The Holy Trinity vs. Salvation

[Guest]

I have a really good question everyone, possibly a groundbreaking revelation. Help me out with this one. Regardless if we think that the Holy Trinity is One God manifesting himself into three different ways or One God manifesting himself into three different persons, at the end of the day why does that matter as long as our way to salvation is the same. Romans 10:9 - What is your belief on how to obtain salvation in this lifetime, to be born again of the Holy Spirit and His Word? Think about it, is people's confusion about the Holy Trinity stopping them from obtaining salvation? It has been debated upon and fought over throughout the centuries of who God, the Holy Spirit and Jesus are. Regardless if we think that Oneness Trinity or Non-Oneness is true, does it even matter if we don't even know what salvation is?

 

[JLB]

3 Jesus answered and said to him, "Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God." John 3:3

First a person must be born again, THEN they are ready to "see".

Like a child in his mothers womb cannot see until he has been born, then after he is cleaned off there is still a time period for him to "open his eyes" and begin to perceive the world around him.
To understand the things of God's kingdom requires that the Holy Spirit lead and guide you into all truth.

Without the Holy Spirit, a person will remain in darkness.

It is no wonder the enemy desires to keep people ignorant of the Holy Spirit.

You are right on. First a person must be "Born Again".

Which by the way has nothing to do with Baptism in water.


JLB

 

[Danus]

For those in the grace of God the understanding is clear and without question.

 

[gr8grace]

I have a really good question everyone, possibly a groundbreaking revelation. Help me out with this one. Regardless if we think that the Holy Trinity is One God manifesting himself into three different ways or One God manifesting himself into three different persons, at the end of the day why does that matter as long as our way to salvation is the same. Romans 10:9 - What is your belief on how to obtain salvation in this lifetime, to be born again of the Holy Spirit and His Word? Think about it, is people's confusion about the Holy Trinity stopping them from obtaining salvation? It has been debated upon and fought over throughout the centuries of who God, the Holy Spirit and Jesus are. Regardless if we think that Oneness Trinity or Non-Oneness is true, does it even matter if we don't even know what salvation is?

Hi Urk,

The more I study Bible doctrine the more I have a solid belief that God will be MORE successful than not in 1 Tim 2:4 and 2 Pet 3:9. He is God and that is His desire. The more I get to know Him through His word the more I am convinced that even Rom 10:9 is taken out of context, Paul was talking to his Jewish racial brothers that were TEACHING the Jewish traditions. So Paul was addressing people who were CONFESSING with their mouths a FALSE way to salvation. they Needed to BELIEVE and start teaching and CONFESSING to their listeners THE CHRIST.

I believe that if a person believes that God sent His Son(Christ) to pay for their sins, God will save that person.

A unbeliever can NOT understand anymore than that! It is only after salvation do we have the opportunity to learn more of that plan. That is why God made it so easy to Get saved, God knows that as a unbeliever we cannot understand any of His complexities until we have His Spirit.

Acts 16:31;John 3:18;John 6:40;John 3:15;John 20:31 Justification.

The reason it seems so convoluted these days because men have the choice to follow religion or stay in carnality after they get saved. And true Bible doctrine is a hard thing to come by these days.

This is Just my opinion, but I think that we will see more people Raptured out of the local taverns than we will see out of our churches. Because the way to be saved is faith alone in Christ alone and most churches do not teach that. And the person who truly got saved gets fed up with religion and goes back to the tavern. (this is kind of tongue in cheek, but I would not be suprised)

 

[Deborah13]

Because the way to be saved is faith alone in Christ alone and most churches do not teach that. And the person who truly got saved gets fed up with religion and goes back to the tavern. (this is kind of tongue in cheek, but I would not be suprised)

I know someone that this is exactly what happened (not the tavern) but they just came to the conclusion that they could never be good enough.
Their doctrine was through grace, by faith + works.
Fortunately the Lord was of another mind and after many years the Holy Spirit brought them back and revealed to them the Truth of the Gospel of Christ.

