can a HEATHEN be saved ?

[SpagLard]

I was wondering about this for some time now,
and figures i would ask people here their take on this.

I've added a poll ,. so you don't have to type out what you think, you can just click a box if you like.

Can a person who has never been in Christ be saved ?
I mean, take the hypothetical scenario that someone has been cut
off from society and the information age, and does not know Christ or Christianity.

When Jesus returns, will the heathen (or pagan , or atheist)
be judged upon his/her deeds and willfullness to accept Christ right then and there ?

 

[farouk]

John 14.6

 

[SpagLard]

yeah farouk , i know the passage..

<H3>John 14:6-14

New International Version (NIV)

6 Jesus answered, “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me. 7 If you really know me, you will know[a] my Father as well. From now on, you do know him and have seen him.â€
8 Philip said, “Lord, show us the Father and that will be enough for us.â€
9 Jesus answered: “Don’t you know me, Philip, even after I have been among you such a long time? Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father. How can you say, ‘Show us the Father’? 10 Don’t you believe that I am in the Father, and that the Father is in me? The words I say to you I do not speak on my own authority. Rather, it is the Father, living in me, who is doing his work. 11 Believe me when I say that I am in the Father and the Father is in me; or at least believe on the evidence of the works themselves. 12 Very truly I tell you, whoever believes in me will do the works I have been doing, and they will do even greater things than these, because I am going to the Father. 13 And I will do whatever you ask in my name, so that the Father may be glorified in the Son. 14 You may ask me for anything in my name, and I will do it.

But what if a person does good works, is faithful and morally a good person,
yet has not accepted Christ ?
(this could be simply because they never "met" him )

It's a difficult question to me,
but i would assume Christ knows humans by their heart even if they do not accept / know Christ as Lord.

what say you ?

 

[John 8:32]

I was wondering about this for some time now,
and figures i would ask people here their take on this.

I've added a poll ,. so you don't have to type out what you think, you can just click a box if you like.

Can a person who has never been in Christ be saved ?
I mean, take the hypothetical scenario that someone has been cut
off from society and the information age, and does not know Christ or Christianity.

When Jesus returns, will the heathen (or pagan , or atheist)
be judged upon his/her deeds and willfullness to accept Christ right then and there ?

No, not right then and there, but they will be brought up in the second resurrection...

Rev 20:11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.
Rev 20:12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.

Judged by the same standard we are judged by today, the books of the Bible and either have their name written in the Book of Life, or face verses 13-15.

 

[handy]

Hearing and receiving the gospel is the only way in which we are assured that salvation is ours... this is why it's imperative that the Church share the gospel, so that all may hear the truth and the truth can set them free.

However, there are a lot of people who will face judgment day never hearing that truth. Now, Jesus said that no man will see the Father except through Him and that there is life no other way. Historically, the Church has taught that any who are born, live and die without ever hearing the gospel are automatically doomed.

I'm not so sure.

I don't think the Bible truly addresses those who are born, live and die without ever hearing the Gospel. But, we are given both warnings and also a glimmer of hope for those people.

The warnings are obvious but the glimmer of hope is this:

In Romans 1, we see that God has created the world in such a way that His invisible attributes, His divine nature and His eternal power is clearly seen. Now, the rest of the Chapter is dealing with those who reject even what can be known about God via creation...

But, I'm always drawn back to Acts 17:22-34, when Paul spoke to the men of Athens on Mars Hill. Paul says several things here that give that glimmer of hope for those who never hear the gospel.

One is "He made from one man every nation of mankind to live on all the face of the earth, having determined their appointed times and the boundaries of their habitation, that they would seek God, if perhaps they might grope for Him and find Him, though He is not far from each one of us..."

and,

"Therefore having overlooked the times of ignorance, God is now declaring to men that all people everywhere should repent, because He has fixed a day in which He will judge the world in righteousness through a Man whom He has appointed, having furnished proof to all men by raising Him from the dead.â€

These texts suggest to me, others disagree I know, that some, seeing God's invisible attributes via creation may very well grope for Him in ignorance and Jesus, judging in righteousness, may overlook their ignorance....

