YHWH: the Father's Name, and the Son's Name

[Gregg]

Zec 2:8-11 KJV
(8)For thus saith the LORD of hosts; After the glory hath He sent Me unto the nations which spoiled you: for he that toucheth you toucheth the apple of His eye.
(9) For, behold, I will shake Mine hand upon them, and they shall be a spoil to their servants: and ye shall know that the LORD of hosts hath sent Me.
(10) Sing and rejoice, O daughter of Zion: for, lo, I come, and I will dwell in the midst of thee, saith the LORD.
(11) And many nations shall be joined to the LORD in that day, and shall be My people: and I will dwell in the midst of thee, and thou shalt know that the LORD of hosts hath sent Me unto thee.

The One sent is the LORD of hosts. v8, 10
The One sending is the LORD of hosts. v9

The Sent One and the One sending both have the Name LORD of hosts.

I propose that these verses are about God the Father who sent His Son, the LORD Jesus Christ.

 

[follower]

good. that's most likely. Yhwh is Abba(Father), and Yeshua the Son is sent by Abba.
these particular verses look like that's what they are about.
in english, it is sometimes very very hard, if not impossible to tell.

(not a worry, actually, for those abiding in Yeshua; we trust Yhwh in Yeshua for all things, and our faith is not in man's interpretations.)

 

[chessman]

Zechariah 2:1 (KJV)
2 I lifted up mine eyes again, and looked, and behold a man with a measuring line in his hand.

Revelation 21:15 (KJV)
15 And he that talked with me had a golden reed to measure the city, and the gates thereof, and the wall thereof.

5 And the one seated on the throne said, “
6 And he said to me, “It is done! I am the Alpha and the Omega, the beginning and the end.

 

[Brother Mike]

Zec 2:8-11 KJV
(8)For thus saith the LORD of hosts; After the glory hath He sent Me unto the nations which spoiled you: for he that toucheth you toucheth the apple of His eye.
(9) For, behold, I will shake Mine hand upon them, and they shall be a spoil to their servants: and ye shall know that the LORD of hosts hath sent Me.
(10) Sing and rejoice, O daughter of Zion: for, lo, I come, and I will dwell in the midst of thee, saith the LORD.
(11) And many nations shall be joined to the LORD in that day, and shall be My people: and I will dwell in the midst of thee, and thou shalt know that the LORD of hosts hath sent Me unto thee.

The One sent is the LORD of hosts. v8, 10
The One sending is the LORD of hosts. v9

The Sent One and the One sending both have the Name LORD of hosts.

I propose that these verses are about God the Father who sent His Son, the LORD Jesus Christ.

And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:
(Rom 11:26)

Heb 1:2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;

Yep, there is a real son, that is also the I am. Just like His Father, but he is not the Father.

Oneness, Modelist, and newer versions of the Trinity doctrine try to confuse this issue.

Joh 20:21 Then said Jesus to them again, Peace be unto you: as my Father hath sent me, even so send I you.

Jesus was never confused about this, it takes the devil and men to get things into a confused mess.

O LORD of hosts, God of Israel, that dwellest between the cherubims, thou art the God, even thou alone, of all the kingdoms of the earth: thou hast made heaven and earth.
(Isa 37:16)

I am the LORD, and there is none else, there is no God beside me: I girded thee, though thou hast not known me:
(Isa 45:5)

There is only ONE Lord God, the creator of all things by whom made all things through and for his son. None else Like Him.

However................ this does not negate His son whom these doctrines (Edited, ToS 2.4, trolling) have tried to remove and have us think of there just being one.

1Co 8:6 But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.

Heb 1:8 But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom.

The Father calls his son God, so no question, one sent the other who has been, and always has been with him.

1Jn 4:2 Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God:

Some believe God the creator came in the flesh, not the son. We are told what spirit that is, that believes that.

1Jn 4:3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.

Blessings.

 

[Gregg]

"but as to the Son, 'Your throne, O God, is forever and ever, A scepter of righteousness is the scepter of Your kingdom; You have loved righteousness and hated lawlessness; because of this God, Your God, has anointed You with the oil of gladness beside Your fellows.' And, 'You, Lord, at the beginning founded the earth, and the heavens are works of Your hands' "(Heb 1:8-10 LITV).