 

[Guest]

JLB, yes that is correct. Some might say being born of water is actually our first physical birth as a baby, but only through our belief and confessing do we obtain salvation through Jesus Christ; to be born again of the spirit. Danus, blessings friend. God draws us in through his grace and love, but not without us asking, seeking and knocking at the same speed. If I'm wrong, please discern truth. Matthew 7:7 - Jarrod, that's precisely right, the unbeliever who has decided to believe and confess isn't quite sure what he is believing and confessing in just yet. He must wait on the Holy Spirit to come to him, in God's good timing. Belief and Faith are synonyms of each other before salvation, but only after salvation does believing and faith turn to the Holy Spirit and the Word of God. I don't think it's even possible to be religious after salvation, because after God has revealed his love, mercy, peace unto you then it is no longer from a religious order. It's bigger than that because how is a God loving us first before we loved him religious. I don't think the saved necessarily follow religion after salvation, rather they are not thirsty to grow in his spirit and his Word; walking in the spirit and being thirsty for knowledge. We should pray on that.

Ok, so here's the big question. Is God the Father and Jesus the same person/being, or is Romans 10:9 referring just to the nature of God? If a person is believing and confessing, are they believing and confessing that Jesus is in fact God the Father or does it mean that Jesus is only a part of God. Jesus is God deity but not actually God the Father. Another way to put it is that yes, we believe that God the Father raised Jesus from the dead, but only through salvation do we understand that God the Father doesn't send himself to you rather he sends his Holy Spirit to you. Help me discern. Better yet, without using scripture what does everyone think? If you would like to use scripture, please feel free.

Could we be persecuting our brothers and sisters in Christ just because our meaning behind the Holy Trinity is different, or can we discern false prophets through the meaning of salvation.

 

[iLOVE]

Jesus sits on the right hand of God.
So then after the Lord had spoken unto them, he was received up into heaven, and sat on the right hand of God. Mark 16:19

The Second Coming Jesus returns to the Earth. After the Millennium all things on earth will be made new. God will then join Jesus. God will change His Headquarters from Heaven to Earth.

The Son eternally comes from the Father and they share Spirit. All three act together.

The Son is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation. Colossians 1:15

 

[Sinthesis]

One Being revealed in three Persons is difficult to accept. Not accepting God as He has revealed Himself to us because we don't understand the Trinity afflicts many.

 

[Free]

Ok, so here's the big question. Is God the Father and Jesus the same person/being, or is Romans 10:9 referring just to the nature of God?

The Father and the Son are not the same person but are the same being. Rom 10:9 is speaking of the nature of the Son as God as it relates to salvation.

If a person is believing and confessing, are they believing and confessing that Jesus is in fact God the Father or does it mean that Jesus is only a part of God. Jesus is God deity but not actually God the Father.

That is a question that has more than just those answers and can only be answered by every individual. Only each individual knows what they are believing and confessing.

 

[iLOVE]

Jesus sits on the right hand of God.
So then after the Lord had spoken unto them, he was received up into heaven, and sat on the right hand of God. Mark 16:19

The Second Coming Jesus returns to the Earth. After the Millennium all things on earth will be made new. God will then join Jesus. God will change His Headquarters from Heaven to Earth.

The Son eternally comes from the Father and they share Spirit. All three act together.

The Son is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation. Colossians 1:15

Not only is Jesus the exact reproduction of the Father. This means Jesus is the Creator of all things! Colossians 1:15

 

[Deborah13]

God = Strong's #2316 - theos -
the Godhead, trinity
a) God the Father, the first person in the trinity

b) Christ, the second person of the trinity

c) Holy Spirit, the third person in the trinity

3) spoken of the only and true God

a) refers to the things of God

b) his counsels, interests, things due to him

4) whatever can in any respect be likened unto God, or resemble him in any way

Romans 10:9

King James Version (KJV) words in [] are my understanding

9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that [ the supernatural power of] God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

I used to do, what I now see as a mistake, that when I saw GOD I thought Father.
Jesus is literally God come in the flesh not just His essence or nature but actually one third of God. As in God's body (flesh form) or part.
Just my way of understanding.