I don't think we need worry unduly about those who are born, live and die with never hearing the Gospel, but instead simply understand that they will be judged by Jesus with righteousness. (This is the same One who said, "Love your enemies as yourself....)

Now, hearing the truth and knowing the Gospel is far, far better than groping around in the dark and in ignorance. But, there is hope.

 

[handy]

I voted "I don't know" in your poll... it was the best choice for me given the options.

If there was an option of "God will judge the truly ignorant in righteousness and love" I would have gone for that...

I can't opt for the "salvation for the worthy" though... none of us are worthy.

 

[John 8:32]

Hearing and receiving the gospel is the only way in which we are assured that salvation is ours... this is why it's imperative that the Church share the gospel, so that all may hear the truth and the truth can set them free.

However, there are a lot of people who will face judgment day never hearing that truth. Now, Jesus said that no man will see the Father except through Him and that there is life no other way. Historically, the Church has taught that any who are born, live and die without ever hearing the gospel are automatically doomed.

I'm not so sure.

I don't think the Bible truly addresses those who are born, live and die without ever hearing the Gospel. But, we are given both warnings and also a glimmer of hope for those people.

Actually, I think it does...

Rom 11:25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.

Rom 11:32 For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all.

Would God conclude them in unbelief (if God does something, can any human resist?) and then fry them for something completely out of their control? No missionary ever went to China in 100 BC.

The warnings are obvious but the glimmer of hope is this:

In Romans 1, we see that God has created the world in such a way that His invisible attributes, His divine nature and His eternal power is clearly seen. Now, the rest of the Chapter is dealing with those who reject even what can be known about God via creation...

But, I'm always drawn back to Acts 17:22-34, when Paul spoke to the men of Athens on Mars Hill. Paul says several things here that give that glimmer of hope for those who never hear the gospel.

One is "He made from one man every nation of mankind to live on all the face of the earth, having determined their appointed times and the boundaries of their habitation, that they would seek God, if perhaps they might grope for Him and find Him, though He is not far from each one of us..."

and,

"Therefore having overlooked the times of ignorance, God is now declaring to men that all people everywhere should repent, because He has fixed a day in which He will judge the world in righteousness through a Man whom He has appointed, having furnished proof to all men by raising Him from the dead.”

These texts suggest to me, others disagree I know, that some, seeing God's invisible attributes via creation may very well grope for Him in ignorance and Jesus, judging in righteousness, may overlook their ignorance....

I don't think we need worry unduly about those who are born, live and die with never hearing the Gospel, but instead simply understand that they will be judged by Jesus with righteousness. (This is the same One who said, "Love your enemies as yourself....)

Now, hearing the truth and knowing the Gospel is far, far better than groping around in the dark and in ignorance. But, there is hope.

The real hope is the Great White Throne Judgment. When those who have not had a chance, (Rev 20:5, the rest of the dead) are resurrected to a physical resurrection and given the knowledge of the truth of God (Rev 20:12, the books, all 66 of them, are opened) and they then are given the same chance for salvation.

The idea that God is desparately trying to save everyone at the moment and the Devil is trying to get everyone lost is the teaching known as The Great Controversy. It was made popular by Ellen G. White and the SDAs. If this is a great controversy and God is trying to save everyone right now, He ain't doing such a hot job at it. The truth is that there will be very few who ultimately, in full knowledge, reject salvation. There will be some to go to the lake of fire, but not the majority.

 

[stovebolts]

I voted salvation is for everyone. Can't wait to get hit with a bunch of rocks now...

NIV: Romans 2:6 God “will repay each person according to what they have done.” 7 To those who by persistence in doing good seek glory, honor and immortality, he will give eternal life. 8 But for those who are self-seeking and who reject the truth and follow evil, there will be wrath and anger. 9 There will be trouble and distress for every human being who does evil: first for the Jew, then for the Gentile; 10 but glory, honor and peace for everyone who does good: first for the Jew, then for the Gentile. 11 For God does not show favoritism.

