, whom Adam called Eve, Would deny that Adam was speaking the truth when he said that Eve was the mother of all mankind. If there were a lot of people that existed before Eve, then she wouldn't have been the mother of all mankind.

So yes, I reject any understanding that says that God's references to Adam and Eve could somehow be stretched to encompass an entire body of people living in Adam's first days. God created this realm in which we live. In His law He tells us that in six days He made everything that exists on the earth and in the heavens and in the seas. Mankind stands right front and center of that creation event. But mankind began as one man and one woman who had children and slowly populated the whole of the earth.

And while you may not have written anything about what you claim you never said in your first post, the title of your thread says that this is some transition from man, as a hunter gatherer, to man as a herdsman and farmer.

I believe that God has the power and wisdom to merely fling billions of stars and other heavenly bodies across the universe in a mere moment. And I believe that He wrote us the truth as to how long it took Him to create all that exists as He has also told us in His law. And yes, that takes a great amount of faith, especially with all the scientific minds telling us that it isn't so. But keep in mind that not a one of those scientists were there. Either millions and billions of years ago as they proclaim the age of the creation, or during the six days that God says He created all that exists in the heavens and the earth and the seas.

 

[LanaPodesta]

Either millions and billions of years ago as they proclaim the age of the creation, or during the six days that God says He created all that exists in the heavens and the earth and the seas.

You think it was six literal days?

 

[miamited]

You think it was six literal days?

Oh, absolutely! I think we've had this discussion before. I believe that God's word is true and He didn't write it that we couldn't understand it. God created us! He knows how to talk to us in a way in which we can understand. He wants us to know and understand that the very fact that we live is a created blessing from Him.

God has created a realm of existence. And from all indications He also created a realm of existence for the angels. God is a God of all power, wisdom, knowledge, love and design. He, according to His testimony, built this universe solely for the purpose of being a place where mankind could live. He tilted the earth perfectly that we have seasons. He created, also according to His own testimony, the stars that we might know seasons and times. We know when a year is because He established that in the span of what we know as approximately 365 passing of days, the earth orbits the sun and we count a year for that. So, consider that before the sun was created there were no years to pass upon the earth and there was no sunlight. So, there couldn't have been millions of years before the sun was created. The orbit around the sun is what makes a year.

I think it very important that we understand that it couldn't have been billions or millions of years between God's creating the plants and then creating the sun. Plants can live a day without sunlight, but they can't live months or years. Sunlight is what drives the photosynthesis by which plants make their food. Without the sun, plants can't produce their food and will die fairly quickly. But they can last a day with no problem. So, according to God's testimony, He created the plants and then the next day He created the sun. That will only work if the days are pretty much what they are now, in length. You cannot put even 100 years between the creation of the plants and the creation of the sun.

Further, I think it worth considering that by the time God gave unto Moses the law in which God said that He created everything in six days, that everyone knew what the length of six days was. Sure, we can all say well Adam and Eve had no idea what happened before their creation and may not have understood six days to be six rotations of the earth, but by the time the law was given, some 2,500 years later, people knew what a day was. God knew that people knew what a day was. So, consider that He wrote to a people some 2500 years after He created all that is, that He confirmed for the Israelites in the law that it took Him six days to build this realm in which He then created man. And that was God's purpose in creating. To make a place where man could live. The idea, to me, that the universe existed billions of years before man is, quite frankly, ludicrous to me. Why?

Now, I fully understand that modern scientific thinking denies that possibility. But God's testimony to us is the truth and at least 3 times in His testimony to us He has told us that He created this realm of existence in 6 days. He merely commanded the earth to exist, and the simple reading of the text would give us to understand that when He commanded the earth to exist, it was the only heavenly body in the entire universe. The earth stood alone as the sole created thing that God made and it was covered with water when God spoke the earth into existence. The earth made one rotation upon its axis and God called that the first evening and morning just as we have evenings and morning in every day today. There has never been a day, since the creation of this realm, that the earth has not had days made of an evening and a morning.

But we must know that evening and morning are the same as we now say am and pm. A.m. and p.m. have nothing to do with the sun and the moon. It becomes am when the sun isn't even in the sky and it becomes p.m. when the sun is at its fullest overhead. So, just as a.m and p.m have nothing to do with the sun or moon, so does the explanation of a day consisting of an evening and a morning have anything to do with the existence of the sun. They are both merely two halves of the day. God divided each day into two equal parts that He called evening and morning, and we still do the same thing, but have changed the designations to a.m. and p.m.

So yes, I'm absolutely sure that God created this realm in which I now live in 6 days, and He did it that I might have a place to live. On the sixth day God said, "Let us make man in our image." Now, I understand that to be that God, Jesus and the Holy Spirit were all a part of that. We were physically made in the image of Jesus. As he was a man, so are we. But He also made us with an eternal spirit just as He has. According to the Scriptures, we all have eternal life, but the question is where we will spend that eternity after this life is over. I mean the Scriptures seem to say that while those who have trusted in Jesus will live eternally with God, it also says that those without Jesus will live eternally in a place that Jesus referred to as a place of weeping and gnashing of teeth.

