Is Christ coming in our life time or is it history

[JLB]

Here is the verse I was referring to. " Luke 21:32 .... "this generation shall not pass away until ALL be fulfilled" The word "ALL" refers to everything spoken in this discourse.

32 Assuredly, I say to you, this generation will by no means pass away till all things take place.

What things take place?

25 "And there will be signs in the sun, in the moon, and in the stars; and on the earth distress of nations, with perplexity, the sea and the waves roaring; 26 men's hearts failing them from fear and the expectation of those things which are coming on the earth, for the powers of heaven will be shaken. 27 Then they will see the Son of Man coming in a cloud with power and great glory.

The generation that sees the events that He listed, This generation will see the Son of Man coming in the clouds...


I will bet I have said this 100 times to you in the last few months.

I will not answer this question from you again!


JLB

 

[Deborah13]

24 And they will fall by the edge of the sword, and be led away captive into all nations. And Jerusalem will be trampled by Gentiles until the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled.

I'm going to ask you the same thing I was asked.

Who does the NT say is Israel? Who is a true Jew? According to scripture.

So who is a Gentile but the opposite of a true Jew?

Who is the vine, who are the branches?

I would have to ask you to give a scripture in question, then I will discuss the scripture you give.


Thanks JLB

All scripture is quoted from Young's Literal Translation

Romans 9:6
But it is not as though the word of God has failed. For they are not allIsrael who are descended from Israel;
Romans 2:28 For he is not aJew who is one outwardly, nor is circumcision that which is outward in the flesh.

So who is a gentile and who is Israel, in these scriptures?

 

[Brother Mike]

There is much I am not "airtight" with!

Lol, Sounds like a guilty conscience to me...........

This repeating myself is getting old, this is SO SIMPLE! (I don't know how many ways I can ask this?)

Question: If the "things" in Luke 21 cover a period of nearly 2000 years (destruction of Jerusalem-70ad.....to.....the Son of Man coming in the clouds-2013 if he came this year), how can a single generation (this generation) "see" both events before dying?

how can it be so simple and yet nobody get it................

It's one or two things.

Trinity concept they want you to 1x1x1=1 I would not hire anyone if they did math this way. If I asked them to count inventory I would always be told I have one of everything.

It seems real simple to me that the way the concept is written in several different versions of it does not make any sense at all. It's also why all versions add (It's a mystery) The Baptist said the human mind being finite can not understand the concept. If that be true then how the heck you come up with it???? Hello, Hello, Is anyone home???

Now this Generational thing......... Simple. Can't possible be 2000 years. No way Hose.

So like the Trinity concept your taking a (Doctrine) and trying to make something that don't make sense. We have to defend the doctrine at all cost.

Or

You don't actually see it without a doctrine, but it's actually what you personally see.

I have a WOF doctrine. I know that, so I understand I am going to have some things blocking my view of what is true. So I revert to having to line all scripture up knowing my view is tainted.

I will look at it again. I am trying to see "That generation" as having passed, but I have not seen something worse than the flood hit as we still have people walking around. I am having issues with some other scriptures here.

JBL, there is a pre-trib...... so HA..........


Blessings
Mike.

 

[JLB]

24 And they will fall by the edge of the sword, and be led away captive into all nations. And Jerusalem will be trampled by Gentiles until the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled.

I'm going to ask you the same thing I was asked.

Who does the NT say is Israel? Who is a true Jew? According to scripture.

So who is a Gentile but the opposite of a true Jew?

Who is the vine, who are the branches?

I would have to ask you to give a scripture in question, then I will discuss the scripture you give.


Thanks JLB

All scripture is quoted from Young's Literal Translation

Romans 9:6
But it is not as though the word of God has failed. For they are not allIsrael who are descended from Israel;
Romans 2:28 For he is not aJew who is one outwardly, nor is circumcision that which is outward in the flesh.

So who is a gentile and who is Israel, in these scriptures?

In Romans 9:6 - I don't see any reference to Gentiles.

Romans 2:28 - I don't see any reference to Gentiles in this scripture.



And they will fall by the edge of the sword, and be led away captive into all nations. And Jerusalem will be trampled by Gentiles until the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled.

In this scripture a Gentile would be anyone who is not a Jew.


JLB

 

[Deborah13]

In Romans 9:6 - I don't see any reference to Gentiles.

Romans 2:28 - I don't see any reference to Gentiles in this scripture.