We see here that Paul is discussing two types of people. Gentiles and Jews and we see that Paul says, "God “will repay each person according to what they have done.” and we notice Paul isn't saying, "Christians and non-Christians". But before we start thinking that old "I'm going to earn my salvation", that's NOT what Paul is talking about, and it's not what I'm talking about. You see, Paul knows that God judges us on our hearts, not our actions. Everyone knows the basics of right and wrong and we all have a choice.

Earlier, Paul even said, Romans 1:18 The wrath of God is being revealed from heaven against all the godlessness and wickedness of people, who suppress the truth by their wickedness, 19 since what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them. 20 For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that people are without excuse.

Again, Paul is talking about ALL humanity. Everyone.

I saw a movie called "End of the Spear" that was set in the 40's? Missionaries went into a remote village and the village already had a supreme God. The missionaries didn't pit YHVH against their God. No, they said, "God has revealed himself to another people and God called himself YHVH to those people. God had a son, and his name was Jesus. The villlage was never forced to choose god's. They already Knew God, but by a different name. And just like Apollo, they just needed a bit more detail.

According to scripture, Colossians 1:15 The Son is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation. 16 For in him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things have been created through him and for him. 17 He is before all things, and in him all things hold together. 18 And he is the head of the body, the church; he is the beginning and the firstborn from among the dead, so that in everything he might have the supremacy. 19 For God was pleased to have all his fullness dwell in him, 20 and through him to reconcile to himself all things, whether things on earth or things in heaven, by making peace through his blood, shed on the cross.

I believe that there will be people in heaven who never heard the name of Jesus, but where "in Christ".

NIV 1 Timothy 10 That is why we labor and strive, because we have put our hope in the living God, who is the Savior of all people, and especially of those who believe.

 

[reba]

Rom 1:20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:


This says to me... What we are calling a heathen can look at God's creation and know there is a God.... This heathen would not know the "sinners prayer" but i do believe he would know in his heart.....
Our God is one of Grace and Mercy

Rom 3:29 Is he the God of the Jews only? is he not also of the Gentiles? Yes, of the Gentiles also:

Strongs' : the word gentile from the above verse...

Probably from G1486; a race (as of the same habit), that is, a tribe; specifically a foreign (non-Jewish) one (usually by implication pagan): - Gentile, heathen, nation, people.

 

[stovebolts]

Hi Sister,

I'm reminded of these verses..

NIV Ecclesiastes 3:9 What do workers gain from their toil? 10 I have seen the burden God has laid on the human race. 11 He has made everything beautiful in its time. He has also set eternity in the human heart; yet no one can fathom what God has done from beginning to end. 12 I know that there is nothing better for people than to be happy and to do good while they live. 13 That each of them may eat and drink, and find satisfaction in all their toil—this is the gift of God. 14 I know that everything God does will endure forever; nothing can be added to it and nothing taken from it. God does it so that people will fear him.

 

[Free]

I voted salvation is for everyone. Can't wait to get hit with a bunch of rocks now...

Yeah, I haven't voted as it isn't quite clear enough. Salvation has been made available to everyone but if one doesn't accept that and believe in Christ, then they won't be saved.

 

[Cassian]

Rom 1:20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:


This says to me... What we are calling a heathen can look at God's creation and know there is a God.... This heathen would not know the "sinners prayer" but i do believe he would know in his heart.....
Our God is one of Grace and Mercy

Rom 3:29 Is he the God of the Jews only? is he not also of the Gentiles? Yes, of the Gentiles also:

Strongs' : the word gentile from the above verse...

Probably from G1486; a race (as of the same habit), that is, a tribe; specifically a foreign (non-Jewish) one (usually by implication pagan): - Gentile, heathen, nation, people.

There is no such thing as a person that will never know God. God has made sure that all men will know him in the measure of grace that was given to each. Every single human being will actually make an active choice of either accepting or rejecting God.

This is the meaning of Rom 1:20. There are some who use the word gospel or word of God as if that is restricted ONLY to a text we call the Bible. Not So. God speaks to every human being from the innate gifts He gives us to use to His external means.