The 'Son of God' [YHWH from eternity] came in the flesh, whose is now known as the LORD Jesus Christ. The 'Son of God' is Himself the Creator (Jn 1:3, Heb 1:10, Ps 102:25-27, Isa 45:2, Isa 51:13, Jer 32:17, Zec 12:1).

 

[Gregg]

Some believe God the creator came in the flesh, not the son. We are told what spirit that is, that believes that.

Blessings.

Please justify this statement from the Scriptures, as 1Jn 4:2-3 does not say anything remotely close to your statement.

Do you believe the LORD Jesus Christ is God? Yes or No.
Do you believe that YHWH is the Name of the Son of God? Yes or No.

 

[Brother Mike]

Please justify this statement from the Scriptures, as 1Jn 4:2-3 does not say anything remotely close to your statement.

Do you believe the LORD Jesus Christ is God? Yes or No.
Do you believe that YHWH is the Name of the Son of God? Yes or No.

The Father called him God, no question, Jesus is God. Just not his Father.

You were correct the first time. God the Father sent his son.

I am not sure of your questions though. Jesus the son, came in the flesh, that is the scripture. I am just approaching this with what the Word says, not with some doctrine in mind such as Oneness, Modelism, or Trinity.

Joh 17:5 And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.

Jesus has always been here before the Earth was even formed, given glory by the Father. Not my words, His own words.

If Jesus is the creator, then that is problematic with there be One Lord God whom there is none like. The father God, the God of Israel, the one who saved the world by sending the only beggotton son he has.

We also can't have any contradictory scriptures, anywhere. Scripture never contradicts.

Heb 1:2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;

The Father did not appoint himself as heir to all things He already had, nor make all things to just give them to himself. He put all things under his son, whom He sent and was faithful unto death.
Jesus was appointed heir of all things, He did not appoint himself as heir to things that were already his.

All things were made by (Dia) him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
(Joh 1:3)
For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by (Dia) him, and for him:
(Col 1:16)

The Word Dia here means a channel or act THROUGH something, for the reason of something, because of something. Most the time Kata or en was used for the Word by.
All things were made through, and because of the son.

Hebrews says the same thing, God made the Worlds for the son whom he sent to speak to us in the last days.

I can help more if you can tell me what type of doctrine you might be applying here. Oneness, Modelist, or Trinity and if Trinity, what version of it.

Thank you for the response, be blessed.

 

[Gregg]

The Father called him God, no question, Jesus is God. Just not his Father.

Thanks for your reply Mike.

With reference to Zec 2:8-11, which identifies the One being sent as YHWH: Do you believe that YHWH is the Name of the Son of God? Yes or No.

 

[rthom7]

Brother Gregg, I see your reasoning the one Sent by the YHWH of hosts(the Father) is the Son (also referenced as YHWH)

There are at least two YHWH who exist, the Father and the Son

Ge 19:24 ¶ Then the LORD rained upon Sodom and upon Gomorrah brimstone and fire from the LORD out of heaven;

Simultaneously One YHWH was in heaven while one YHWH was on the earth.


Zec 2:10 ¶ Sing and rejoice, O daughter of Zion: for, lo, I come, and I will dwell in the midst of thee, saith the LORD "Son-Yahweh"

Cross references parallel this verse to

Joh 1:14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

 

[Eugene]

Brother Gregg, I see your reasoning the one Sent by the YHWH of hosts(the Father) is the Son (also referenced as YHWH)

There are at least two YHWH who exist, the Father and the Son

Ge 19:24 ¶ Then the LORD rained upon Sodom and upon Gomorrah brimstone and fire from the LORD out of heaven;

Simultaneously One YHWH was in heaven while one YHWH was on the earth.

Zec 2:10 ¶ Sing and rejoice, O daughter of Zion: for, lo, I come, and I will dwell in the midst of thee, saith the LORD "Son-Yahweh"

Cross references parallel this verse to

Joh 1:14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

Dear Brother rthom7, you have identified Our Father and Jesus as YHWH, but how would you identify the God of peace who is the Holy Spirit?

You said “There are at least two YHWH who exist, the Father and the Son.” Have you considered that there are exactly three YHWN who exist as one God?

Blessings in Christ Jesus.

 

[Brother Mike]

Brother Gregg, I see your reasoning the one Sent by the YHWH of hosts(the Father) is the Son (also referenced as YHWH)


Joh 1:14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

If we read the word consistently without concepts of Trinity, Modelism, Or Oneness, then we read that verse a whole lot different. We would read it for what it says.