And they will fall by the edge of the sword, and be led away captive into all nations. And Jerusalem will be trampled by Gentiles until the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled.

In this scripture a Gentile would be anyone who is not a Jew.

JLB, I feel like you are evading the questions but let me restate them.

In the two scriptures I gave that you asked for.....

Who is defined as Israel? or what is the description of Israel?

Who is defined as a Jew? or what is the description of a Jew?

Thanks

 

[Sinthesis]

One of the problems we have in understanding who/what is Israel, or even a Jew, is that the NT has the difficult task of explaining and correcting all the misconceptions that can be derived from the OT. As such the NT has to condescend to use the language and terms of the OT. However, in the context of a world that has been irrevocably changed by Christ, the meanings of the language and terms must also change to arrive at the significance of the Gospel. This is why Christians can see Jesus' shadow all throughout the OT, whereas today's spiritual Jews do not.

The terms Israel and Jew are used to identify a division in the whole. Thus any time they are used, the other part of the whole should be kept in mind to identify the contrast, and thus meaning of Israel within context. For example, Israel may be contrasted with Gentiles, Jews, Jacob, Esau, Judah, Judaism, Joseph, Egypt, Pharaoh, Babylon, Canaan, Assyria, Rome, etc., and in either a physical(fleshy), or symbolic(spiritual) way.

 

[Hope of glory]

Here is the verse I was referring to. " Luke 21:32 .... "this generation shall not pass away until ALL be fulfilled" The word "ALL" refers to everything spoken in this discourse.

32 Assuredly, I say to you, this generation will by no means pass away till all things take place.

What things take place?

25 "And there will be signs in the sun, in the moon, and in the stars; and on the earth distress of nations, with perplexity, the sea and the waves roaring; 26 men's hearts failing them from fear and the expectation of those things which are coming on the earth, for the powers of heaven will be shaken. 27 Then they will see the Son of Man coming in a cloud with power and great glory.

The generation that sees the events that He listed, This generation will see the Son of Man coming in the clouds...

I will bet I have said this 100 times to you in the last few months.

I will not answer this question from you again!


JLB

JLB

"All things" in Luke 21:32 refers to more than just the signs of verse 25-26.
Don't worry, I wont be asking you any more questions, you have proved that you do not have the answers.
You have still not refuted my argument, and won't!

Blessings

 

[Brother Mike]

JLB

"All things" in Luke 21:32 refers to more than just the signs of verse 25-26.
Don't worry, I wont be asking you any more questions, you have proved that you do not have the answers.
You have still not refuted my argument, and won't!

Blessings

Just the scripture where this temple was destroyed, and there were Earthquakes and Titus or his dog came to destroy some temple? One taken, one left were by the Roman armies. Some were Christians who in the next verse were warned you don't know the day your master comes, but I guess Titus came instead............. A generation 40 years.........30-35 Greek a temple of some sort was destroyed.

Revelation written around 96ad? Before 70ad. It's to convenient to be missing that connecting scripture and the sun and stars get whipped away. I guess some got left. God run out of writers to show what Jesus said in that generation came to pass?

Just the scripture Hope In Glory and I am with you all the way.

Mike.

 

[Hope of glory]

Here is the verse I was referring to. " Luke 21:32 .... "this generation shall not pass away until ALL be fulfilled" The word "ALL" refers to everything spoken in this discourse.

32 Assuredly, I say to you, this generation will by no means pass away till all things take place.

What things take place?

25 "And there will be signs in the sun, in the moon, and in the stars; and on the earth distress of nations, with perplexity, the sea and the waves roaring; 26 men's hearts failing them from fear and the expectation of those things which are coming on the earth, for the powers of heaven will be shaken. 27 Then they will see the Son of Man coming in a cloud with power and great glory.

The generation that sees the events that He listed, This generation will see the Son of Man coming in the clouds...


I will bet I have said this 100 times to you in the last few months.

I will not answer this question from you again!


JLB

JLB you said: "What things take place?"

Answer: Just read the verse!
"32 Assuredly, I say to you, this generation will by no means pass away till ALL THINGS take place."

Quite amusing how you interpret ALL THINGS as only verses 25-26......LOL!

 

[JLB]

In Romans 9:6 - I don't see any reference to Gentiles.

Romans 2:28 - I don't see any reference to Gentiles in this scripture.