We in the present time have the benefit or disadvantage depending on how one choses of using every means God has bestowed upon man. Which is why those who have known of His Coming, that He was revealed to man, then gave us the Gospel of the NT age will be held more accountable than an aborigine somewhere in the world or those who lived in Abraham's time, even before Israel.

 

[stovebolts]

Yeah, I haven't voted as it isn't quite clear enough. Salvation has been made available to everyone but if one doesn't accept that and believe in Christ, then they won't be saved.

How do you understand this verse?
NIV 1 Timothy 10 That is why we labor and strive, because we have put our hope in the living God, who is the Savior of all people, and especially of those who believe.

Israel had a mission, and that was to be a light to the nations and show them how to live in accordance to God's will. We as Christians have that same mission.

Isaiah 49:6 And he said, It is a light thing that thou shouldest be my servant to raise up the tribes of Jacob, and to restore the preserved of Israel: I will also give thee for a light to the Gentiles, that thou mayest be my salvation unto the end of the earth.

Romans 10:12-15 For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him. For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved. How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher? And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things!

Is it good news that those who have not heard the gospel are hell bound simply because they have not heard of Jesus? I didn't think so.

Cyrus put his faith in Murduk, yet scripture holds him up as a savior to Israel. Note the below scripture, YHVH is the God of Isreal, yet Cyrus, God' annointed one worships Murduk.

KJV Isaiah 45:1-3 Thus saith the LORD to his anointed, to Cyrus, whose right hand I have holden, to subdue nations before him; and I will loose the loins of kings, to open before him the two leaved gates; and the gates shall not be shut; I will go before thee, and make the crooked places straight: I will break in pieces the gates of brass, and cut in sunder the bars of iron: And I will give thee the treasures of darkness, and hidden riches of secret places, that thou mayest know that I, the LORD, which call thee by thy name, am the God of Israel.

 

[Free]

How do you understand this verse?
NIV 1 Timothy 10 That is why we labor and strive, because we have put our hope in the living God, who is the Savior of all people, and especially of those who believe.

Israel had a mission, and that was to be a light to the nations and show them how to live in accordance to God's will. We as Christians have that same mission.

Isaiah 49:6 And he said, It is a light thing that thou shouldest be my servant to raise up the tribes of Jacob, and to restore the preserved of Israel: I will also give thee for a light to the Gentiles, that thou mayest be my salvation unto the end of the earth.

Romans 10:12-15 For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him. For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved. How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher? And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things!

Is it good news that those who have not heard the gospel are hell bound simply because they have not heard of Jesus? I didn't think so.

Cyrus put his faith in Murduk, yet scripture holds him up as a savior to Israel. Note the below scripture, YHVH is the God of Isreal, yet Cyrus, God' annointed one worships Murduk.

KJV Isaiah 45:1-3 Thus saith the LORD to his anointed, to Cyrus, whose right hand I have holden, to subdue nations before him; and I will loose the loins of kings, to open before him the two leaved gates; and the gates shall not be shut; I will go before thee, and make the crooked places straight: I will break in pieces the gates of brass, and cut in sunder the bars of iron: And I will give thee the treasures of darkness, and hidden riches of secret places, that thou mayest know that I, the LORD, which call thee by thy name, am the God of Israel.

I would understand all those verses in the light of the clearer ones:

Joh 3:14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, so must the Son of Man be lifted up,
Joh 3:15 that whoever believes in him may have eternal life.
Joh 3:16 "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.
Joh 3:17 For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him.
Joh 3:18 Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only Son of God. (ESV)

Rom 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel, for it is the power of God for salvation to everyone who believes, to the Jew first and also to the Greek.
Rom 1:17 For in it the righteousness of God is revealed from faith for faith, as it is written, "The righteous shall live by faith."
Rom 1:18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who by their unrighteousness suppress the truth.
Rom 1:19 For what can be known about God is plain to them, because God has shown it to them.
Rom 1:20 For his invisible attributes, namely, his eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly perceived, ever since the creation of the world, in the things that have been made. So they are without excuse. (ESV)


As for 1 Tim 4:10, I believe that says what I said: that salvation is provided to all but one is actually saved only if they believe.