The Word was made into something. God spoke, and it comes to pass. Matter is formed, events change, Kingdoms change. God calls those things that be not as though they were and his Word never returns void, it comes to pass and can't be changed.

Jesus came to pass, begotten as human through Mary. He was born a child.

Psa 2:7 I will declare the decree: the LORD hath said unto me, Thou art my Son; this day have I begotten thee.
Joh 1:14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth

God speaks, it happens. This is not saying Jesus is some Word part of a God system, or the Word spiritually and/or physically. Rev only says His name means the Word as he was sent in the last days to give the Word of God,

Act 13:33 God hath fulfilled the same unto us their children, in that he hath raised up Jesus again; as it is also written in the second psalm, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee.

In Acts we are told that Word God spoke had been fulfilled. Jesus came, the only human begotten by the Father. We are also born of the Word, but through the words of the Son.

We have to be careful of these doctrines and compare scriptures.

Dear Brother rthom7, you have identified Our Father and Jesus as YHWH, but how would you identify the God of peace who is the Holy Spirit?

You said “There are at least two YHWH who exist, the Father and the Son.” Have you considered that there are exactly three YHWN who exist as one God?

Blessings in Christ Jesus.

That would be a Modelist route to take, and very hard if not impossible to defend as Modelist borrow from Oneness and Trinity then mix them up. It would be better to define what exactly "god" means in scriptures, then examine that. The Holy Spirit by definition of theos would be considered a god. A immortal being of uncertain origin or someone immortal. Satan also got the title though and Jesus called us theos (As in we also are immortal and will end up someplace in the end, created in the image of God)

Original Trinity Doctrine 325ad did not include the Holy Spirit, but Jesus was the son and God was the Father (TWO) but both of the some God essence. Not just One God, but of the same class. Later changed (Much Later) to there are 3 in the God head, each different. This came about because Alexandria Wanted to make Jesus a minor deity and the Catholic church would have none of that.

Later on to explain how there can be 3 different beings, with their own report but become one was just said to be a mystery of the Christian faith. Southern Baptist say it's far to much for the finite mind of man to understand. Methodist say it's a puzzle. I say hogwash, it's not that complicated.

Husband and wife become one flesh, but still two, and we are told that is also a mystery.

Blessings.

 

[Eugene]

If we read the word consistently without concepts of Trinity, Modelism, Or Oneness, then we read that verse a whole lot different. We would read it for what it says.

The Word was made into something. God spoke, and it comes to pass. Matter is formed, events change, Kingdoms change. God calls those things that be not as though they were and his Word never returns void, it comes to pass and can't be changed.

Jesus came to pass, begotten as human through Mary. He was born a child.

Psa 2:7 I will declare the decree: the LORD hath said unto me, Thou art my Son; this day have I begotten thee.
Joh 1:14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth

God speaks, it happens. This is not saying Jesus is some Word part of a God system, or the Word spiritually and/or physically. Rev only says His name means the Word as he was sent in the last days to give the Word of God,

Act 13:33 God hath fulfilled the same unto us their children, in that he hath raised up Jesus again; as it is also written in the second psalm, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee.

In Acts we are told that Word God spoke had been fulfilled. Jesus came, the only human begotten by the Father. We are also born of the Word, but through the words of the Son.

We have to be careful of these doctrines and compare scriptures.



That would be a Modelist route to take, and very hard if not impossible to defend as Modelist borrow from Oneness and Trinity then mix them up. It would be better to define what exactly "god" means in scriptures, then examine that. The Holy Spirit by definition of theos would be considered a god. A immortal being of uncertain origin or someone immortal. Satan also got the title though and Jesus called us theos (As in we also are immortal and will end up someplace in the end, created in the image of God)

Original Trinity Doctrine 325ad did not include the Holy Spirit, but Jesus was the son and God was the Father (TWO) but both of the some God essence. Not just One God, but of the same class. Later changed (Much Later) to there are 3 in the God head, each different. This came about because Alexandria Wanted to make Jesus a minor deity and the Catholic church would have none of that.

Later on to explain how there can be 3 different beings, with their own report but become one was just said to be a mystery of the Christian faith. Southern Baptist say it's far to much for the finite mind of man to understand. Methodist say it's a puzzle. I say hogwash, it's not that complicated.

