What is The Baptism that saves us now?

[JLB]

He had better have learned, as he was actually crucified with Christ.

If, then, I do what I will not to do, I agree with the law that it is good. But now, it is no longer I who do it, but sin that dwells in me. For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh) nothing good dwells; for to will is present with me, but how to perform what is good I do not find. For the good that I will to do, I do not do; but the evil I will not to do, that I practice. Now if I do what I will not to do, it is no longer I who do it, but sin that dwells in me. Romans 7:16-20

• For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh) nothing good dwells; for to will is present with me, but how to perform what is good I do not find.

Paul was recounting his struggle with the sin in his flesh, knowing that God was working in him both to will and do His good pleasure*, he, like all of us had to learn to crucify his flesh, by the Spirit.

• Now if I do what I will not to do, it is no longer I who do it, but sin that dwells in me.

Learning to put to death, crucify the flesh, is a process. As Paul learned he taught others to walk in the freedom for which Christ set us free.

• For those who live according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who live according to the Spirit, the things of the Spirit. Romans 8:5

It begins in the mind, and the renewing of the mind. A mind that is set on things above. A mind that thinks on things that are pure and holy and lovely… A mind that is stayed upon God and is at peace. We all have to learn to set our minds on the Lord, and to meditate on His word, day and night.

• For to be carnally minded is death, but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. Romans 8:6

Also, to develop the habit of praying and seeking Him, about everything that involves our life and family. The more we do this, the more the peace of God that surpasses all understanding will guard our heart and mind.

• Be anxious for nothing, but in everything by prayer and supplication, with thanksgiving, let your requests be made known to God; and the peace of God, which surpasses all understanding, will guard your hearts and minds through Christ Jesus. Philippians 4:6-7

JLB

* for it is God who works in you both to will and to do for His good pleasure.​

 

[gordon777]

Learning to put to death, crucify the flesh, is a process. As Paul learned he taught others to walk in the freedom for which Christ set us free.

• For those who live according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who live according to the Spirit, the things of the Spirit. Romans 8:5

We receive the Spirit not through a process, nor does it happen over our lifetime, it is through one thing only, by believing in Jesus Christ risen from the dead.

Then we are risen with Him, and the body of the flesh is dead.





Romans 8:3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:

Colossians 2:11 In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ:



Also Paul did not struggle to believe that Christ is risen from the dead, and we to be risen with Him, to be circumcised with the circumcision of Christ, putting off the body of the sins of the flesh ( Paul was revealed to by Jesus Christ)

But Romans 7, is how Paul struggled before that revelation, which was why he mentioned the law. ( now we are not under any law, as the law was weak through the flesh as the law is not of faith, ( Galatians 3:12. ) now we are strong in Christ/believing He rose from the dead assuredly.)

 

[gordon777]

Our old man is buried/crucified, and we are risen with Him, quickened together with Him ( all this is faith and faith is easy not a hard process, it is believing only which is righteousness )

The faith of Christ defeated all things that were contrary to us, now we are more than conquerors ( Romans 8:37) and Christ has given us the victory.


Colossians 2:12 Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.
13 And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;
14 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;
15 And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it.

1 Corinthians 15:54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.
55 O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory?
56 The sting of death is sin; and the strength of sin is the law.
57 But thanks be to God, which giveth us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.

 

[jaybo]

We won't be saved without it.
It is written..."He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned." (Mark 16:16)

Why do you take a single verse out of context from the "long ending" of Mark (which has weak support) to prove doctrine?

 

[gordon777]

Questions, questions and debates, it is all warned about, and who hears the ones who wont hear Gods words?




Romans 1:29 Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers,



2 Corinthians 12:20 For I fear, lest, when I come, I shall not find you such as I would, and that I shall be found unto you such as ye would not: lest there be debates, envyings, wraths, strifes, backbitings, whisperings, swellings, tumults:




But the answers are given, we are saved by baptism, water wont save anyone, the Spirit is life. ( that water came out of the belly of Christ)



John 7:37 In the last day, that great day of the feast, Jesus stood and cried, saying, If any man thirst, let him come unto me, and drink.
38 He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water.
39 (But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet given; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.)

 

[Hopeful]

By faith we receive remission of sins.

Yes, faith in the name of Jesus Christ into whom we are "immersed" by water.

Repentance is in the heart, THE SAME AS CIRCUMCISION.

Scripture please.