Regarding Rom 10, of course it isn't good news that those who have never heard the gospel may end up apart from God for eternity. That is Paul's point, hence why the "feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things," are "beautiful." His thrust there seems to be "Get out and preach!" And as I pointed out, there are those to whom Jesus reveals himself in visions or dreams that then come to a saving knowledge of him.

The Bible is clear that not all will be saved but in the end God will be just. He is the only one who can truly judge such matters.

 

[stovebolts]

The Bible is clear that not all will be saved but in the end God will be just. He is the only one who can truly judge such matters.

Hey Duane,
I find it odd that you state that only God can truly judge such matters, yet in the same breath you say that unless the gospel is preached, and one believes then they are bound to hell. Isn't that putting yourself in the judgment seat on such matters? I can understand how it would be your opinion, but I don't see it as a biblical supported argument.

What is clear is that God judges us by what's in our heart and one doesn't have to be a Christian or previously a Jew to follow the truth that is inside of them. Jesus said that He was the way and the truth. By way I believe he meant as an example of Torah, which is God's instruction to Godly living. By Truth, I think he meant that he is all Truth. 2+2 = 4 is truth, but I think it's more than that. Truth is a way of living that brings about abundant life in line with the way God originally created us to live. Paul brings this out when he says that gentiles that dont have the law do what's in the law have obeyed the law. Why? Because truth it truth.

I think the biggest problem with Christianity is that it's pushed that you have to believe in the idea of Jesus, yet living the "way" of Jesus is second fiddle and grace becomes an excuse for sin. I think we've got it backward. Don't get me wrong, believing in Jesus is good news, and for many reasons but if you want to draw somebody in relationship with God, then have them live in the truth, and the truth will set them free because Jesus is truth, and it's the truth that draws all men to God.

As for 1 Tim 4:10, I believe that says what I said: that salvation is provided to all but one is actually saved only if they believe.

Does it really say that?

kjv: 1 Timothy 4:10 For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.

I thought it said specially those who believe, not only those that believe.

 

[Free]

Hey Duane,
I find it odd that you state that only God can truly judge such matters, yet in the same breath you say that unless the gospel is preached, and one believes then they are bound to hell. Isn't that putting yourself in the judgment seat on such matters? I can understand how it would be your opinion, but I don't see it as a biblical supported argument.

Sorry, which isn't a biblically supported argument? My point is that according to Scripture, if one doesn't believe in Christ--who he is and all that he has done--then one isn't saved. That isn't necessarily judging, that's what Scripture teaches. In the end, at the judgement seat, God alone will truly be able to judge men's hearts.

Rev 20:11 Then I saw a great white throne and him who was seated on it. From his presence earth and sky fled away, and no place was found for them.
Rev 20:12 And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. Then another book was opened, which is the book of life. And the dead were judged by what was written in the books, according to what they had done.
Rev 20:13 And the sea gave up the dead who were in it, Death and Hades gave up the dead who were in them, and they were judged, each one of them, according to what they had done.
Rev 20:14 Then Death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death, the lake of fire.
Rev 20:15 And if anyone's name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire. (ESV)

So it's a matter then of how one gets one's name into the book of life.

What is clear is that God judges us by what's in our heart and one doesn't have to be a Christian or previously a Jew to follow the truth that is inside of them. Jesus said that He was the way and the truth. By way I believe he meant as an example of Torah, which is God's instruction to Godly living. By Truth, I think he meant that he is all Truth. 2+2 = 4 is truth, but I think it's more than that. Truth is a way of living that brings about abundant life in line with the way God originally created us to live. Paul brings this out when he says that gentiles that dont have the law do what's in the law have obeyed the law. Why? Because truth it truth.

But Jesus also said that he is the life and that "No one comes to the Father except through me" (John 14:6, ESV) Note that he was also answering Thomas:

Joh 14:1 "Let not your hearts be troubled. Believe in God; believe also in me.
Joh 14:2 In my Father's house are many rooms. If it were not so, would I have told you that I go to prepare a place for you?
Joh 14:3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again and will take you to myself, that where I am you may be also.
Joh 14:4 And you know the way to where I am going."
Joh 14:5 Thomas said to him, "Lord, we do not know where you are going. How can we know the way?"
Joh 14:6 Jesus said to him, "I am the way, and the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me. (ESV)

I think the biggest problem with Christianity is that it's pushed that you have to believe in the idea of Jesus, yet living the "way" of Jesus is second fiddle. I think we've got it backward. Don't get me wrong, believing in Jesus is good news, and for many reasons.