And they will fall by the edge of the sword, and be led away captive into all nations. And Jerusalem will be trampled by Gentiles until the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled.

In this scripture a Gentile would be anyone who is not a Jew.

JLB, I feel like you are evading the questions but let me restate them.

In the two scriptures I gave that you asked for.....

Who is defined as Israel? or what is the description of Israel?

Who is defined as a Jew? or what is the description of a Jew?

Thanks

Ok, Now those are different questions.

Who is defined as Israel? - Romans 9:6
But it is not as though the word of God has failed. For they are not all Israel who are descended from Israel;

Who is defined as Israel?

Based on the scripture of Romans 9:6, and only Romans 9:6 which states - 6 But it is not that the word of God has taken no effect. For they are not all Israel who are of Israel,

My answer would be: The children of God. The reference to "Israel" in this verse is a reference to the Children of God.

Romans 2:28 For he is not a Jew who is one outwardly, nor is circumcision that which is outward in the flesh.

Who is defined as a Jew?

Answer: A Jew is one who is defined as ; A Jew inwardly.


JLB

 

[JLB]

Here is the verse I was referring to. " Luke 21:32 .... "this generation shall not pass away until ALL be fulfilled" The word "ALL" refers to everything spoken in this discourse.

32 Assuredly, I say to you, this generation will by no means pass away till all things take place.

What things take place?

25 "And there will be signs in the sun, in the moon, and in the stars; and on the earth distress of nations, with perplexity, the sea and the waves roaring; 26 men's hearts failing them from fear and the expectation of those things which are coming on the earth, for the powers of heaven will be shaken. 27 Then they will see the Son of Man coming in a cloud with power and great glory.

The generation that sees the events that He listed, This generation will see the Son of Man coming in the clouds...

I will bet I have said this 100 times to you in the last few months.

I will not answer this question from you again!


JLB

JLB

"All things" in Luke 21:32 refers to more than just the signs of verse 25-26.
Don't worry, I wont be asking you any more questions, you have proved that you do not have the answers.
You have still not refuted my argument, and won't!

Blessings

31 So you also, when you see these things happening, know that the kingdom of God is near. 32 Assuredly, I say to you, this generation will by no means pass away till all things take place.



Luke 21:32 things in this verse is the same as things in the previous verse 31, which states that the things that you see, which are listed as the signs that Jesus gave:

The signs that Jesus gave us, to let us know when He was about to Return are as listed:

25 "And there will be signs in the sun, in the moon, and in the stars; and on the earth distress of nations, with perplexity, the sea and the waves roaring; 26 men's hearts failing them from fear and the expectation of those things which are coming on the earth, for the powers of heaven will be shaken. 27 Then they will see the Son of Man coming in a cloud with power and great glory. 28 Now when these things begin to happen, look up and lift up your heads, because your redemption draws near."


Again for the 101st time, these things is a reference to the things that will be seen, by those who will also see the Son of Man coming in the clouds.


JLB

 

[Hope of glory]

JLB

"All things" in Luke 21:32 refers to more than just the signs of verse 25-26.
Don't worry, I wont be asking you any more questions, you have proved that you do not have the answers.
You have still not refuted my argument, and won't!

Blessings

Just the scripture where this temple was destroyed, and there were Earthquakes and Titus or his dog came to destroy some temple? One taken, one left were by the Roman armies. Some were Christians who in the next verse were warned you don't know the day your master comes, but I guess Titus came instead............. A generation 40 years.........30-35 Greek a temple of some sort was destroyed.

Revelation written around 96ad? Before 70ad. It's to convenient to be missing that connecting scripture and the sun and stars get whipped away. I guess some got left. God run out of writers to show what Jesus said in that generation came to pass?

Just the scripture Hope In Glory and I am with you all the way.

Mike.

Brother Mike
Please state the verses which you are struggling to see fulfilled by 70 ad one at a time.
I will do my best by the Holy Ghost to bring understanding.

Blessings

 

[Deborah13]

Ok, Now those are different questions.

Who is defined as Israel?

Based on the scripture of Romans 9:6, and only Romans 9:6 which states - 6 But it is not that the word of God has taken no effect. For they are not all Israel who are of Israel,

My answer would be: The children of God. The reference to "Israel" in this verse is a reference to the Children of God.

Romans 2:28 For he is not a Jew who is one outwardly, nor is circumcision that which is outward in the flesh.

Who is defined as a Jew?