Acts 15:7 And when there had been much disputing, Peter rose up, and said unto them, Men and brethren, ye know how that a good while ago God made choice among us, that the Gentiles by my mouth should hear the word of the gospel, and believe.
8 And God, which knoweth the hearts, bare them witness, giving them the Holy Ghost, even as he did unto us;
9 And put no difference between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith.

Baptism in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins is just a bath, without faith.

Colossians 2:2 That their hearts might be comforted, being knit together in love, and unto all riches of the full assurance of understanding, to the acknowledgement of the mystery of God, and of the Father, and of Christ;
Colossians 2:7 Rooted and built up in him, and stablished in the faith, as ye have been taught, abounding therein with thanksgiving.
Colossians 2:11 In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ:

"In whom also", illustrating again our "immersion" into Christ and into His death and burial, (Rom 6:3-6), at our water baptism.
Thanks be to God !

 

[Hopeful]

Hi, I think I already stated the places I did not agree....as to the passage "Old things Have Passed away" meaning what we Identify with...For we should no longer Identify with man after the flesh-as the context....

We can't identify with something that is replaced with a new creature.

I disagree on the Catholic view of water Baptism...

Good, as baptizing babies is just a money making scheme.

Yet I do agree on other points you made..take the Catholic ideals out about water Baptism and I think we see things similar..when it comes to the mind set. We do not want to make sin our ally...
We should not be planning to continue on sinning? Which does mean to me one must be intenional... about Identifying with spiritual things or ideals above.

All sin is intentional.
James 1:14-15 defines what "makes" a sin..."But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed.
15 Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death."
Temptation, lust, enticement, and conception.
An accident is void of all of those things.

Paul himself is an example...of beating His flesh into submission.

I don't know about "beating" but keeping the old man dead is a work all must do.

So if we make certain statements like, we will always sin...etc do we not make sin our ally?

We make ourselves an ally of sin, by doing that.
So don't do that.

So regardless of where we disagree I more excited where we do agree...Surely it encourages me to be intentional about How I move throughout the day. Some- where it is written everything pertaining to life is in Christ....and a double minded man should not think He shall receive anything from the Lord..

I could not find your first citing, but the second is James 1:8.
I have BibleGateway.com on my upper task bar, to look for scriptures.

And I believe statement as the above: we will sin as long as we are in the body does not move anyone mentally in a place to be intentional about where their focus should be.

Do you mean...it will never cause them to walk as Jesus walked? (sinlessly)
Agreed.
It is an accommodation FOR sin.

But in light of this, it has allowed me to see the Baptism that saves...Identification with Christ..

Partly I can see some connections with what Vernon mcgee said...in the identification with thing of above, of the Kingdom.
Setting your mind on things above not things related to death

Scripture says we are given everything pertaining to life ...location in Christ..
So where is God when we need Him if His Love is in His son? Mmmm?

As we are now in Christ, by our water baptism into Jesus and into His death and burial, (Rom 6:3-7), God is with us always.

Why not the power..or the Help because true many fail to take His yoke...be tied with Him....by being intentional...

Kinda' lost me there...

Does that mean positional justification is wrong or imputed righteousnes is wrong...no for it's taught, but the reason why He imputed righteousness is that we live soberly and righteously in this present world.

The only thing "positional" about justification, (or sanctification), is whether or not you are IN Christ.
Those outside of Christ are neither.

Anyway which brings me back to the Baptism that saves us now...One can clearly see it's in the area of identifying with things that give life, are associated with life....which brings us to a renewed heart, and right Spirit.

Spiritual realities are never things you see with the naked eye...like the heart, and emotions...but they manifest themselves on the outside in deeds of the physical body. LIKE WHAT WE SAY AND DO...

"Not the removal of dirt from the skin" could be seen as not things associated with the physical.

I see the pledge or promise of a good conscience as the promised Spirit....

At the same time I can see our commitment to the process in taking on water Baptism...For it's not a ritual cleansing, but immersion into his death.

Regardless ...the commitment stance even, starts with your mind made up...then the outcome of that commitment would be water Baptism.

But no one could make a commitment unless they were touched by God...Which leads me back to my original thought.

That the Baptism that saves is the quickening by the Spirit through the preached word. One has to be born from above (regenerated)If one is given life, it is life that saves.....Jesus said these words I speak to you are Spirit and Life....dont quote me look it up....

