[_ Old Earth _] Christianity's Compatibly with Science.

[Alabaster]

And yet the determination of that 'truth' appears to depend very much of the differing interpretations of fallible human beings - as demonstrated by the selective definitions of what constitute scientific biblical facts that you offered us previously.

No it doesn't. Holy Spirit is all-powerful, and quickens the truth to us. Those who have trained their ears to His voice can't miss it.

 

[lordkalvan]

No it doesn't. Holy Spirit is all-powerful, and quickens the truth to us. Those who have trained their ears to His voice can't miss it.

Which assertion seems to be quite subjective and pretty much the equivalent of a self-fulfilling prophecy.

 

[Deavonreye]

It takes the Spirit of God to discern the scriptures. It is always truth, no matter what style of speaking is used.

When God speaks, no matter which book He is recorded in, it is always truth.

Science can never counter God's truth. Fallible scientists often come to erroneous conclusions, and hold to them until they discover they were wrong all along. God is always right. He is the Master Scientist, the Creator of all things. If you think that God is countering science, then science is wrong. Period.

Holy Spirit is all-powerful, and quickens the truth to us. Those who have trained their ears to His voice can't miss it.

A "quickening of truth" that often ends in church splits and denominational fighting?

I have seen the "truths", as per the information you posted from that link. It is only "true" to those who MAKE it "true" by reading into what isn't there. For instance, . . . . using the "circle of the earth" to suddenly mean "sphere" is completely reading into that verse, especially when ALL other descriptions gives an obvious connotation of a flat earth. Tent, four corners, . . . even the story of "the temptation of Jesus", when Satan took him to a high mountain to show him all the kingdoms of the earth!! Flat earth mentality. No way around it.

 

[Free]

Christians who enjoy searching the word for truth about a matter would agree with the material.

I enjoy searching the Bible for truth but I do not agree with many of the "Scientific facts in the Bible." That list is a case of prooftexting and very poor exegesis.

God is a wonderful poet, describing how He is Lord over all things.

Does that apply here?: "The prophet Isaiah also tells us that the earth is round: "It is he that sits upon the circle of the earth" (Isaiah 40:22). This is not a reference to a flat disk, as some skeptic maintain, but to a sphere."

By definition a circle is not a sphere. So how is it that "hailstones in warehouses" is poetry and "circle of the earth" literally means the earth is a sphere? You can't have it both ways.

 

[Alabaster]

I enjoy searching the Bible for truth but I do not agree with many of the "Scientific facts in the Bible." That list is a case of prooftexting and very poor exegesis.

That's a matter of opinion.

Does that apply here?: "The prophet Isaiah also tells us that the earth is round: "It is he that sits upon the circle of the earth" (Isaiah 40:22). This is not a reference to a flat disk, as some skeptic maintain, but to a sphere."

By definition a circle is not a sphere. So how is it that "hailstones in warehouses" is poetry and "circle of the earth" literally means the earth is a sphere? You can't have it both ways.

Just the fact that the writers of old even knew that the earth was ROUND/CIRCULAR, is proof enough for me to accept that God is indeed the author and that these men were Holy Spirit inspired. Spherical? That is secondary.

Either the Bible is authoritative regarding all things or it isn't.

I take it as authoritative. God isn't a buffoon, nor does He joke around. So, somewhere a Christian needs to reconcile this issue regarding science and how secular-minded people use it to oppose God and truth, and just choose the side of truth.

 

[Deavonreye]

It is easy to reconcile when you don't have "an unbending need to make every word as from god". That's been my focus on any of the threads I get on. To make it [an innerrant bible] work, then this god would have to be "a buffoon", but that isn't the case if you bend TO the possibility that these things were written by a man who was attempting to understand the world he lived in, with all the mystery found in it. I think it is a mistake to think otherwise [including many topics], which causes many of the debates. Most of the issues would fall away and the good focused on, . . . . and no one would think of coming on here to debate.

 

[Alabaster]

It is easy to reconcile when you don't have "an unbending need to make every word as from god". That's been my focus on any of the threads I get on. To make it [an innerrant bible] work, then this god would have to be "a buffoon", but that isn't the case if you bend TO the possibility that these things were written by a man who was attempting to understand the world he lived in, with all the mystery found in it. I think it is a mistake to think otherwise [including many topics], which causes many of the debates. Most of the issues would fall away and the good focused on, . . . . and no one would think of coming on here to debate.

