Case study of being justified by the law: Water baptism that saves.

[Bruce Leiter]

donadams, you write, "The Sacraments are NOT about man’s work. They are the work of Christ and the Holy Spirit. They are how Christ dispenses grace to us and how we obtain union with God.

"The seven sacraments are the signs and instruments by which the Holy Spirit spreads the grace of Christ the head throughout the Church which is his Body."

Protestants generally recognize two sacraments, which they see as largely-figurative actions pointing to spiritual actions by God operating in believers' lives, not in the sacraments.

On what Scriptures do you base your assumptions that there are seven that dispense grace to believers?

Also, do you believe that the Catholic church is the only true church?

I say that any church that bases its doctrines squarely on the Bible alone is the true church. How do you respond?

 

[donadams]

donadams, you write, "The Sacraments are NOT about man’s work. They are the work of Christ and the Holy Spirit. They are how Christ dispenses grace to us and how we obtain union with God.

"The seven sacraments are the signs and instruments by which the Holy Spirit spreads the grace of Christ the head throughout the Church which is his Body."

Protestants generally recognize two sacraments, which they see as largely-figurative actions pointing to spiritual actions by God operating in believers' lives, not in the sacraments.

On what Scriptures do you base your assumptions that there are seven that dispense grace to believers?

Also, do you believe that the Catholic church is the only true church?

I say that any church that bases its doctrines squarely on the Bible alone is the true church. How do you respond?

there is only one Christ and He only founded one church!

mt 16:18-19 Jn 10:16

mystical unity church acts 9:4 eph 5:32

sacraments

a mystery or sign or oath is a sacrament

Promise of God:
Sacred oath:
A promise or sacred oath made by God is called a sacrament:
A sacrament is also the fruit of a sacrifice, grace or the merits of Christ are fruit of His sacrifice on the cross!

Heb 8:8 better sacraments
Lk 1:72
Acts 2:39 referring to ez 36:25-27
Acts 1:4
Acts 2:33
Acts 13:23
Acts 13:32
Acts 26:6
Acts 26:7
Rom 1:2
2 Tim 1:1-2
2 pet 1:4
1 Jn 2:25 and many more!

Jn 10:10 life, (grace more abundantly)
Jn 1: 16 And of his fulness have all we received, and grace for grace.

Jn 1:16-17 For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ.
Sacramental life of the Christian church: I come that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly. Jn 10:10 Jn 1:16-17

Baptism: (initiation into the covenant)
Mk 16:16 Jn 3:5 acts 2:38-39 8:36
1 Corinthians 12:13 2 pet 1:11
For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

The Eucharist: (holy communion)
Mt 26:26-39 Jn 6:51-58 1 Cor 11:23-25

Confession of sins:
Jn 20:23 / 1 Jn 1:9 / 2 cor 5:18

Confirmation
Lk 22:32 acts 8:14-17
acts 14:22

Marriage:
Matt 19:4-6

Holy orders: (priesthood)
Jesus Christ continues HIS ministry in His new covenant church thru His priesthood in Peter, the apostles, and their successors with the same mission, power, and authority!
Mt 10:1-8 Mt 16:18 Mt 28:19 Lk 10:16 Jn 8:32 Jn 13:20 Jn 15:5 Jn 16:13
Jn 20:21-22 acts 1:17 acts 6:4 acts 8:26
2 Cor 5:18 1 Tim 4:14 Eph 2:20

Extreme unction: (anointing with oil)
1 Tim 4:14 James 5:14

The ark of salvation: one, holy, catholic, (universal) and apostolic church founded by Jesus Christ on Peter and the apostles! 1 pet 3:20-21

thks

 

[Bruce Leiter]

there is only one Christ and He only founded one church!

mt 16:18-19 Jn 10:16

mystical unity church acts 9:4 eph 5:32

sacraments

a mystery or sign or oath is a sacrament

Promise of God:
Sacred oath:
A promise or sacred oath made by God is called a sacrament:
A sacrament is also the fruit of a sacrifice, grace or the merits of Christ are fruit of His sacrifice on the cross!

Heb 8:8 better sacraments
Lk 1:72
Acts 2:39 referring to ez 36:25-27
Acts 1:4
Acts 2:33
Acts 13:23
Acts 13:32
Acts 26:6
Acts 26:7
Rom 1:2
2 Tim 1:1-2
2 pet 1:4
1 Jn 2:25 and many more!

Jn 10:10 life, (grace more abundantly)
Jn 1: 16 And of his fulness have all we received, and grace for grace.

