Losing ones salvation

[Free]

Ok, sorry.

No need to apologize. I'm just meaning that it is a very serious claim to say that the Bibles are so completely different that a Protestant Bible will lead to sin and the Orthodox one will not. Such serious claims should have evidence to support them.

I can all but guarantee that, apart from the deuterocanonical books in the Orthodox Bible, the Bibles say pretty much the very same things. That is, one is not more likely than the other to lead into sin.

 

[Groovy]

The Bible is generally the same in most countries. Ethiopia has an extra book added, the book of Enoch, but generally speaking the Bible is the same in most places around the world.

What changes is the interpretation of the Bible and translations which are custom-fit to accommodate the culture and traditions of a particular country.

Howdy Eli, because OB was reluctant to do so, I wonder whether you would like to compare where Orthodoxy differs from the 5-point orthodox creed that I shared, which follows:

The normative way of stating the kerygma/GRFS in the NT is “Accept Christ Jesus as Lord” (as in 2Cor. 4:5 & Col. 2:6). The main points of Christian orthodoxy implicit in this statement can be explained or elaborated as follows:

1. There is a/one all-loving and just Lord or God (Deut. 6:4, John 3:16, 2Thes. 1:6), who is both able (2Tim. 1:12) and willing (1Tim. 2:3-4, Ezek. 33:11) to provide all morally accountable human beings salvation or heaven—a wonderful life full of love, joy and peace forever.
2. Human beings are selfish or sinful (Rom. 3:23, 2Tim. 3:2-4, Col. 3:5), miserable (Gal. 5:19-21), and hopeless (Eph. 2:12) or hell-bound at the judgment (Matt. 23:33 & 25:46) when they reject God’s salvation (John 3:18, Rom. 2:5-11).
3. Jesus is God’s Messiah/Christ and incarnate Son, the way that God has chosen (John 3:16, Acts 16:30-31, Phil. 2:9-11) of providing salvation by means of his atoning death on the cross for the payment of the penalty for the sins of humanity (Rom. 3:22-25 & 5:9-11), followed by his resurrection to reign in heaven (1Cor. 15:14-28).
4. Thus, every person who hears the NT Gospel needs to repent and accept God’s grace or justification in Jesus as Christ/Messiah the Lord or Supreme Commander (Luke 2:11, John 14:6, Acts 16:31), which means trying to obey His commandment to love one another (Matt. 22:37-40, John 13:35, Rom. 13:9)—forever (Matt. 10:22, Psa. 113:2).
5. Then God’s Holy Spirit will establish a saving relationship with those who freely accept/love Him (Rev. 3:20) that will eventually achieve heaven after Christ returns when by means of persevering in learning Truth/God’s Word/sanctification everyone cooperates fully with His will (John 14:6, 17&26, Rom. 8:6-17, Gal. 6:7-9, Eph. 1:13-14, Heb. 10:36, 12:1, Jam. 1:2-4).

 

[Groovy]

Yes, of course, the teachings of Paul are part of the Bible.

Glad y'all believe that, because the creed I shared again with Eli in #82 includes several teachings of Paul.

 

[Eli1+]

Howdy Eli, because OB was reluctant to do so, I wonder whether you would like to compare where Orthodoxy differs from the 5-point orthodox creed that I shared, which follows:

The normative way of stating the kerygma/GRFS in the NT is “Accept Christ Jesus as Lord” (as in 2Cor. 4:5 & Col. 2:6). The main points of Christian orthodoxy implicit in this statement can be explained or elaborated as follows:

1. There is a/one all-loving and just Lord or God (Deut. 6:4, John 3:16, 2Thes. 1:6), who is both able (2Tim. 1:12) and willing (1Tim. 2:3-4, Ezek. 33:11) to provide all morally accountable human beings salvation or heaven—a wonderful life full of love, joy and peace forever.
2. Human beings are selfish or sinful (Rom. 3:23, 2Tim. 3:2-4, Col. 3:5), miserable (Gal. 5:19-21), and hopeless (Eph. 2:12) or hell-bound at the judgment (Matt. 23:33 & 25:46) when they reject God’s salvation (John 3:18, Rom. 2:5-11).
3. Jesus is God’s Messiah/Christ and incarnate Son, the way that God has chosen (John 3:16, Acts 16:30-31, Phil. 2:9-11) of providing salvation by means of his atoning death on the cross for the payment of the penalty for the sins of humanity (Rom. 3:22-25 & 5:9-11), followed by his resurrection to reign in heaven (1Cor. 15:14-28).
4. Thus, every person who hears the NT Gospel needs to repent and accept God’s grace or justification in Jesus as Christ/Messiah the Lord or Supreme Commander (Luke 2:11, John 14:6, Acts 16:31), which means trying to obey His commandment to love one another (Matt. 22:37-40, John 13:35, Rom. 13:9)—forever (Matt. 10:22, Psa. 113:2).
5. Then God’s Holy Spirit will establish a saving relationship with those who freely accept/love Him (Rev. 3:20) that will eventually achieve heaven after Christ returns when by means of persevering in learning Truth/God’s Word/sanctification everyone cooperates fully with His will (John 14:6, 17&26, Rom. 8:6-17, Gal. 6:7-9, Eph. 1:13-14, Heb. 10:36, 12:1, Jam. 1:2-4).