 

[iLOVE]

No need to guess...the Word of God is crystal clear.

 

[Guest]

The Father and the Son are not the same person but are the same being. Rom 10:9 is speaking of the nature of the Son as God as it relates to salvation.

Now this makes more sense. Nobody can see God the Father face to face and live. This is why he sends his Holy Spirit to us as a gift, in a way he sends a part of himself to us with the characteristics of who he is. We're talking about God the Father here, Jesus was praying to God the Father for power and wisdom etc..maybe oneness trinity is just Christians being arrogant about what they believe in, maybe.

That is a question that has more than just those answers and can only be answered by every individual. Only each individual knows what they are believing and confessing.

But in a sense aren't we all believing and confessing that Jesus is God deity/nature? I bet every person that has come to salvation preaches love, mercy and peace. That's my understanding. I would like to here more about people's salvation or what they felt on the day or night they were saved. How can we forget such a thing. God the Father reveals himself as a spirit only after salvation. John 4:24

Not only is Jesus the exact reproduction of the Father. This means Jesus is the Creator of all things! Colossians 1:15

You mean Jesus is the Creator of all things only through God the Father being omnipotent, omniscient and omnipresent? Does anybody know if we will actually see God the Father face to face when we are in heaven?

 

[iLOVE]

Now this makes more sense. Nobody can see God the Father face to face and live. This is why he sends his Holy Spirit to us as a gift, in a way he sends a part of himself to us with the characteristics of who he is. We're talking about God the Father here, Jesus was praying to God the Father for power and wisdom etc..maybe oneness trinity is just Christians being arrogant about what they believe in, maybe.



But in a sense aren't we all believing and confessing that Jesus is God deity/nature? I bet every person that has come to salvation preaches love, mercy and peace. That's my understanding. I would like to here more about people's salvation or what they felt on the day or night they were saved. How can we forget such a thing. God the Father reveals himself as a spirit only after salvation. John 4:24



You mean Jesus is the Creator of all things only through God the Father being omnipotent, omniscient and omnipresent? Does anybody know if we will actually see God the Father face to face when we are in heaven?

Although such passages as Exodus 33:11, Numbers 14:14, and Deuteronomy 5:4 refer to speaking with God “face to face,” it is obvious in light of other Scripture passages that the eternal, omnipresent Spirit who is the Creator of all things does not have a face. Because God wanted us to know Him personally, He revealed Himself in human form. God has literally shown us His “face” in the person of Jesus Christ. In Colossians, we read:

I do believe when we return to heaven as Spirit we see God's face who looks like Jesus Christ.

 

[Guest]

Although such passages as Exodus 33:11, Numbers 14:14, and Deuteronomy 5:4 refer to speaking with God “face to face,†it is obvious in light of other Scripture passages that the eternal, omnipresent Spirit who is the Creator of all things does not have a face. Because God wanted us to know Him personally, He revealed Himself in human form. God has literally shown us His “face†in the person of Jesus Christ. In Colossians, we read:

I do believe when we return to heaven as Spirit we see God's face who looks like Jesus Christ.

Very interesting iLOVE, yes God the Father is a spirit that does not take on a human form. John 4:24 - So if Jesus is sitting at the right hand of God, who is sitting in God's seat. Spirit looks like spirit, flesh looks like flesh. When I say we cannot see God face to face and live meaning that we cannot see God in all of his power, glory and wisdom sitting at the left hand of Jesus. If anybody has scripture to discern, please help. Who exactly is God the Father in all his power, glory and wisdom?