He said unless you eat my flesh and drink my blood you'll have no part in me...
Another words do His will...that seems like eating again from the tree of life...deep... Which means I better bring my body under submission..."beat it up..lol"

You sure know how to complicate matters.
The baptism that saves us is the one that provides our "immersion" into Christ and into His death an burial. (Rom 6:3-7)
The gift of the Holy Ghost happens afterwards. (Acts 2:38)

 

[Hopeful]

If, then, I do what I will not to do, I agree with the law that it is good. But now, it is no longer I who do it, but sin that dwells in me. For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh) nothing good dwells; for to will is present with me, but how to perform what is good I do not find. For the good that I will to do, I do not do; but the evil I will not to do, that I practice. Now if I do what I will not to do, it is no longer I who do it, but sin that dwells in me. Romans 7:16-20

Written from the perspective of his former life in the now dead flesh.
Rom 7:5 confirms that he is no longer in the "flesh"..."For when we were in the flesh, the motions of sins, which were by the law, did work in our members to bring forth fruit unto death."
It is a narrative from his past time trying, unsuccessfully, to obey all the Law of Moses.

• For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh) nothing good dwells; for to will is present with me, but how to perform what is good I do not find.

Paul was recounting his struggle with the sin in his flesh, knowing that God was working in him both to will and do His good pleasure*, he, like all of us had to learn to crucify his flesh, by the Spirit.

A struggle from his past.

• Now if I do what I will not to do, it is no longer I who do it, but sin that dwells in me.

Spoken in the narrative of a previous time.

Learning to put to death, crucify the flesh, is a process. As Paul learned he taught others to walk in the freedom for which Christ set us free.

He had already written of the death of the flesh in Romans 6.
There is nothing more to learn about killing the old man.

• For those who live according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who live according to the Spirit, the things of the Spirit. Romans 8:5

It begins in the mind, and the renewing of the mind. A mind that is set on things above. A mind that thinks on things that are pure and holy and lovely… A mind that is stayed upon God and is at peace. We all have to learn to set our minds on the Lord, and to meditate on His word, day and night.

• For to be carnally minded is death, but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. Romans 8:6

Also, to develop the habit of praying and seeking Him, about everything that involves our life and family. The more we do this, the more the peace of God that surpasses all understanding will guard our heart and mind.

• Be anxious for nothing, but in everything by prayer and supplication, with thanksgiving, let your requests be made known to God; and the peace of God, which surpasses all understanding, will guard your hearts and minds through Christ Jesus. Philippians 4:6-7

Thanks be to God for Paul's exhortations on keeping the "flesh" dead.

* for it is God who works in you both to will and to do for His good pleasure.​

God won't dwell in an unclean temple.

 

[Hopeful]

Why do you take a single verse out of context from the "long ending" of Mark (which has weak support) to prove doctrine?

It isn't out of context.
It is a promise from Jesus Christ.
And, a great way to ferret out the posers !

 

[JLB]

Written from the perspective of his former life in the now dead flesh.
Rom 7:5 confirms that he is no longer in the "flesh"..."For when we were in the flesh, the motions of sins, which were by the law, did work in our members to bring forth fruit unto death."
It is a narrative from his past time trying, unsuccessfully, to obey all the Law of Moses.

A struggle from his past.

Spoken in the narrative of a previous time.

He had already written of the death of the flesh in Romans 6.
There is nothing more to learn about killing the old man.

Thanks be to God for Paul's exhortations on keeping the "flesh" dead.

God won't dwell in an unclean temple.

Just more opinion from you in the face of overwhelming scriptural proof that our body has not been born again, but remains the same body of sin.


The physical body of the Christian who has been baptized is the same physical body they were born with.

Paul writes to baptized born again Christ who are in Christ —

Therefore do not let sin reign in your mortal body, that you should obey it in its lusts. Romans 6:12


What has changed is God working in us by His Spirit, to both will and do His good pleasure.


Born again Spirit filled Paul, explaining how he discovered to walk not according to the sinful desires of his flesh, but rather to live in dominion over his flesh, by the power of the Spirit.

I find then a law, that evil is present with me, the one who wills to do good. For I delight in the law of God according to the
inward man. But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members. Romans 7:21-23


Born again Spirit filled Paul, explaining that the sin in his members, the members of his physical body, was at war against his inward man.



JLB

 

[Hopeful]

Just more opinion from you in the face of overwhelming scriptural proof that our body has not been born again, but remains the same body of sin.