I would say generally that is an acceptable message Sailor except on point 5 where YOU as a mortal human pretends to know the Mind of God where people are ultimately going (Hell or Heaven).
This is the main different between Orthodoxy and Protestants.
You emphasize your relationship and love you have for God as a future event/reward.

We in the Orthodox Church emphasize Here and Now where the Kingdom of God is in our hearts and this is what motivates us to keep going forward in a fallen world.
So, i'm not saying who's right or wrong, because again i am NOT God but i am illustrating the differences.

Now i know that you may or may not understand this, being you, and you might say "When we go to Heaven i betcha i'm right".

But, the point is that we all love God in different ways and we are supposed to Love and Forgive each other when we see minor differences because we are already united in the Major pillars like Jesus Christ Himself, The Trinity and many other statements of faith of the Baptist Church which i agree with.

 

[GodsGrace]

Yes. So true.


The biblical word believe means commit, trust, and obey.

Believe and obey are used interchangeably in scripture.


He who believes in the Son has everlasting life; and he who does not believe the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him.” John 3:36 NKJV

He who believes in the Son has eternal life; but he who does not obey the Son will not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him.” John 3:36 NASB


IOW’s unbelief is disobedience


Since therefore it remains that some must enter it, and those to whom it was first preached did not enter because of disobedience. Hebrews 4:8 NKJV

Seeing therefore it remaineth that some must enter therein, and they to whom it was first preached entered not in because of unbelief: Hebrews 4:8 KJV


To follow Him means to follow His pattern of lifestyle, which is to say obey Him.


Eternal salvation is promised to those who obey Him.


And having been perfected, He became the author of eternal salvation to all who obey Him, Hebrews 5:9

Hi,
Thanks for posting the verses showing how BELIEF AND OBEDIENCE....
DISBELIEF AND DISOBEDIENCE are used interchangeably in the NT.
This is due to the understanding of these words in the Greek....
To disbelieve means to disobey,
and V V....
there is no difference.

But some like to point out that John 3.36 says BELIEVE instead of OBEY, as if it made a difference.

And to have to debate the statement that it is necessary to obey God after salvation is rather disconcerting.

Again, thanks!

 

[GodsGrace]

I would say generally that is an acceptable message Sailor except on point 5 where YOU as a mortal human pretends to know the Mind of God where people are ultimately going (Hell or Heaven).
This is the main different between Orthodoxy and Protestants.
You emphasize your relationship and love you have for God as a future event/reward.

We in the Orthodox Church emphasize Here and Now where the Kingdom of God is in our hearts and this is what motivates us to keep going forward in a fallen world.
So, i'm not saying who's right or wrong, because again i am NOT God but i am illustrating the differences.

Now i know that you may or may not understand this, being you, and you might say "When we go to Heaven i betcha i'm right".

But, the point is that we all love God in different ways and we are supposed to Love and Forgive each other when we see minor differences because we are already united in the Major pillars like Jesus Christ Himself, The Trinity and many other statements of faith of the Baptist Church which i agree with.

Hi Eli...
If I may add to this conversation.
I'd like to agree with BOTH OF YOU.

You actually believe the same doctrine.

You believe that you will only know at the end whether or not you are saved.
Groovy actually believes the same.

Why?
Because he also believes that we will only know at the end of our lives that we have remained loyal to God and have not abandoned Him.

What we can say is that we can know that we are saved at this very moment by being at the foot of the cross.
To think that we can know for sure if we will endure to the end is a fallacy... no one can know the future.

I also want to state that it is through our own will that we can remain with God.
We might encounter a situation one day that might lead us to wonder if God really loves us...
perhaps questioning our very faith.