If what you say is true iLOVE, why can we not believe that Jesus is in fact God the Father? Is it because God the Father's power, glory and wisdom is separate from Jesus the Son. If that is true then wow!!..God the Father is truly omnipotent, omniscient and omnipresent. We should all be so humble.

 

[JLB]

If you think about the fact that Jesus was The Son, before He became flesh.

He is creator of all things, as the Son.


JLB

 

[Danus]

To me, God is reveled to us in the person of Jesus Christ. His spirit lives and works in the lives of those who welcome it into their hearts.

 

[for_his_glory]

The trinity has everything to do with Gods salvation, but the lack of understanding the trinity should never stop anyone from receiving Gods free gift of grace. Jesus said he is the door and if any man enter in he shall be saved. Nothing there about having to understand trinity first. The word was made flesh and dwelt among us. No trinity teaching there. Jesus said that he was the only way, the only truth and the life that no man could come to the Father except by him. Once again nothing there about any trinity. How do we get saved, by confessing Jesus and believing God raised him from the dead and once we do believe this we are saved. Faith the size of a mustard seed to believe in Jesus and through confessing we are a sinner needing Gods free gift of grace we repent, Jesus forgives and the Father gives us a renewed life through Christ as we are now made righteous through that of Gods righteousness bestowed upon us.

John 10:9 I am the door, if any man enter in, he shall be saved.
John 1:14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.
John 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto
the Father, but by me.

Romans 10:9, 10 if thou shall confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shall believe in his heart that God has raised him from the dead thou shall be saved. Vs.10 for with the heart man believeth unto righteousness and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

It is not by our works or good deeds that save us for if that was all it would take then Gods word would be made void in our lives and Jesus would have died in vain, but because we are all sinners, it is by Gods grace and mercy that forgives our sins and washes us clean by the atoning blood of the Lamb (Jesus) so we can be made renewed again and free from our old sin nature.

Ephesians 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
Ephesians 2:9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

Titus 3:5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;
Titus 3:6 Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Savior;
Titus 3:7 That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.

 

[Guest]

The trinity has everything to do with Gods salvation, but the lack of understanding the trinity should never stop anyone from receiving Gods free gift of grace. Jesus said he is the door and if any man enter in he shall be saved. Nothing there about having to understand trinity first. The word was made flesh and dwelt among us. No trinity teaching there. Jesus said that he was the only way, the only truth and the life that no man could come to the Father except by him. Once again nothing there about any trinity. How do we get saved, by confessing Jesus and believing God raised him from the dead and once we do believe this we are saved. Faith the size of a mustard seed to believe in Jesus and through confessing we are a sinner needing Gods free gift of grace we repent, Jesus forgives and the Father gives us a renewed life through Christ as we are now made righteous through that of Gods righteousness bestowed upon us.

It is not by our works or good deeds that save us for if that was all it would take then Gods word would be made void in our lives and Jesus would have died in vain, but because we are all sinners, it is by Gods grace and mercy that forgives our sins and washes us clean by the atoning blood of the Lamb (Jesus) so we can be made renewed again and free from our old sin nature.

Blessings!

 

[Free]

Now this makes more sense. Nobody can see God the Father face to face and live. This is why he sends his Holy Spirit to us as a gift, in a way he sends a part of himself to us with the characteristics of who he is. We're talking about God the Father here, Jesus was praying to God the Father for power and wisdom etc..maybe oneness trinity is just Christians being arrogant about what they believe in, maybe.

We need to be careful here as there isn't the Trinity and a "Oneness Trinity." There is the Trinity and there is Oneness; Oneness is opposed to the Trinity.

But in a sense aren't we all believing and confessing that Jesus is God deity/nature?

No, not necessarily. As I said, people believe and confess all sorts of ideas about God. Some confess Jesus as God but not the Father, some confess Jesus as God the Father, and some confess Jesus as a created being, a lesser god, and some confess him as a mere man.

God the Father reveals himself as a spirit only after salvation. John 4:24

That is not what that verse states.