What is The Baptism that saves us now?

Runmyramble said:

.......... mm
I started a post what does it mean to be in Christ....
But I think I have the meaning...
to walk in the light.
So I see how you are interpreting now...
Again I'm excited...

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Walking in the light, God, is certainly a part of it.
Especially as there is no sin in God, who is the light. (1 John 1:5)
Walking as Christ walked is another part of it.
Love God above all else and love your neighbor as you love yourself.

Runmyramble said:

I don't think I'm complicating matters when I myself am thinking outloud that is your opinion. Everyone is not the same in how they process. And I'm thankful for God making me just who I Be..
This is not complicated...

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OK, I will try reading sloowweerr.

Runmyramble said:

Anyway which brings me back to the Baptism that saves us now...One can clearly see it's in the area of identifying with things that give life, are associated with life....which brings us to a renewed heart, and right Spirit.

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I wish I could think of a better phrase than "identifying with", as it seems to leave something out.
How about "partaking of"?
We partake of things that give life, with a renewed heart and new spirit.

Runmyramble said:

Spiritual realities are never things you see with the naked eye...like the heart, and emotions...but they manifest themselves on the outside in deeds of the physical body. LIKE WHAT WE SAY AND DO...

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Amen.

Runmyramble said:

"Not the removal of dirt from the skin" could be seen as not things associated with the physical.

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Agreed !
Not a physical washing but the answer of a good conscience by our obedience to the command to be washed.

Runmyramble said:

I see the pledge or promise of a good conscience as the promised Spirit....

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I see no pledge or promise, because the good conscience comes from our obedience

Runmyramble said:

At the same time I can see our commitment to the process

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How about a quick synopsis of this "process"?

Runmyramble said:

in taking on water Baptism...For it's not a ritual cleansing, but immersion into his death.

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EXACTLY !
And by His death our old self dies too. (Rom 6:3-7)
That is why 1 Peter 3:21 ends with"...by the resurrection of Jesus Christ."
Without the part in parenthesis 1 Peter 3:21 reads as follows..."21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us... by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:
We get the "good conscience" by being raised with Christ to walk in newness of life in Christ. (Rom 6:4)

Runmyramble said:

Regardless ...the commitment stance even, starts with your mind made up...then the outcome of that commitment would be water Baptism.

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Right, and that commitment also includes the repentance from sin.
It is a permanent "turn from" sin.

Runmyramble said:

But no one could make a commitment unless they were touched by God...Which leads me back to my original thought.

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If by "touched by God" you mean...come to belief by seeing, hearing about, and reading about the things pertaining to God, I can agree.
Some would use your words to infer God deliberately picks some and deliberately casts others away.
That is Calvinism, where God does everything and we do nothing.

Runmyramble said:

That the Baptism that saves is the quickening by the Spirit through the preached word. One has to be born from above (regenerated)If one is given life, it is life that saves.....Jesus said these words I speak to you are Spirit and Life....dont quote me look it up....

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Your baptism of the Spirit is granted by God after a true, permanent, turn from sin, and water baptism in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of past sins, which includes our regeneration when we are "raised with Christ to walk in newness of life.

Runmyramble said:

He said unless you eat my flesh and drink my blood you'll have no part in me...

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Profit by all He said and did.
Profit by His life.

Runmyramble said:

In other words, do His will...that seems like eating again from the tree of life...deep... Which means I better bring my body under submission..."beat it up..lol"

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You won't be able to bring the body into submission unless it is first killed and raised with Christ to walk in newness of life...at water baptism into Christ.

JLB said:

Paul writes to baptized born again Christ who are in Christ —
Therefore do not let sin reign in your mortal body, that you should obey it in its lusts. Romans 6:12

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Right, don't let sin into that vessel which will age, and fade away.