Answer: A Jew is one who is defined as ; A Jew inwardly.


JLB

Thank you. I agree.

 

[Hope of glory]

Here is the verse I was referring to. " Luke 21:32 .... "this generation shall not pass away until ALL be fulfilled" The word "ALL" refers to everything spoken in this discourse.

32 Assuredly, I say to you, this generation will by no means pass away till all things take place.

What things take place?

25 "And there will be signs in the sun, in the moon, and in the stars; and on the earth distress of nations, with perplexity, the sea and the waves roaring; 26 men's hearts failing them from fear and the expectation of
those things which are coming on the earth, for the powers of heaven will be shaken. 27 Then they will see the Son of Man coming in a cloud with power and great glory.

The generation that sees the events that He listed, This generation will see the Son of Man coming in the clouds...

I will bet I have said this 100 times to you in the last few months.

I will not answer this question from you again!


JLB

JLB

"All things" in Luke 21:32 refers to more than just the signs of verse 25-26.
Don't worry, I wont be asking you any more questions, you have proved that you do not have the answers.
You have still not refuted my argument, and won't!

Blessings

31 So you also, when you see these things happening, know that the kingdom of God is near. 32 Assuredly, I say to you, this generation
will by no means pass away till all
things take place.



Luke 21:32 things in this verse is the same as things in the previous verse 31, which states that the things that you see, which are listed as the signs that Jesus gave:

The signs that Jesus gave us, to let us know when He was about to Return are as listed:

25 "And there will be signs in the sun, in the moon, and in the stars; and on the earth distress of nations, with perplexity, the sea and the waves roaring; 26 men's hearts failing them from fear and the expectation of those things which are coming on the earth, for the powers of heaven will be shaken. 27 Then they will see the Son of Man coming in a cloud with power and great glory. 28 Now when these things begin to happen, look up and lift up your heads, because your redemption draws near."

Again for the 101st time, these things is a reference to the things that will be seen, by those who will also see the Son of Man coming in the clouds.


JLB

JLB
you said: "Again for the 101st time, these things is a reference to the things that will be seen, by those who will also see the Son of Man coming in the clouds."

Luke 21:20 "When you shall SEE Jerusalem compassed with armies...."
So you agree, those (the generation) who SAW Jerusalem surrounded by armies also SAW the Son of Man coming in the clouds"
Amen brother!

JLB, for the 102nd tome, you can't separate verse 20 from "these things" (v31)
You can't separate verse 20 from "all" (v32)
The surrounding and destruction of Jerusalem was SEEN......no getting around it!

Hope of glory

 

[Brother Mike]

Brother Mike
Please state the verses which you are struggling to see fulfilled by 70 ad one at a time.
I will do my best by the Holy Ghost to bring understanding.

Just the verse that connects the temple Jesus was talking about being destroyed and who destroyed it.

JBL was not able to find it, Your airtight!!! Woot, so I know you have it.

Blessings
Mike.

 

[reba]

Mat 24:1 And Jesus went out, and departed from the temple: and his disciples came to him for to shew him the buildings of the temple.
Mat 24:2 And Jesus said unto them, See ye not all these things? verily I say unto you, There shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down.

 

[JLB]

The surrounding and destruction of Jerusalem was SEEN......no getting around it!

20 "But when you see Jerusalem surrounded by armies, then know that its desolation is near.

Where is the word destruction in verse 20?

Where is the language of "destruction of the city and sanctuary" in Luke 21.


JLB

 

[Hope of glory]

The surrounding and destruction of Jerusalem was SEEN......no getting around it!

20 "But when you see Jerusalem surrounded by armies, then know that its desolation is near.

Where is the word destruction in verse 20?

Where is the language of "destruction of the city and sanctuary" in Luke 21.

JLB

JLB you asked: "Where is the language of "destruction of the city and sanctuary" in Luke 21."

Answer:

Verse 5-6 "And as some spake of the TEMPLE, how it was adorned with goodly stones and gifts he said, as for these things which Ye behold, the days will come, in the which there shall not be left one stone upon another, that shall not be THROWN DOWN"

The words "THROWN DOWN is the Greek word "kataluo" which means......"to dissolve, disunity, TO DESTROY to break up, to demolish, overthrow"

Jesus, speaking of the TEMPLE said that every stone would be "thrown down" (DESTROYED)

Verse 20 "But when you see JERUSALEM surrounded by armies, then know that its DESOLATION is near."
The word DESOLATE is the greek word "eremosis" which means......"a making desolate,
a desolation".