But it will still be through our will that we either remain IN HIM,,,
or abandon Him.

I don't mean to speak for either you or Groovy,,,this is just how I believe our faith to be.
We were saved. Ephesians 2:8
We are being saved. 1 Cor 1:18
We will be saved. 1 Peter 1:5

 

[JLB]

Hi,
Thanks for posting the verses showing how BELIEF AND OBEDIENCE....
DISBELIEF AND DISOBEDIENCE are used interchangeably in the NT.
This is due to the understanding of these words in the Greek....
To disbelieve means to disobey,
and V V....
there is no difference.

But some like to point out that John 3.36 says BELIEVE instead of OBEY, as if it made a difference.

And to have to debate the statement that it is necessary to obey God after salvation is rather disconcerting.

Again, thanks!

Believing without obeying is demonic believing.

You believe that there is one God. You do well. Even the demons believe—and tremble! James 2:19


From what I have read in scripture, it doesn’t go well for demons.

 

[Eli1+]

Hi Eli...
If I may add to this conversation.
I'd like to agree with BOTH OF YOU.

You actually believe the same doctrine.

You believe that you will only know at the end whether or not you are saved.
Groovy actually believes the same.

Why?
Because he also believes that we will only know at the end of our lives that we have remained loyal to God and have not abandoned Him.

What we can say is that we can know that we are saved at this very moment by being at the foot of the cross.
To think that we can know for sure if we will endure to the end is a fallacy... no one can know the future.

I also want to state that it is through our own will that we can remain with God.
We might encounter a situation one day that might lead us to wonder if God really loves us...
perhaps questioning our very faith.

But it will still be through our will that we either remain IN HIM,,,
or abandon Him.

I don't mean to speak for either you or Groovy,,,this is just how I believe our faith to be.
We were saved. Ephesians 2:8
We are being saved. 1 Cor 1:18
We will be saved. 1 Peter 1:5

Thank you for this message and God bless you.

 

[GodsGrace]

I would say generally that is an acceptable message Sailor except on point 5 where YOU as a mortal human pretends to know the Mind of God where people are ultimately going (Hell or Heaven).
This is the main different between Orthodoxy and Protestants.
You emphasize your relationship and love you have for God as a future event/reward.

We in the Orthodox Church emphasize Here and Now where the Kingdom of God is in our hearts and this is what motivates us to keep going forward in a fallen world.
So, i'm not saying who's right or wrong, because again i am NOT God but i am illustrating the differences.

Now i know that you may or may not understand this, being you, and you might say "When we go to Heaven i betcha i'm right".

But, the point is that we all love God in different ways and we are supposed to Love and Forgive each other when we see minor differences because we are already united in the Major pillars like Jesus Christ Himself, The Trinity and many other statements of faith of the Baptist Church which i agree with.

Hey Eli
I'm back but will be signing off now....
However, can you explain why you don't agree with item no. 5 of the other member's post?
I see no problem with it and which SEEMS to agree with my post to you, no. 86


Just curious.
'night.

1. There is a/one all-loving and just Lord or God (Deut. 6:4, John 3:16, 2Thes. 1:6), who is both able (2Tim. 1:12) and willing (1Tim. 2:3-4, Ezek. 33:11) to provide all morally accountable human beings salvation or heaven—a wonderful life full of love, joy and peace forever.
2. Human beings are selfish or sinful (Rom. 3:23, 2Tim. 3:2-4, Col. 3:5), miserable (Gal. 5:19-21), and hopeless (Eph. 2:12) or hell-bound at the judgment (Matt. 23:33 & 25:46) when they reject God’s salvation (John 3:18, Rom. 2:5-11).
3. Jesus is God’s Messiah/Christ and incarnate Son, the way that God has chosen (John 3:16, Acts 16:30-31, Phil. 2:9-11) of providing salvation by means of his atoning death on the cross for the payment of the penalty for the sins of humanity (Rom. 3:22-25 & 5:9-11), followed by his resurrection to reign in heaven (1Cor. 15:14-28).
4. Thus, every person who hears the NT Gospel needs to repent and accept God’s grace or justification in Jesus as Christ/Messiah the Lord or Supreme Commander (Luke 2:11, John 14:6, Acts 16:31), which means trying to obey His commandment to love one another (Matt. 22:37-40, John 13:35, Rom. 13:9)—forever (Matt. 10:22, Psa. 113:2).
5. Then God’s Holy Spirit will establish a saving relationship with those who freely accept/love Him (Rev. 3:20) that will eventually achieve heaven after Christ returns when by means of persevering in learning Truth/God’s Word/sanctification everyone cooperates fully with His will (John 14:6, 17&26, Rom. 8:6-17, Gal. 6:7-9, Eph. 1:13-14, Heb. 10:36, 12:1, Jam. 1:2-4).