Husband and wife become one flesh, but still two, and we are told that is also a mystery.

Blessings.

I do not entertain the Modalism doctrines that the Father, Son, and the Holy Spirit are not three distinct individuals at all. I also do not believe as some do that the three personages of YHWH are just different manifestations of God.

They are ONE in Holiness, purpose, and deity. They are the Father, The Son, and the Holy Spirit; that Spirit of God, and God of peace by definition. In total agreement God the Father sent Jesus, Jesus did always those things that pleased the Father even going to the cross, and the Holy Spirit raised Jesus from the dead and works in us to separate us unto the full purpose and will of God we know as sanctification.

What benefit to God? He loved us. He is taking out of His people a bride for His Son, and He will have us with Him for eternity He paid so dearly for. A good example or type of what God is doing in this age is the story of Abraham (Father), Eliezer (Holy Spirit), Rebekah (Bride), and Isaac (Jesus) in Genesis Chapter 24.

Gen 1:26 And God said, Let us make man in our image (Jesus), after our likeness:

My thoughts. Blessings inn Christ Jesus.

 

[Brother Mike]

I do not entertain the Modalism doctrines that the Father, Son, and the Holy Spirit are not three distinct individuals at all. I also do not believe as some do that the three personages of YHWH are just different manifestations of God.

They are ONE in Holiness, purpose, and deity. They are the Father, The Son, and the Holy Spirit; that Spirit of God, and God of peace by definition. In total agreement God the Father sent Jesus, Jesus did always those things that pleased the Father even going to the cross, and the Holy Spirit raised Jesus from the dead and works in us to separate us unto the full purpose and will of God we know as sanctification.

What benefit to God? He loved us. He is taking out of His people a bride for His Son, and He will have us with Him for eternity He paid so dearly for. A good example or type of what God is doing in this age is the story of Abraham (Father), Eliezer (Holy Spirit), Rebekah (Bride), and Isaac (Jesus) in Genesis Chapter 24.

Gen 1:26 And God said, Let us make man in our image (Jesus), after our likeness:

My thoughts. Blessings inn Christ Jesus.

Amen brother. Being around pentecostal folks, I use to say that Jesus is the Word of God!!!! in my mind, He was God, but the Word part of God. If I really think back and was honest with myself, I actually believed Jesus was like a 1/3 part of God, being the Word part, the Holy Spirit being the power end and the Father like the creator part.

I believed they were separate, but it was more of a modelist point of view. Leaning toward the 1 becomes 3 and not the 3 are as one. I was just following everyone else.

We follow things without comparing scriptures, praying about it and seeking what's right ourselves. I wish we all were not like that, but we are if we are not constantly on guard and willing to learn and change.

I was thanking God for something He did for me, then I thanked Jesus, but then said, "No, Jesus your God also, so I thank you." I had really just lumped them all into one, but was really being thankful.

Then I heard a voice, not with my ears, but inside, and for some reason I knew it was not the Father. It was very strange but He said........... "I Am, I am Not my Father." It was straight forward and very loud and matter of fact. Like a correction. It took several years to sort it out as the doctrine was just that deep.

As you said, Jesus here before the foundation of the World with the Father, the Father saying to him. Let us make man in our image. All things the Father made were for him (By Greek Word dia, meaning through or because of something) That the Son would have all preeminence of all things predestined before the World was made, the Father giving Glory to the Son, restored back as the Son came and was faithful in all things and without sin having the bondage of flesh by which he rightfully could call us brothers and sisters.

Joh 17:5 And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.

There is One Lord God, the Father of all things the Savior whom sent his son by whom all things consisted.

For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ.
(Jud 1:4)

Remember the former things of old: for I am God, and there is none else; I am God, and there is none like me,
(Isa 46:9)

Isa 42:5 Thus saith God the LORD, he that created the heavens, and stretched them out; he that spread forth the earth, and that which cometh out of it; he that giveth breath unto the people upon it, and spirit to them that walk therein:

Isa 45:5 I am the LORD, and there is none else, there is no God beside me: I girded thee, though thou hast not known me:

But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.
(1Co 8:6)

There is One God the father of whom all things became and One Lord Jesus Christ by (Through and because of) are all things and we by Him.

That is TWO!!!! The Son as one with the Father and we in the Son as one, with them.