The Bible WORKS. No one has to make it work. Of course ancient men had no inkling about the facts concerning the creation we know about today! That is why it is important to know that God told them, and His voice was filtered through their own limited knowledge and came out the way it did. NOT WRONG, but completely primitive and correct.

 

[lordkalvan]

That's a matter of opinion.

Which is the point, I think. What makes your opinion the preferred one?

Just the fact that the writers of old even knew that the earth was ROUND/CIRCULAR, is proof enough for me to accept that God is indeed the author and that these men were Holy Spirit inspired. Spherical? That is secondary.

And I point out again that if you climb to the summit of some high ground and look around you through 360 degrees, the Earth before you will appear to inscribe a circle. No supernatural authorship required, just simple observation. And as it was your claim that expressed the idea that circle = sphere, I am surprised to see you disown it so readily and dismiss it as irrelevant.

Either the Bible is authoritative regarding all things or it isn't.

Well, I guess it isn't, then.

I take it as authoritative. God isn't a buffoon, nor does He joke around. So, somewhere a Christian needs to reconcile this issue regarding science and how secular-minded people use it to oppose God and truth, and just choose the side of truth.

What you take it as is not evidential, unfortunately. Science is neutral and has no 'issues' with the Bible; it is only biblical literalists who feel the need to justify the apparent contradictions between the Bible and science.

 

[Deavonreye]

The Bible WORKS. No one has to make it work. Of course ancient men had no inkling about the facts concerning the creation we know about today! That is why it is important to know that God told them, and His voice was filtered through their own limited knowledge and came out the way it did. NOT WRONG, but completely primitive and correct.

Yes, . . . wrong. . . .. . in the ideas even found in "poetry". There is absolutely no truth to "a heavenly storehouse for hail stones, being preserved there for the day of battle". . . . or "lightning reporting to god and him telling it where to strike" [again, undoubtably a throw back to Zeus]. This includes all of the flat earth ideologies that I have already pointed out, including the "temptation of Jesus" story.

 

[Alabaster]

Yes, . . . wrong. . . .. . in the ideas even found in "poetry". There is absolutely no truth to "a heavenly storehouse for hail stones, being preserved there for the day of battle". . . . or "lightning reporting to god and him telling it where to strike" [again, undoubtably a throw back to Zeus]. This includes all of the flat earth ideologies that I have already pointed out, including the "temptation of Jesus" story.

False. I know what God is saying there. You just have to know Him and His word to get it.

To unbelievers, His word is foolish. To those who know Him, He is right on!

His word tells us of great hailstones the size of cars that will strike the earth in the last days. All nature, including lightning will turn on the earth in massive displays of His wrath.

 

[Deavonreye]

False. I know what God is saying there. You just have to know Him and His word to get it.

To unbelievers, His word is foolish. To those who know Him, He is right on!

His word tells us of great hailstones the size of cars that will strike the earth in the last days. All nature, including lightning will turn on the earth in massive displays of His wrath.

Christians truly love to use the verse about "the word being foolishness to the gentile". Perhaps it is. If it had BEEN in line with actual science, then people wouldn't be seeing it AS foolish. Imagine how excellent of testimony it would have been if actual science had been placed in there!

As for these "great hailstones", you are aware that such a thing would go against the laws of physics. I know that most likely you will respond with "all things are possible for god". But then you can't state the bible as "agreeing with science".

And I hope you do know that lightning doesn't have a purpose. It is only a reaction. And Zeus was the god who threw lightning.

 

[Alabaster]

Christians truly love to use the verse about "the word being foolishness to the gentile". Perhaps it is. If it had BEEN in line with actual science, then people wouldn't be seeing it AS foolish. Imagine how excellent of testimony it would have been if actual science had been placed in there!

No, the word has been crafted the way it is for a purpose. You do not have a better plan.

As for these "great hailstones", you are aware that such a thing would go against the laws of physics. I know that most likely you will respond with "all things are possible for god". But then you can't state the bible as "agreeing with science".