 

[Eli1+]

Hey Eli
I'm back but will be signing off now....
However, can you explain why you don't agree with item no. 5 of the other member's post?
I see no problem with it and which SEEMS to agree with my post to you, no. 86


Just curious.
'night.

Hello Grace.
Me and this man know each other from another forum and i like his personality which makes me laugh sometimes.
I know he loves God but the way he expresses himself is very funny to me because he wants 100% military compliance due to spending his entire life in the military.
He's also not very self-aware on a lot of things he says about others for which he does himself to others.
One of the points is that he likes to pick a small word or even a comma simply because he wants his way and then says other things like "we need unity" while causing dis-unity because he doesn't forgive and wants his way or the highway.
So with this being said, i am returning the favor to him by disagreeing with point 5 where he says "that will eventually achieve heaven".
No one knows who achieves Heaven But God.

The thing is, if i scrutinize his messages to the level of detail that he does to others, he is simply unable to process that. I know this because on the other forum i asked him specific questions of salvation and he wasn't able to answer.

So long story short Grace me and him are long-time coffee buddies and we enjoy each-other's company over a coffee whether it's Cafe Christian Forum or Cafe Christian Chat.

God bless you always and i appreciate your comments which include wisdom and grace.

 

[Blain DeCastro]

I don't want to prove that I am Orthodox Christian. I have priest who I follow everything he saying for many years. And he told me to not be too good, as this is not Godly, so the way we act is good for us with him. The priest in Orthodoxy, called spiritual father is to you, your personal guide, of course it matters if the one who you have is worthy, but mine is, he said we have same spirituality, and he is very Orthodox, more like a saint. If he saying we have same spirituality means he knows I am Orthodox too. Of course I am baptized and chrismated as infant. I kept the baptism and whole life I am going to Orthodox church, keeping the commandments of God, reading Bible. I have fasted for years, and still struggling with God's way but this is the right way, and doing everyhing an Orthodox Christian doing. My Bible is Orthodox also. If you want to know what the Orthodox Christians believe you need to see the Nicene Creed. Also you need to open an Orthodox Bible, as it is different than the Protestant one. With the Protestant one, you will fall into sin, it is completely different. But it is in my own language, so read what your spiritual father telling you. Thanks.

I noticed you mentioned being baptized at birth, do you believe that makes you saved?

 

[Groovy]

I would say generally that is an acceptable message Sailor except on point 5 where YOU as a mortal human pretends to know the Mind of God where people are ultimately going (Hell or Heaven).
This is the main different between Orthodoxy and Protestants.
You emphasize your relationship and love you have for God as a future event/reward.

We in the Orthodox Church emphasize Here and Now where the Kingdom of God is in our hearts and this is what motivates us to keep going forward in a fallen world.
So, i'm not saying who's right or wrong, because again i am NOT God but i am illustrating the differences.

Now i know that you may or may not understand this, being you, and you might say "When we go to Heaven i betcha i'm right".

But, the point is that we all love God in different ways and we are supposed to Love and Forgive each other when we see minor differences because we are already united in the Major pillars like Jesus Christ Himself, The Trinity and many other statements of faith of the Baptist Church which i agree with.

Glad you approve, although you don't say who's right and wrong. If God cannot teach us His will, then I don't know why he went to the trouble of producing the Bible. Do you mean to say that Orthodoxy has a third place people might ultimately go?
Yes, I do believe God loves me, and I love Him, and I believe I will be resurrected to heaven. Orthodoxy doesn't believe this? If memory serves me correctly, I am the one who focused on God's will being done in the here and now and you scoffed at that idea, and I believe all who accept Him as Lord belong to His Kingdom.
Of course we are not God, but still you say you are right and those who disagree are wrong. That is just the way logic is structured. I illustrate this truth by making a bet.
I agree that we who love God should love and forgive one another regarding minor differences because we are one in Christ. A creed attempts to define what "being in Christ" means. I understand that we agree on my five points, which intends to state the minimum requirement that is implied by that phrase, except that I do not understand why you think #5 is wrong, so please explain that, and I will consider rephrasing it. Thanks.