Even then, people live and act based on that which they believe. I'm not sure we can put one before the other but I do agree that "living the 'way' of Jesus," which no doubt will get defined differently by different people, is not emphasized enough, if at all. There certainly are significant problems in Christianity these days.

 

[for_his_glory]

Before the Torah and the Bible, before the written laws that exposed our sin, before that of Adam and Eve who were created sinless, but sin found in them after disobedience all there was was God and his creation before man.

Now in the time of Adam and Eve and their children, there were no written laws, no Jesus, no Holy Spirit teaching them, no mention of Salvation from any Gospel or Pastor teaching them so did they all die and now destined to hell because they had no written word or a set of laws to expose their sin!

Maybe some, but I would say no for the most of them, because they heard the voice of God speaking to them through Gods creation just as those who are secluded in the world that have never heard the written word of God, but may known him through creation giving back to God by loving and taking care of their own villages as only God knows the intents of the heart.

There has been some very good scripture given to support these people will be saved from the fires of hell so I will add nothing more to what has already been presented and to just say only God knows who are his and who are we to judge whether they are heathens or not that are secluded from the rest of the world.

 

[jasoncran]

uh yeah, i can see what you are saying. uh duane what of all those lost men in the days of the torah whom never heard? that doesnt mean they are saved but we dont know. we cant say they are damned if they never heard. they must have a chance to deny him.

after the cross i doubt that to be a problem but before i dont know.

 

[SpagLard]

Now in the time of Adam and Eve and their children, there were no written laws, no Jesus, no Holy Spirit teaching them, no mention of Salvation from any Gospel or Pastor teaching them so did they all die and now destined to hell because they had no written word or a set of laws to expose their sin!

Good example !

The absence of the written word or spoken word does NOT rule out salvation.

It's in line with this..

"Therefore whoever hears these sayings of Mine, and does them, I will liken him to a wise man who built his house on the rock: and the rain descended, the floods came, and the winds blew and beat on that house; and it did not fall, for it was founded on the rock. But everyone who hears these sayings of Mine, and does not do them, will be like a foolish man who built his house on the sand: and the rain descended, the floods came, and the winds blew and beat on that house; and it fell. And great was its fall."

- Matthew 7:22-27

Is Christ speaking literally about the people present within earshot at that time?

or does he actually mention/imply everyone who (knowingly or unknowingly)
"hears" (knows in their heart) God and lives righteously ?

He says "whoever", and not
"solely those who call themselves (-insert denomination with the sole correct interpretation-) Christian in 2000 years from now" .

 

[handy]

It is important to keep in mind that, left without the Gospel.... most humans are not going to live righteous, honorable lives.

Adam and Eve were mentioned...

Now in the time of Adam and Eve and their children, there were no written laws, no Jesus, no Holy Spirit teaching them, no mention of Salvation from any Gospel or Pastor teaching them so did they all die and now destined to hell because they had no written word or a set of laws to expose their sin!

So, without written laws, Jesus, the Holy Spirit, mention of salvation and any gospel... how did the folks then live?

Badly enough that in a few generations, "... the Lord saw that the wickedness of man was great on the earth, and that every intent of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually."

Having the Scriptures, having the Gospel, having the Law is a tremendous blessing, because when we have these things, we are much more likely to heed God.

If the folks who live and die without ever hearing the gospel are judged according to their works... they are not going to measure up. However, if they did indeed "grope in the dark" after God, there is are very good indications that Jesus will take that into consideration when judging them.

John 8:32, you mentioned Romans 11... I truly don't think that passage is applicable here. SpagLard is referring to those who have never heard of the God of the Bible, His laws and His gospel. Romans 11 is referring to the Israelites who have rejected the promised Messiah.