YHWH: the Father's Name, and the Son's Name

[Deborah13]

(Post removed. Response to deleted posts. Obadiah.)

 

[Gregg]

(Post removed. Response to deleted post. Obadiah.)

 

[jocor]

(Edited, ToS 2.1, arguing against the basic tenants of our Statement of Faith. Obadiah)

 

[Brother Mike]

The Father sent His Only Begotten Son to be the Savior of the world.

He was the Son, THEN He was sent into the world.

He didn't become the Son when Mary gave Birth to Him.

God sent HIS SON to be the savior of the world.


The question I have for you is: what was The Son whom God sent, BEFORE He became flesh:

A.) An Angel

B.) God

C.) Something else


JLB

(Edited, ToS 2.14. Obadiah.)

I think Jacor's position was seeing the Son as created, based on His understanding of what Creature and Firstborn mean.

gregg........ can't tell, (Edited, ToS 2.14, Obadiah) He seems to be getting a grasp on the Holy Spirit and His relationship the to Son and Father.

As for myself................ God is a class of something, it's a class of something in the Word. The Son, Us, Satan, False Gods all shared the same name God as the Word in "God the Father"

Jesus is in the God class, like his Father, like us as we were made like them.

Given Glory by His Father before the foundation of the World, always been here with the Father.

Not in the Angelic class, (Even though the Father did call him servant in Isa)
Otherwise He could not have been made lower than the Angels if He started out as one.

Jesus is (God) the Son. As called God by His Father (Heb) Thomas, and John. Not his Father though, not the Holy Spirit but Son and King of Kings on his own. (Not some 1/3 part of a god system) oneness

I can back all that with scripture of course and as always.

Blessings.

 

[JLB]

(Edited, ToS 2.14, Obadiah)

I think Jacor's position was seeing the Son as created, based on His understanding of what Creature and Firstborn mean.

gregg........ can't tell,(Edited, ToS 2.14, Obadiah) He seems to be getting a grasp on the Holy Spirit and His relationship the to Son and Father.

As for myself................ God is a class of something, it's a class of something in the Word. The Son, Us, Satan, False Gods all shared the same name God as the Word in "God the Father"

Jesus is in the God class, like his Father, like us as we were made like them.

Given Glory by His Father before the foundation of the World, always been here with the Father.

Not in the Angelic class, (Even though the Father did call him servant in Isa)
Otherwise He could not have been made lower than the Angels if He started out as one.

Jesus is (God) the Son. As called God by His Father (Heb) Thomas, and John. Not his Father though, not the Holy Spirit but Son and King of Kings on his own. (Not some 1/3 part of a god system) oneness

I can back all that with scripture of course and as always.

Blessings.

Agreed. Jesus is God, the Son.

Glory to His Wonderful Name!

 

[Gregg]

I'll grant you that it was not the Son speaking in verse 8 but what was said most certainly cannot be so easily dismissed. Here, context is very important (all ESV):

Rev 1:8 "I am the Alpha and the Omega," says the Lord God, "who is and who was and who is to come, the Almighty."

Free,

On what do you base that 'it was not the Son speaking' in Rev 1:8?

 

[Eugene]

No. The context is clear--"Firstborn" can, and does, mean "preeminence" or "power", without any idea of being created or literally born; verse 16 clearly states that Jesus was, in some way, involved in all of creation, which precludes him from being a creature. Verse 16 tells us precisely why Jesus is preeminent. You cannot escape that fact. My position keeps verses 15 and 16 consistent while your position makes them contradict.

Brother Free, I’m not sure if this will help to substantiate what you’re saying concerning Jesus being the firstborn or preeminence, Rueben was first born of the sons of Jacob and listed first on an ephod worn on the shoulders of Aaron (Ex 28:8-10), but upon Aaron’s breastplate of judgment the banner of Judah was preeminent in the marching order (Ex 28:29).

An interesting sidelight to this is in Num. 2:33. The tribe of Levi was not numbered with tribes of Israel. Josh. 3:3-4 - When Levites carried the "Ark of the Covenant," they led the march by 2000 cubits. Jesus also preceded us.

 

[Free]

Free,

On what do you base that 'it was not the Son speaking' in Rev 1:8?

It just seems that it could be either the Father or the Son speaking. We aren't told specifically who it is. There are arguments that could be made that it is the Son but it seems a little disjointed from the verses that follow, where we clearly have the Son speaking.

Either way we clearly have the Son being given titles that would be only used of God.

 

[Eugene]

It just seems that it could be either the Father or the Son speaking. We aren't told specifically who it is. There are arguments that could be made that it is the Son but it seems a little disjointed from the verses that follow, where we clearly have the Son speaking.

Either way we clearly have the Son being given titles that would be only used of God.

Isn't that the time Jesus actually takes the reins of power of "All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth" of Mat 28:18? At this present time we do not see all things under Him, and even at the time Jesus has that position as Alpha and Omega our Father will be excepted who put all things under Jesus. 1 Cor 15:27.
1Co 15:27 For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith all things are put under him, it is manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him.