 

[Blain DeCastro]

Glad you approve, although you don't say who's right and wrong. If God cannot teach us His will, then I don't know why he went to the trouble of producing the Bible. Do you mean to say that Orthodoxy has a third place people might ultimately go?
Yes, I do believe God loves me, and I love Him, and I believe I will be resurrected to heaven. Orthodoxy doesn't believe this? If memory serves me correctly, I am the one who focused on God's will being done in the here and now and you scoffed at that idea, and I believe all who accept Him as Lord belong to His Kingdom.
Of course we are not God, but still you say you are right and those who disagree are wrong. That is just the way logic is structured. I illustrate this truth by making a bet.
I agree that we who love God should love and forgive one another regarding minor differences because we are one in Christ. A creed attempts to define what "being in Christ" means. I understand that we agree on my five points, which intends to state the minimum requirement that is implied by that phrase, except that I do not understand why you think #5 is wrong, so please explain that, and I will consider rephrasing it. Thanks.

From what I understand they are saying that they believe we can have this love here and now with God while you believe it is a reward of sorts, of course I could be wrong but this seems to me at least to be what they are saying



This is the main different between Orthodoxy and Protestants.
You emphasize your relationship and love you have for God as a future event/reward.

Sorry I have not figured out how to muilti quote yet but this was what they were saying

 

[Eli1+]

Glad you approve, although you don't say who's right and wrong. If God cannot teach us His will, then I don't know why he went to the trouble of producing the Bible. Do you mean to say that Orthodoxy has a third place people might ultimately go?
Yes, I do believe God loves me, and I love Him, and I believe I will be resurrected to heaven. Orthodoxy doesn't believe this? If memory serves me correctly, I am the one who focused on God's will being done in the here and now and you scoffed at that idea, and I believe all who accept Him as Lord belong to His Kingdom.
Of course we are not God, but still you say you are right and those who disagree are wrong. That is just the way logic is structured. I illustrate this truth by making a bet.
I agree that we who love God should love and forgive one another regarding minor differences because we are one in Christ. A creed attempts to define what "being in Christ" means. I understand that we agree on my five points, which intends to state the minimum requirement that is implied by that phrase, except that I do not understand why you think #5 is wrong, so please explain that, and I will consider rephrasing it. Thanks.

I don’t say who’s right or wrong because I don’t know.
I am honest with myself.

I don’t pretend to be God and say “after I read the Bible when I was at the army, I now know how the King of the Universe is going to operate ALL the technicalities of Who goes to heaven and hell”.
I don’t say that because I don’t know and I leave it up to God.

In the Orthodox Church we call these “Mysteries of God”.

We don’t know how God does certain things but we are grateful for getting to know Christ here and now.

I also disagree with your mixing of politics with the Kingdom of God and I will continue to scoff at you until the end.

You’re laughable with that interpretation and Christ said to give Cesar what belongs to Caesar. We’ve been over this many times.

So this is why you’re wrong on number 5 because nobody but God knows where anyone is going.

We know nothing on that level of Divinity and complexity.

 

[OrthodoxBeliever]

I noticed you mentioned being baptized at birth, do you believe that makes you saved?

Yes.

 

[Groovy]

From what I understand they are saying that they believe we can have this love here and now with God while you believe it is a reward of sorts, of course I could be wrong but this seems to me at least to be what they are saying



This is the main different between Orthodoxy and Protestants.
You emphasize your relationship and love you have for God as a future event/reward.

Sorry I have not figured out how to muilti quote yet but this was what they were saying

I see that Eli has also replied, but I will say at this point I believe in both now and future fellowship/blessings/riches.

 

[Groovy]

I don’t say who’s right or wrong because I don’t know.
I am honest with myself.

I don’t pretend to be God and say “after I read the Bible when I was at the army, I now know how the King of the Universe is going to operate ALL the technicalities of Who goes to heaven and hell”.
I don’t say that because I don’t know and I leave it up to God.

In the Orthodox Church we call these “Mysteries of God”.

We don’t know how God does certain things but we are grateful for getting to know Christ here and now.

I also disagree with your mixing of politics with the Kingdom of God and I will continue to scoff at you until the end.

You’re laughable with that interpretation and Christ said to give Cesar what belongs to Caesar. We’ve been over this many times.

So this is why you’re wrong on number 5 because nobody but God knows where anyone is going.