JLB said:

Paul himself told us how he himself accomplished this task, of not allowing the sin in his mortal body from ruling over him.
But I discipline my body and bring it into subjection, lest, when I have preached to others, I myself should become disqualified.
1 Corinthians 9:27

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Yes, as it is surely possible now that he is in Christ.

JLB said:

Paul knew from his younger days as a a born again believer,(
(Romans 7) that though his inward man desired to obey because he delighted in God’s word, he discovered that there was a war going on between his sinful flesh and his inward man, where the Spirit of Christ dwelled in him.

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He was actually speaking of his pre-conversion days as a Jewish Pharisee who tried to live according to the Law of Moses.
But couldn't because he was still in the flesh, not the Spirit.

JLB said:

I say then: Walk in the Spirit, and you shall not fulfill the lust of the flesh. For the flesh lusts against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh; and these are contrary to one another, so that you do not do the things that you wish. Galatians 5:16-17

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Amen to that.

JLB said:

Paul simply learned to not let the sin in his mortal body reign over him, so he learned to bring it into subjection to his inward man where the Spirit empowered him to live his life in dominion over the sinful cravings of his flesh; his physical body.

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What he learned, was not to let any sin into his new vessel, after he was raised with Christ to walk in newness of life.

Hopeful said:

Right, don't let sin into that vessel which will age, and fade away.

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Sorry but your opinion just doesn’t stand up to God’s word.

Paul plainly states in context to Romans 6:4-5, to born again baptized Christians… to not let the sin in their physical body to reign, to dominate, to gain control of them.

Therefore do not let sin reign in your mortal body, that you should obey it in its lusts. Romans 6:12


You can try all you want, to ignore or state your opinion, in the face of the truth of God’s word, but it means nothing.

Every single born again, water baptized Christian has the same body they were born with, and it contains sin.


I say then: Walk in the Spirit, and you shall not fulfill the lust of the flesh. Galatians 6:16


This sin in our flesh is at war with the Spirit who dwells in our spirit. The answer is to live our life by the powerful spiritual resources of the Spirit dwelling within us, lead us in a life of victory over the sin in our flesh; to lead us in a life of dominion over the flesh.

For the flesh lusts against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh; and these are contrary to one another, so that you do not do the things that you wish. Galatians 5:17

This lifestyle is called walking in the Spirit.

Only by walking according to the leading of the Spirit, can we be enabled and empowered to live free from fulfilling the lust of the flesh.


I say then: Walk in the Spirit, and you shall not fulfill the lust of the flesh. Galatians 6:16

Again, Paul is addressing Christians, baptized Christians.


I don’t know where your “doctrine” came from, but it surely isn’t from God or the Bible.





JLB

Why is this thread still going? Re the OP: there is no baptism that saves us "now" or at any other time. We are saved by God's grace. Period.

JLB said:

Sorry but your opinion just doesn’t stand up to God’s word.
Paul plainly states in context to Romans 6:4-5, to born again baptized Christians… to not let the sin in their physical body to reign, to dominate, to gain control of them.

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You are misquoting Paul.
Paul says...Don't let sin reign in your body.
You say...Don't let the sin in your body reign.
If you keep sin out it can't be in.

JLB said:

Therefore do not let sin reign in your mortal body, that you should obey it in its lusts. Romans 6:12

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You copy/paste it correctly but read it incorrectly.

JLB said:

You can try all you want, to ignore or state your opinion, in the face of the truth of God’s word, but it means nothing.
Every single born again, water baptized Christian has the same body they were born with, and it contains sin.

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I could never agree with a doctrine that denies what Jesus accomplished in us.

JLB said:

I say then: Walk in the Spirit, and you shall not fulfill the lust of the flesh. Galatians 6:16

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Yep, so true.
It is later written..."And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts." (Gal 5:24)
Those with lusts still in their self are NOT Christ's.