So, we are each one made in God's image, and the image of His Son and the image of His Spirit. The actual verse of the Scriptures says, "Let us make man in OUR image." Not, "Let us make man in 'my' image." But yeah, He created this realm of existence in six days and one day we're all going to see Him do it again. In that day we will all then be assured that God can create entire universe size creations in a mere matter of moments.

 

[LanaPodesta]

Oh, absolutely! I think we've had this discussion before. I believe that God's word is true and He didn't write it that we couldn't understand it. God created us! He knows how to talk to us in a way in which we can understand. He wants us to know and understand that the very fact that we live is a created blessing from Him.

God has created a realm of existence. And from all indications He also created a realm of existence for the angels. God is a God of all power, wisdom, knowledge, love and design. He, according to His testimony, built this universe solely for the purpose of being a place where mankind could live. He tilted the earth perfectly that we have seasons. He created, also according to His own testimony, the stars that we might know seasons and times. We know when a year is because He established that in the span of what we know as approximately 365 passing of days, the earth orbits the sun and we count a year for that. So, consider that before the sun was created there were no years to pass upon the earth and there was no sunlight. So, there couldn't have been millions of years before the sun was created. The orbit around the sun is what makes a year.

I think it very important that we understand that it couldn't have been billions or millions of years between God's creating the plants and then creating the sun. Plants can live a day without sunlight, but they can't live months or years. Sunlight is what drives the photosynthesis by which plants make their food. Without the sun, plants can't produce their food and will die fairly quickly. But they can last a day with no problem. So, according to God's testimony, He created the plants and then the next day He created the sun. That will only work if the days are pretty much what they are now, in length. You cannot put even 100 years between the creation of the plants and the creation of the sun.

Further, I think it worth considering that by the time God gave unto Moses the law in which God said that He created everything in six days, that everyone knew what the length of six days was. Sure, we can all say well Adam and Eve had no idea what happened before their creation and may not have understood six days to be six rotations of the earth, but by the time the law was given, some 2,500 years later, people knew what a day was. God knew that people knew what a day was. So, consider that He wrote to a people some 2500 years after He created all that is, that He confirmed for the Israelites in the law that it took Him six days to build this realm in which He then created man. And that was God's purpose in creating. To make a place where man could live. The idea, to me, that the universe existed billions of years before man is, quite frankly, ludicrous to me. Why?

Now, I fully understand that modern scientific thinking denies that possibility. But God's testimony to us is the truth and at least 3 times in His testimony to us He has told us that He created this realm of existence in 6 days. He merely commanded the earth to exist, and the simple reading of the text would give us to understand that when He commanded the earth to exist, it was the only heavenly body in the entire universe. The earth stood alone as the sole created thing that God made and it was covered with water when God spoke the earth into existence. The earth made one rotation upon its axis and God called that the first evening and morning just as we have evenings and morning in every day today. There has never been a day, since the creation of this realm, that the earth has not had days made of an evening and a morning.

But we must know that evening and morning are the same as we now say am and pm. A.m. and p.m. have nothing to do with the sun and the moon. It becomes am when the sun isn't even in the sky and it becomes p.m. when the sun is at its fullest overhead. So, just as a.m and p.m have nothing to do with the sun or moon, so does the explanation of a day consisting of an evening and a morning have anything to do with the existence of the sun. They are both merely two halves of the day. God divided each day into two equal parts that He called evening and morning, and we still do the same thing, but have changed the designations to a.m. and p.m.

So yes, I'm absolutely sure that God created this realm in which I now live in 6 days, and He did it that I might have a place to live. On the sixth day God said, "Let us make man in our image." Now, I understand that to be that God, Jesus and the Holy Spirit were all a part of that. We were physically made in the image of Jesus. As he was a man, so are we. But He also made us with an eternal spirit just as He has. According to the Scriptures, we all have eternal life, but the question is where we will spend that eternity after this life is over. I mean the Scriptures seem to say that while those who have trusted in Jesus will live eternally with God, it also says that those without Jesus will live eternally in a place that Jesus referred to as a place of weeping and gnashing of teeth.

So, we are each one made in God's image, and the image of His Son and the image of His Spirit. The actual verse of the Scriptures says, "Let us make man in OUR image." Not, "Let us make man in 'my' image." But yeah, He created this realm of existence in six days and one day we're all going to see Him do it again. In that day we will all then be assured that God can create entire universe size creations in a mere matter of moments.

24 hours? Do you understand how hours are calculated?

 

[follower]

You think it was six literal days?

God Says That Clearly.
Simple.

Evil mankind came up with many many many bad ideas and try to get everyone else to believe them and to head for the pit of destruction all together no matter where they are, no matter how far away they are.

 

[follower]

The early chapters of Genesis are richly layered and open to multiple levels of interpretation: theological, moral, spiritual, and even anthropological.

The Author of All Life, the Creator of All Everything Everywhere, Says no! Not open to any <private> interpretation.
Rather, Directly and Perfectly Revealed by the Creator (to little children) as He Planned and as He Pleased;
and hidden.... H I D D E N ! ....... from the scholars ! (educated ones).

Little children learn from the Creator the Truth about all things.
The education system of sinful men teaches bad things, other things, that are wrong.