We know nothing on that level of Divinity and complexity.

No one knows who is right, but everyone believes they know what is right, and when we believe we are wrong we should amend our belief so that we believe we are right. Right?
When we read the Bible we learn (in 2Cor. 5:7) that we all operate by faith if we are honest with ourselves,
even though we pretend not to believe and say, "I don't know and leave it up to God".
Some things are revealed as we learn God's Word (GW), and some things may remain mysteries.
"Knowing Christ" means believing that God does certain things, even though we may not know how,
and so we are grateful for the understanding we have attained and desire to be good stewards of GW.
I see you are committed to scoffing at GW regarding being salt and light to the political world.
It is laughable that by judging my interpretation you illustrate believing/betting you are right.
I will ponder how to incorporate your point about not being judgmental in the creed #5 [[Then God’s Holy Spirit will establish a saving relationship with those who freely accept/love Him (Rev. 3:20) that will eventually achieve heaven after Christ returns when by means of persevering in learning Truth/God’s Word/sanctification everyone cooperates fully with His will (John 14:6, 17&26, Rom. 8:6-17, Gal. 6:7-9, Eph. 1:13-14, Heb. 10:36, 12:1, Jam. 1:2-4).]], although I think it is already implied by saying "those". TTYL

 

[Groovy]

Yes.

So, having faith is superfluous?

 

[OrthodoxBeliever]

So, having faith is superfluous?

When I said this?

 

[Eli1+]

No one knows who is right, but everyone believes they know what is right, and when we believe we are wrong we should amend our belief so that we believe we are right. Right?
When we read the Bible we learn (in 2Cor. 5:7) that we all operate by faith if we are honest with ourselves,
even though we pretend not to believe and say, "I don't know and leave it up to God".
Some things are revealed as we learn God's Word (GW), and some things may remain mysteries.
"Knowing Christ" means believing that God does certain things, even though we may not know how,
and so we are grateful for the understanding we have attained and desire to be good stewards of GW.
I see you are committed to scoffing at GW regarding being salt and light to the political world.
It is laughable that by judging my interpretation you illustrate believing/betting you are right.
I will ponder how to incorporate your point about not being judgmental in the creed #5 [[Then God’s Holy Spirit will establish a saving relationship with those who freely accept/love Him (Rev. 3:20) that will eventually achieve heaven after Christ returns when by means of persevering in learning Truth/God’s Word/sanctification everyone cooperates fully with His will (John 14:6, 17&26, Rom. 8:6-17, Gal. 6:7-9, Eph. 1:13-14, Heb. 10:36, 12:1, Jam. 1:2-4).]], although I think it is already implied by saying "those". TTYL

When I judge your laughable interpretation and confusion that the kingdom of God has anything to do with politics I am indeed making a personal choice based on my interpretation of the Bible.

But when I say that Nobody but God knows where anyone is going, that’s the part where I say “ I don’t know”.

I say that because knowing whether one is going to be with God or not is essentially the Meaning of Life question.

And I can’t pretend to know The Meaning of Life question where people are going to spend eternity.

This is why no one can know who is right or wrong in this question.

But when you confuse politics with God, one can make an opinion because this is here and now and we live in the here and now.

When you confuse spiritual messages with material messages you become a fool and I already told you before that the equivalent of Heaven on Earth is a socialist system but since we are not Gods to convert a loaf of fishes into food and resources for billions of people, this becomes an impossible task in the material world but it is possible in the spiritual world which is our heart and minds.

This is why we in the church gain strength, hope and motivation when we know Christ and follow His teachings to help us navigate the fallen world which is not the kingdom of God. This is where the salt applies, as ambassadors of Christ and its not about having a literal kingdom here where death sickness and disease is gone. Don’t confuse these things.

It makes life here more than bearable with Christ who shared in our suffering and defeated death. It makes it joyful. Almost like paradise.

This point of difference is also worth noting between the Orthodox Church and the Protestants. We focus more on the resurrection whereas you focus more on the shedding of blood because you want to link that to salvation.
Whereas we in the east focus on resurrection because this act gives us hope to continue here and now in the physical world which is Not The Kingdom of God where you want to mix your politics.

You also have to understand another thing.
Some people are not meant to teach. They don’t have the gift.
You are one of them. You take a good thing and ruin it by the way you express yourself.
It’s like taking a good wine and throwing vinegar in it.
But it is what it is, this is how the world goes.
We have another coffee for now and laugh again and thank Christ for this moment.