JLB said:

This sin in our flesh is at war with the Spirit who dwells in our spirit. The answer is to live our life by the powerful spiritual resources of the Spirit dwelling within us, lead us in a life of victory over the sin in our flesh; to lead us in a life of dominion over the flesh.
For the flesh lusts against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh; and these are contrary to one another, so that you do not do the things that you wish. Galatians 5:17
This lifestyle is called walking in the Spirit.
Only by walking according to the leading of the Spirit, can we be enabled and empowered to live free from fulfilling the lust of the flesh.

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Crucify the flesh, with the affections and lusts, and never fret over it again.

JLB said:

I say then: Walk in the Spirit, and you shall not fulfill the lust of the flesh. Galatians 6:16
Again, Paul is addressing Christians, baptized Christians.

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So true, but you seem intent on defeating it.

JLB said:

I don’t know where your “doctrine” came from, but it surely isn’t from God or the Bible.

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I serve a Lord who conquered death with a righteous life while living in His skin and bones.
So can we, thanks be to God.

.....

Hopeful said:

Walking in the light, God, is certainly a part of it.
Especially as there is no sin in God, who is the light. (1 John 1:5)
Walking as Christ walked is another part of it.
Love God above all else and love your neighbor as you love yourself.

OK, I will try reading sloowweerr.

I wish I could think of a better phrase than "identifying with", as it seems to leave something out.
How about "partaking of"?
We partake of things that give life, with a renewed heart and new spirit.

Amen.

Agreed !
Not a physical washing but the answer of a good conscience by our obedience to the command to be washed.

I see no pledge or promise, because the good conscience comes from our obedience

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One has to be obedient to something..
We are free from the bondage of one master....because we received the Spirit.

Hopeful said:

How about a quick synopsis of this "process"?

EXACTLY !

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Can't remember why I said that...

Hopeful said:

And by His death our old self dies too. (Rom 6:3-7)
That is why 1 Peter 3:21 ends with"...by the resurrection of Jesus Christ."
Without the part in parenthesis 1 Peter 3:21 reads as follows..."21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us... by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:
We get the "good conscience" by being raised with Christ to walk in newness of life in Christ. (Rom 6:4)

Click to expand...

Hopeful said:

Right, and that commitment also includes the repentance from sin.
It is a permanent "turn from" sin.

If by "touched by God" you mean...come to belief by seeing, hearing about, and reading about the things pertaining to God, I can agree.
Some would use your words to infer God deliberately picks some and deliberately casts others away.
That is Calvinism, where God does everything and we do nothing.

Your baptism of the Spirit is granted by God after a true, permanent, turn from sin, and water baptism in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of past sins, which includes our regeneration when we are "raised with Christ to walk in newness of life.

Profit by all He said and did.
Profit by His life.

You won't be able to bring the body into submission unless it is first killed and raised with Christ to walk in newness of life...at water baptism into Christ.

Click to expand...

Your baptism of the Spirit is granted by God after a true, permanent, turn from sin, and water baptism in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of past sins, which includes our regeneration when we are "raised with Christ to walk in newness of life.

Define baptism of the Holy Spirit

Hopeful said:

You are misquoting Paul.
Paul says...Don't let sin reign in your body.

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Interesting how I am writing out the scripture for all to see, and all you can do is deny what the scripture plainly says.

Here is my copy and paste from post number 843.


Paul plainly states in context to Romans 6:4-5, to born again baptized Christians… to not let the sin in their physical body to reign, to dominate, to gain control of them.

Therefore do not let sin reign in your mortal body, that you should obey it in its lusts. Romans 6:12





Every single born again, water baptized Christian has the same body they were born with, and it contains sin.


I say then: Walk in the Spirit, and you shall not fulfill the lust of the flesh. Galatians 6:16


This sin in our flesh is at war with the Spirit who dwells in our spirit. The answer is to live our life by the powerful spiritual resources of the Spirit dwelling within us, lead us in a life of victory over the sin in our flesh; to lead us in a life of dominion over the flesh.