Here is a scripture you may have missed...
It is written..."Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin." (Rom 6:6)
My "body of sin" was crucified with Christ, and was destroyed.
It is written..."And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts." (Ga 5:24)
If the old man is dead, it can't still be alive.

The physical body of the Christian who has been baptized is the same physical body they were born with.

It is a new creature, a kind of first fruit.
It is written..."Of his own will begat he us with the word of truth, that we should be a kind of firstfruits of his creatures." (James 1:18)

Paul writes to baptized born again Christ who are in Christ —
Therefore do not let sin reign in your mortal body, that you should obey it in its lusts. Romans 6:12

Yep, it makes no sense to go back to that you have repented of.
What you have been freed of by the truth Jesus said would free you from committing sin...in John 8:32-34.
Don't let sin in to become your master.

What has changed is God working in us by His Spirit, to both will and do His good pleasure.
Born again Spirit filled Paul, explaining how he discovered to walk not according to the sinful desires of his flesh, but rather to live in dominion over his flesh, by the power of the Spirit.

Quite easy to do when you realize the "flesh" had been killed and has no further power in one's life.

I find then a law, that evil is present with me, the one who wills to do good. For I delight in the law of God according to the
inward man. But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members. Romans 7:21-23

It is written..."For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death." (Rom 8:2)
More proof that Rom 7:23 is a narrative of a former time.

Born again Spirit filled Paul, explaining that the sin in his members, the members of his physical body, was at war against his inward man.

Sin WAS in his members, before the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus freed him from it. (Rom 8:2)

 

[Runmyramble]

We won't be saved without it.
It is written..."He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned." (Mark 16:16)

We can't identify with something that is replaced with a new creature.

Good, as baptizing babies is just a money making scheme.

All sin is intentional.
James 1:14-15 defines what "makes" a sin..."But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed.
15 Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death."
Temptation, lust, enticement, and conception.
An accident is void of all of those things.

I don't know about "beating" but keeping the old man dead is a work all must do.

We make ourselves an ally of sin, by doing that.
So don't do that.

I could not find your first citing, but the second is James 1:8.
I have BibleGateway.com on my upper task bar, to look for scriptures.

Do you mean...it will never cause them to walk as Jesus walked? (sinlessly)
Agreed.
It is an accommodation FOR sin.

As we are now in Christ, by our water baptism into Jesus and into His death and burial, (Rom 6:3-7), God is with us always.

Kinda' lost me there...

The only thing "positional" about justification, (or sanctification), is whether or not you are IN Christ.
Those outside of Christ are neither.

You sure know how to complicate matters.
The baptism that saves us is the one that provides our "immersion" into Christ and into His death an burial. (Rom 6:3-7)
The gift of the Holy Ghost happens afterwards. (Acts 2:38)

...

 

[Runmyramble]

.......... mm

We can't identify with something that is replaced with a new creature.

Good, as baptizing babies is just a money making scheme.

All sin is intentional.
James 1:14-15 defines what "makes" a sin..."But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed.
15 Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death."
Temptation, lust, enticement, and conception.
An accident is void of all of those things.

I don't know about "beating" but keeping the old man dead is a work all must do.

We make ourselves an ally of sin, by doing that.
So don't do that.

I could not find your first citing, but the second is James 1:8.
I have BibleGateway.com on my upper task bar, to look for scriptures.

Do you mean...it will never cause them to walk as Jesus walked? (sinlessly)
Agreed.
It is an accommodation FOR sin.

As we are now in Christ, by our water baptism into Jesus and into His death and burial, (Rom 6:3-7), God is with us always.

Kinda' lost me there...

The only thing "positional" about justification, (or sanctification), is whether or not you are IN Christ.
Those outside of Christ are neither.

You sure know how to complicate matters.
The baptism that saves us is the one that provides our "immersion" into Christ and into His death an burial. (Rom 6:3-7)
The gift of the Holy Ghost happens afterwards. (Acts 2:38)

I started a post what does it mean to be in Christ....

But I think I have the meaning...
to walk in the light.

So I see how you are interpreting now...
Again I'm excited...

We can't identify with something that is replaced with a new creature.

Good, as baptizing babies is just a money making scheme.

All sin is intentional.
James 1:14-15 defines what "makes" a sin..."But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed.
15 Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death."
Temptation, lust, enticement, and conception.
An accident is void of all of those things.