It's root word is "eremoo" which means....."to make desolate, to lay waste, TO RUIN, bring to desolation, to despoil one, to strip of ones treasures"

Jesus speaking of Jerusalem, said that those who SAW it's surrounding would know that it's "desolation" (IT'S LAYING WASTE, IT'S RUIN)

If that's not good enough, the word "ruin" and it root mean....."to rend asunder, a breach, to break up, TO DASH DOWN, TO TEAR IN PEICES"

This is the "language" of the destruction of the city and the sanctuary (temple) which you asked for!

JLB, for the 102nd tome, you can't separate verse 20 from "these things" (v31)
You can't separate verse 20 from "all" (v32)
The " surrounding " and "destruction" (desolation) of Jerusalem was SEEN......no getting
around it!

The same generation which SAW Jerusalems destruction also SAW Jesus "coming in the clouds".

This "coming of the Lord" scripture (v32), obviously does not speak of Jesus' future bodily return. You have been shown why in my posts.
In the same way, I have shown how Math.26:64 (another "coming of the Lord" scripture) also does not refer to Jesus' future return......remember JLB?.....You still have not given me a scripture which says that Ciaphas SAW Jesus' coming in the clouds in a vision or by
the Spirit! (And you gave me your word you would)......all you have said is "well...he could have seen....".

JLB, I don't understand your reluctancy to admit that not all "coming of the Lord" scriptures refer to hid future return. This understanding does not compromise the truth of His future return, I fully believe he will return, as do you. What this understanding does do it that it opens one up to revelation of the mystery of "Christ In us"......the revealing of the corporate Christ in the earth.....many Sons, yet all as One!

Blessings brother

 

[Hope of glory]

Brother Mike
Please state the verses which you are struggling to see fulfilled by 70 ad one at a time.
I will do my best by the Holy Ghost to bring understanding.

Just the verse that connects the temple Jesus was talking about being destroyed and who destroyed it.

JBL was not able to find it, Your airtight!!! Woot, so I know you have it.

Blessings
Mike.

Brother Mike

See my post 358 to JLB to understand "the verse that connects the temple Jesus was talking about being destroyed"

Concerning "who destroyed it"?
All historical sources say Rome, in 70ad.

This is the simplicity of these things.

(I know you already see Math.26:64 as "not a future fulfillment", you have said so)

So why the "reluctancy" to see Luke 21 the same also?
(I'm not being pushy, I say this in all sincerity and curiosity)

Blessings

 

[Brother Mike]

All historical sources say Rome, in 70ad.

The Histor---------------what? Like the History Channel?

I see your point........... This generation and we want to just take that and stretch it into 2000 years in some magical way. The only way to see if it's the same temple in Dan 9, Luke 21 if it is a temple in Dan 9 is from the History channel though. I think the History channel also had something about Jesus bones in a box......... ewwwwww......

We have Jesus, in Luke 21 talking about the Olive Garden courses. Them folks were talking about the temple all Bling, bling, and Jesus said not one stone will be left. I assume He meant that temple.
Now, I have to go back to Dan 9 and figure out if there is even a temple in there as the Word Sanctuary means holy place and decided if it's the one Jesus was talking about in Luke 21

I asked for the Scripture about who destroyed it and when. The scripture is "Watch the History Channel"

I have heard about Rome and Titus coming in to destroy the temple in 70ad. I also heard about the Middle East coming in and destroying the temple. both arguments sound reasonable enough for history.

Luk 21:10 Then said he unto them, Nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom:
Luk 21:11 And great earthquakes shall be in divers places, and famines, and pestilences; and fearful sights and great signs shall there be from heaven.

It seems our Airtight proof rides on the...... cough..... cough... History Channel.

No problem. Those verses above look a whole lot like seals to me. Just the "History of these signs wonders and famines from Heaven recorded in some History text will be fine." I will need all that Jesus mentioned, earthquakes and everything tied to the coming of Rome to destroy the temple. I have not found it yet, but I am sure you have it ready. I am willing to look at ...... cough.... the History Channel if some Historian has recorded these amazing events together.

Being Airtight. I know you have it Brother...... 2000 years for that generation to happen sounds crazy, right?

Get me the....... sigh...... History.

Blessings.
Mike.