Oneness, versions of the Trinity, and modelism attempt to make the Son just as part of the Same God system, but the Son is Lord of Lords, King of Kings, the one true God and given all things, and all things put under his feet. It's the spirit of the antichrist who has tried to erase and diminish God the Father actually having a real son whom he honored and exalted. One reason I am not a big fan of these Trinity, Modelist, and oneness doctrines.

The Original Trinity doctrine has Jesus begotten before the foundation of the World. (325ad) He was only begotten by the spoken word as human, and has no creation date, but always has been with the Father.

blessings.

 

[Eugene]

There is One God the father of whom all things became and One Lord Jesus Christ by (Through and because of) are all things and we by Him.

That is TWO!!!! The Son as one with the Father and we in the Son as one, with them

I'm not quite how to interpret what your thinking is here. Are you in some manner saying that the Spirit of God, that Holy Spirit, the God of peace is not YHWH also? It is even He that raised Jesus from the dead.

Acts 4:10 Be it known unto you all, and to all the people of Israel, that by the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, whom ye crucified, whom God raised from the dead,

Act 5:30 The God of our fathers raised up Jesus,

Rom 8:11 But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead . . . Who is this Spirit but God the Holy Spirit?

Blessings in Christ Jesus.

 

[jasonc]

gah, the YHWH SHALOM is the YHWH. see the appropriate verses for that, Exodus 6:3

 

[Eugene]

gah, the YHWH SHALOM is the YHWH. see the appropriate verses for that, Exodus 6:3

Are you saying Jesus wasn't YHWH? I believe that is the doctrine JW's profess. One came to my door last week I think it was and wanted to hand me some literature, and I just commented "Jesus is God," and a miracle occurred; they vanished. Well they left anyway.

 

[Gregg]

Eugene's post to Brother Mike:

I'm not quite how to interpret what your thinking is here. Are you in some manner saying that the Spirit of God, that Holy Spirit, the God of peace is not YHWH also? It is even He that raised Jesus from the dead.

Eugene, can you show where the Holy Spirit is addressed by the Name YHWH, other than as the "Spirit of the LORD."

The Father and the Son are addressed by the proper Name YHWH, but I am not aware that the Holy Spirit is addressed by the proper Name YHWH. However, I would welcome that if it were in the Scriptures.

- - -

 

[JLB]

Brother Gregg, I see your reasoning the one Sent by the YHWH of hosts(the Father) is the Son (also referenced as YHWH)

There are at least two YHWH who exist, the Father and the Son

Ge 19:24 ¶ Then the LORD rained upon Sodom and upon Gomorrah brimstone and fire from the LORD out of heaven;

Simultaneously One YHWH was in heaven while one YHWH was on the earth.


Zec 2:10 ¶ Sing and rejoice, O daughter of Zion: for, lo, I come, and I will dwell in the midst of thee, saith the LORD "Son-Yahweh"

Cross references parallel this verse to

Joh 1:14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

Amen Brother

 

[JLB]

Eugene's post to Brother Mike:



Eugene, can you show where the Holy Spirit is addressed by the Name YHWH, other than as the "Spirit of the LORD."

The Father and the Son are addressed by the proper Name YHWH, but I am not aware that the Holy Spirit is addressed by the proper Name YHWH. However, I would welcome that if it were in the Scriptures.

- - -

It would be an interesting study!

Are you up for it?

I would start with this scripture -

31"For this reason a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh." 32 This is a great mystery, but I speak concerning Christ and the church. Ephesians 5:31-32


JLB

 

[Eugene]

Eugene's post to Brother Mike:
Eugene, can you show where the Holy Spirit is addressed by the Name YHWH, other than as the "Spirit of the LORD."

The Father and the Son are addressed by the proper Name YHWH, but I am not aware that the Holy Spirit is addressed by the proper Name YHWH. However, I would welcome that if it were in the Scriptures. - - -

Would you accept Him addressed as the God of peace that raised Jesus from the grave as being YHWH?

Heb 13:20 Now the God of peace, that brought again from the dead our Lord Jesus, that great shepherd of the sheep, through the blood of the everlasting covenant,

Rom 8:11 But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.

1 Thes 5:23 And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ. This is the very purpose of the Holy Spirit in our lives is to separate us unto God's perfect will for us through His power. It is a walk of holiness He purposes for us.