For the flesh lusts against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh; and these are contrary to one another, so that you do not do the things that you wish. Galatians 5:17





JLB

Hopeful said:

What he learned, was not to let any sin into his new vessel, after he was raised with Christ to walk in newness of life.

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The vessel that is new is our spirit.

Our spirit has been born again by the Spirit, not our physical body.


That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. John 3:6

• born of the Spirit is spirit

You have not been able to provide a scripture that says our flesh is born again by the Spirit, so your position has been reduced to denying what the scriptures about this subject so plainly say.




I say then: Walk in the Spirit, and you shall not fulfill the lust of the flesh. For the flesh lusts against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh; and these are contrary to one another, so that you do not do the things that you wish. Galatians 5:16-17


Is Galatians 6:16-17 written to the Church or to unbelievers?






JLB

JLB said:

Interesting how I am writing out the scripture for all to see, and all you can do is deny what the scripture plainly says.

Here is my copy and paste from post number 843.


Paul plainly states in context to Romans 6:4-5, to born again baptized Christians… to not let the sin in their physical body to reign, to dominate, to gain control of them.

Therefore do not let sin reign in your mortal body, that you should obey it in its lusts. Romans 6:12





Every single born again, water baptized Christian has the same body they were born with, and it contains sin.


I say then: Walk in the Spirit, and you shall not fulfill the lust of the flesh. Galatians 6:16


This sin in our flesh is at war with the Spirit who dwells in our spirit. The answer is to live our life by the powerful spiritual resources of the Spirit dwelling within us, lead us in a life of victory over the sin in our flesh; to lead us in a life of dominion over the flesh.

For the flesh lusts against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh; and these are contrary to one another, so that you do not do the things that you wish. Galatians 5:17





JLB

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I think chapter 8 tells us how sin is conquered to win the battle over the flesh(correct me if I'm wrong)....walking by the the Spirit; no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus.

JLB said:

The vessel that is new is our spirit.

Our spirit has been born again by the Spirit, not our physical body.


That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. John 3:6

• born of the Spirit is spirit

You have not been able to provide a scripture that says our flesh is born again by the Spirit, so your position has been reduced to denying what the scriptures about this subject so plainly say.

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What you are saying is...the flesh contains sin(or misses the mark of Christ's Glorifird body) so regardless of ones walks in the Spirit it still going to be hanging around with sin in it?

JLB said:

I say then: Walk in the Spirit, and you shall not fulfill the lust of the flesh. For the flesh lusts against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh; and these are contrary to one another, so that you do not do the things that you wish. Galatians 5:16-17


Is Galatians 6:16-17 written to the Church or to unbelievers?






JLB

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Well yall it was nice...but I need a brain break...and some time off...maybe a week...So See yall later...stay kind❣❤

Runmyramble said:

I think chapter 8 tells us how sin is conquered to win the battle over the flesh(correct me if I'm wrong)....walking by the the Spirit; no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus.

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No condemnation for those who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.


There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus, who do not walk according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit. Romans 8:1

Runmyramble said:

What you are saying is...the flesh contains sin(or misses the mark of Christ's Glorifird body) so regardless of ones walks in the Spirit it still going to be hanging around with sin in it?

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What the scripture says is, the flesh contains sin,

Therefore do not let sin reign in your mortal body, that you should obey it in its lusts. Romans 6:12

… and the sin in our flesh battles to gratify its lustful cravings. In order for sin to to able to fulfill its sinful desires it must reign over us, which is to it must get us to obey its lusts; it’s lustful desires.


Therefore do not let sin reign in your mortal body, that you should obey it in its lusts. Romans 6:12


The way we overcome these lustful cravings that desire to be fulfilled is by the power of the Spirit, in us, empowering and enabling us with self control to crucify, which is to say, put to death the deeds of the flesh.


Therefore, brethren, we are debtors—not to the flesh, to live according to the flesh. For if you live according to the flesh you will die; (eternal death) but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live. Romans 8:12-13

• but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live. (eternal life)

This begins with what we allow in our mind and heart.