And I hope you do know that lightning doesn't have a purpose. It is only a reaction. And Zeus was the god who threw lightning.

Physics, schmysics. God supersedes all natural laws if He so chooses, because He is supernatural like that. There is a purpose for everything--even lightning. God's purpose in His time of wrath is to---get this---KILL.

 

[Deavonreye]

No, the word has been crafted the way it is for a purpose. You do not have a better plan.



Physics, schmysics. God supersedes all natural laws if He so chooses, because He is supernatural like that. There is a purpose for everything--even lightning. God's purpose in His time of wrath is to---get this---KILL.

How wonderfully primative.

See it [biblical ideologies] as you will, but you cannot state that the same text agrees with science. The earth isn't flat. Hailstones aren't "stored for battle". Lighning reports to no one. There were no fire breathing dragons.

 

[jasoncran]

Christians truly love to use the verse about "the word being foolishness to the gentile". Perhaps it is. If it had BEEN in line with actual science, then people wouldn't be seeing it AS foolish. Imagine how excellent of testimony it would have been if actual science had been placed in there!

As for these "great hailstones", you are aware that such a thing would go against the laws of physics. I know that most likely you will respond with "all things are possible for god". But then you can't state the bible as "agreeing with science".

And I hope you do know that lightning doesn't have a purpose. It is only a reaction. And Zeus was the god who threw lightning.

lighting is something that we floridians see alot.

in general.it travels from the ground up and is the attempt of stabilizing the static discharge.

i live near the lighting capital of the world and have been nearly struck twice.

theres more than i thought about this stuff.

Lightning - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[jasoncran]

No, the word has been crafted the way it is for a purpose. You do not have a better plan.



Physics, schmysics. God supersedes all natural laws if He so chooses, because He is supernatural like that. There is a purpose for everything--even lightning. God's purpose in His time of wrath is to---get this---KILL.

uh,why cant God just make lighting a randon event that really has no purpose but to be a side effect of natural static discharge

i mean its quite genius what lighting does and is.

its basically forcing air into the fourth state of matter called plasma.


google this math term E.
you laugh but that is repeatedly found number/function that plants and animals multiply by.

a pattern if you will and its in alot of other things such as accounting.

 

[Deavonreye]

Good posts, jason. Lightning is quite incredible, for sure!

 

[Alabaster]

How wonderfully primative.

See it [biblical ideologies] as you will, but you cannot state that the same text agrees with science. The earth isn't flat. Hailstones aren't "stored for battle". Lighning reports to no one. There were no fire breathing dragons.

The word of God is truth.

 

[Alabaster]

uh,why cant God just make lighting a randon event that really has no purpose but to be a side effect of natural static discharge

i mean its quite genius what lighting does and is.

its basically forcing air into the fourth state of matter called plasma.

Yeah, why can't He?

 

[jasoncran]

i hate doing this to brethren.

why do you alalbaster see that the book of job is all literal and not poetic?

can you post how the original writers took note that it was poetry or literal by the acrostic?

if acrostic what would be the point of hammer this?

and where does the bible mention these?

the theory of electromagmentism?
the law of gravity?
keplers law?
avogrado's law?
cell theory?
germ theory?
abiogenesis(for the record, i dont buy this)
biogenesis

quantam physics/mechanics?
valence shells?

the theory of electricty?

FOR the record I am a creationist.

 

[Deavonreye]

i hate doing this to brethren.

why do you alalbaster see that the book of job is all literal and not poetic?

can you post how the original writers took note that it was poetry or literal by the acrostic?

if acrostic what would be the point of hammer this?

and where does the bible mention these?

the theory of electromagmentism?
the law of gravity?
keplers law?
avogrado's law?
cell theory?
germ theory?
abiogenesis(for the record, i dont buy this)
biogenesis

quantam physics/mechanics?
valence shells?

the theory of electricty?

FOR the record I am a creationist.

Can you imagine [as I've said before] how great a tool for evangelism it would have been for Jesus to state some of these things in the bible, spoke them to those writers EVEN IN a way they wouldn't even have a clue what they were writing down? It would have been an wonderful way to show that this one religion, amongst the thousands, was actually the true one. A great opportunity lost.