Jn 1:16-17 For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ.
Sacramental life of the Christian church: I come that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly. Jn 10:10 Jn 1:16-17

Baptism: (initiation into the covenant)
Mk 16:16 Jn 3:5 acts 2:38-39 8:36
1 Corinthians 12:13 2 pet 1:11
For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

The Eucharist: (holy communion)
Mt 26:26-39 Jn 6:51-58 1 Cor 11:23-25

Confession of sins:
Jn 20:23 / 1 Jn 1:9 / 2 cor 5:18

Confirmation
Lk 22:32 acts 8:14-17
acts 14:22

Marriage:
Matt 19:4-6

Holy orders: (priesthood)
Jesus Christ continues HIS ministry in His new covenant church thru His priesthood in Peter, the apostles, and their successors with the same mission, power, and authority!
Mt 10:1-8 Mt 16:18 Mt 28:19 Lk 10:16 Jn 8:32 Jn 13:20 Jn 15:5 Jn 16:13
Jn 20:21-22 acts 1:17 acts 6:4 acts 8:26
2 Cor 5:18 1 Tim 4:14 Eph 2:20

Extreme unction: (anointing with oil)
1 Tim 4:14 James 5:14

The ark of salvation: one, holy, catholic, (universal) and apostolic church founded by Jesus Christ on Peter and the apostles! 1 pet 3:20-21

thks

donadams, I agree with you that we worship one Christ, who founded one church, but that church is not one organization. It is the collection of true believers who may be in different organizations all over the world but are spiritually one body with Jesus as their Head. I don't know why the Catholic church claims that the unified church of Jesus Christ has to be their visible organization, whereas the Bible shows that it is the spiritual body of Christ:

1Co_12:27 Now you are the body of Christ and individually members of it.
Eph 4:11 And he gave the apostles, the prophets, the evangelists, the shepherds and teachers,
Eph 4:12 to equip the saints for the work of ministry, for building up the body of Christ,
Eph 4:13 until we all attain to the unity of the faith and of the knowledge of the Son of God, to mature manhood, to the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ,
Eph 4:14 so that we may no longer be children, tossed to and fro by the waves and carried about by every wind of doctrine, by human cunning, by craftiness in deceitful schemes.

 

[donadams]

donadams, I agree with you that we worship one Christ, who founded one church, but that church is not one organization. It is the collection of true believers who may be in different organizations all over the world but are spiritually one body with Jesus as their Head. I don't know why the Catholic church claims that the unified church of Jesus Christ has to be their visible organization, whereas the Bible shows that it is the spiritual body of Christ:

1Co_12:27 Now you are the body of Christ and individually members of it.
Eph 4:11 And he gave the apostles, the prophets, the evangelists, the shepherds and teachers,
Eph 4:12 to equip the saints for the work of ministry, for building up the body of Christ,
Eph 4:13 until we all attain to the unity of the faith and of the knowledge of the Son of God, to mature manhood, to the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ,
Eph 4:14 so that we may no longer be children, tossed to and fro by the waves and carried about by every wind of doctrine, by human cunning, by craftiness in deceitful schemes.

cos unity of faith and baptism are required

 

[Bruce Leiter]

cos unity of faith and baptism are required

Well, donadams, you Catholics and many Protestant churches share the basic doctrines, and many Christians of all groups have been baptized by the Holy Spirit when we were given the new birth. Therefore, we all share in being the body of Christ.

 

[donadams]

Well, donadams, you Catholics and many Protestant churches share the basic doctrines, and many Christians of all groups have been baptized by the Holy Spirit when we were given the new birth. Therefore, we all share in being the body of Christ.

who accomplished this "Holy Spirit new birth"?

 

[Bruce Leiter]

who accomplished this "Holy Spirit new birth"?

Who accomplished it? Of course, the Triune God does in every true believer enabling them to give their lives to him, as Jesus says in John 3:

Joh 3:3 Jesus answered him, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the kingdom of God.”
Joh 3:4 Nicodemus said to him, “How can a man be born when he is old? Can he enter a second time into his mother's womb and be born?”
Joh 3:5 Jesus answered, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God.
Joh 3:6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
Joh 3:7 Do not marvel that I said to you, ‘You must be born again.’
Joh 3:8 The wind blows where it wishes, and you hear its sound, but you do not know where it comes from or where it goes. So it is with everyone who is born of the Spirit.”

 

[donadams]

Who accomplished it? Of course, the Triune God does in every true believer enabling them to give their lives to him, as Jesus says in John 3:

Joh 3:3 Jesus answered him, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the kingdom of God.”
Joh 3:4 Nicodemus said to him, “How can a man be born when he is old? Can he enter a second time into his mother's womb and be born?”
Joh 3:5 Jesus answered, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God.
Joh 3:6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
Joh 3:7 Do not marvel that I said to you, ‘You must be born again.’
Joh 3:8 The wind blows where it wishes, and you hear its sound, but you do not know where it comes from or where it goes. So it is with everyone who is born of the Spirit.”

Jesus says its ADMINISTERED by his apostolic church! mt 28:19
2 cor 8:19
2 pet 2:11
For so an entrance shall be ministered unto you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.

 

[Bruce Leiter]

Jesus says its ADMINISTERED by his apostolic church! mt 28:19
2 cor 8:19
2 pet 2:11
For so an entrance shall be ministered unto you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.

You're right, donadams, but you can't limit the "apostolic" church to Catholics. Any church that follows the Great Commission and believes in the Triune God is part of the true church, because they believe in and follow the teachings of the Bible.