JLB

JLB said:

Interesting how I am writing out the scripture for all to see, and all you can do is deny what the scripture plainly says.
Here is my copy and paste from post number 843.
Paul plainly states in context to Romans 6:4-5, to born again baptized Christians… to not let the sin in their physical body to reign, to dominate, to gain control of them.
Therefore do not let sin reign in your mortal body, that you should obey it in its lusts. Romans 6:12

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The KJV says..."Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof."
You are reading that as "Do not let the sin in your mortal body reign."
That is a false interpretation.
Your false interpretation has led you astray with a denial of the consequences of obedience to God's apostles.
It is written..." Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.
7 For he that is dead is freed from sin. (Rom 6:6-7)
It is written..."Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness." (Rom 6:18)
It is written..."But now being made free from sin, and become servants to God, ye have your fruit unto holiness, and the end everlasting life." (Rom 6:22).
It is written..."But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his." (Rom 8:9)

JLB said:

Every single born again, water baptized Christian has the same body they were born with, and it contains sin.

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Only according to your false interpretation.

JLB said:

I say then: Walk in the Spirit, and you shall not fulfill the lust of the flesh. Galatians 6:16

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Obey, and live.

JLB said:

This sin in our flesh is at war with the Spirit who dwells in our spirit. The answer is to live our life by the powerful spiritual resources of the Spirit dwelling within us, lead us in a life of victory over the sin in our flesh; to lead us in a life of dominion over the flesh.
For the flesh lusts against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh; and these are contrary to one another, so that you do not do the things that you wish. Galatians 5:1

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Thank God the war has been won.
It is written..."And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts." (Gal 5:24)
You are errantly giving the dead flesh a lot of unearned credit.

Runmyramble said:

I think chapter 8 tells us how sin is conquered to win the battle over the flesh(correct me if I'm wrong)....

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Sin has been conquered, and the dead flesh, and we were told, in Romans 6, how to do it.
Baptism into Christ, and into His death and burial.

Runmyramble said:

...walking by the the Spirit; no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus.

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Yes, walking in the Spirit and NOT in the flesh.
Ro 8:1..."There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

Runmyramble said:

Well yall it was nice...but I need a brain break...and some time off...maybe a week...So See yall later...stay kind❣❤

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How can we, if there is sin in our skin and bones?

JLB said:

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JLB

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As you allege sin in your "whole body", your eyes must be "full of darkness".

Hopeful said:

Sin has been conquered, and the dead flesh, and we were told, in Romans 6, how to do it.
Baptism into Christ, and into His death and burial.

Yes, walking in the Spirit and NOT in the flesh.
Ro 8:1..."There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

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So sayeth the King James translation. Modern translations don't have the last part of the verse, which was added later to the earliest and best sources. Instead, Romans 8:1 reads, " Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus." You shouldn't base doctrine on questionable verses.

jaybo said:

So sayeth the King James translation. Modern translations don't have the last part of the verse, which was added later to the earliest and best sources. Instead, Romans 8:1 reads, " Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus." You shouldn't base doctrine on questionable verses.

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If God didn't want the "who walk Not after the flesh but after the Spirit." part in there, it wouldn't be in there.
Frankly, to me it is redundant anyway, as those in Christ can't walk after the flesh.
It has been crucified and buried with Christ. (Rom 6:3-6)
It is written..."And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts." (Gal 5:24)

Hopeful said:

If God didn't want the "who walk Not after the flesh but after the Spirit." part in there, it wouldn't be in there.
Frankly, to me it is redundant anyway, as those in Christ can't walk after the flesh.
It has been crucified and buried with Christ. (Rom 6:3-6)
It is written..."And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts." (Gal 5:24)

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It's not in the best translations. Simply because it's in the KJV doesn't make it valid Scripture. And I agree, it is redundant.