I don't know about "beating" but keeping the old man dead is a work all must do.

We make ourselves an ally of sin, by doing that.
So don't do that.

I could not find your first citing, but the second is James 1:8.
I have BibleGateway.com on my upper task bar, to look for scriptures.

Do you mean...it will never cause them to walk as Jesus walked? (sinlessly)
Agreed.
It is an accommodation FOR sin.

As we are now in Christ, by our water baptism into Jesus and into His death and burial, (Rom 6:3-7), God is with us always.

Kinda' lost me there...

The only thing "positional" about justification, (or sanctification), is whether or not you are IN Christ.
Those outside of Christ are neither.

You sure know how to complicate matters.
The baptism that saves us is the one that provides our "immersion" into Christ and into His death an burial. (Rom 6:3-7)
The gift of the Holy Ghost happens afterwards. (Acts 2:38)

I don't think I'm complicating matters when I myself am thinking outloud that is your opinion. Everyone is not the same in how they process. And I'm thankful for God making me just who I Be.
....
This is not complicated...

Anyway which brings me back to the Baptism that saves us now...One can clearly see it's in the area of identifying with things that give life, are associated with life....which brings us to a renewed heart, and right Spirit.

Spiritual realities are never things you see with the naked eye...like the heart, and emotions...but they manifest themselves on the outside in deeds of the physical body. LIKE WHAT WE SAY AND DO...

"Not the removal of dirt from the skin" could be seen as not things associated with the physical.

I see the pledge or promise of a good conscience as the promised Spirit....

At the same time I can see our commitment to the process in taking on water Baptism...For it's not a ritual cleansing, but immersion into his death.

Regardless ...the commitment stance even, starts with your mind made up...then the outcome of that commitment would be water Baptism.

But no one could make a commitment unless they were touched by God...Which leads me back to my original thought.

That the Baptism that saves is the quickening by the Spirit through the preached word. One has to be born from above (regenerated)If one is given life, it is life that saves.....Jesus said these words I speak to you are Spirit and Life....dont quote me look it up....

He said unless you eat my flesh and drink my blood you'll have no part in me...
Another words do His will...that seems like eating again from the tree of life...deep... Which means I better bring my body under submission..."beat it up..lol"

 

[JLB]

Here is a scripture you may have missed...
It is written..."Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin." (Rom 6:6)
My "body of sin" was crucified with Christ, and was destroyed.
It is written..."And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts." (Ga 5:24)
If the old man is dead, it can't still be alive.

Paul writes to baptized born again Christ who are in Christ —

Therefore do not let sin reign in your mortal body, that you should obey it in its lusts. Romans 6:12


Paul himself told us how he himself accomplished this task, of not allowing the sin in his mortal body from ruling over him.


But I discipline my body and bring it into subjection, lest, when I have preached to others, I myself should become disqualified.
1 Corinthians 9:27


Paul knew from his younger days as a a born again believer,(
(Romans 7) that though his inward man desired to obey because he delighted in God’s word, he discovered that there was a war going on between his sinful flesh and his inward man, where the Spirit of Christ dwelled in him.

I say then: Walk in the Spirit, and you shall not fulfill the lust of the flesh. For the flesh lusts against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh; and these are contrary to one another, so that you do not do the things that you wish. Galatians 5:16-17


Paul simply learned to not let the sin in his mortal body reign over him, so he learned to bring it into subjection to his inward man where the Spirit empowered him to live his life in dominion over the sinful cravings of his flesh; his physical body.



JLB

 

[Runmyramble]

Here may be seen the real complications that I hope can be worked out as we meditate on his word...

Under The Baptisms that saves us Now...

Baptism that saves us from what??

Baptise means immerse

And one has to be immersed into something or some concept...etc

I think what it is saying is .....there were Baptisms that saved [brought them into fellowship with God under the old Covenant.

But now under the New Covenant there is a Baptism that saves us now...therefore "not the removal of dirt from the skin"

There is a Baptism that saves the whole being to put into fellowship with God.

But if there is a baptism then we know there is something that needs continual cleansing.

And if it need continual cleansing that means? (It has not been redeemed)

As matter of fact the sealing of the Spirit is until the day of redemption.

Which leads to another question-what happens if you grieve the Spirit?

Which raises another question of the meaning of Sealed....Seems for sure it's for our protection, but how?

Seal as a Mark? Or Seal as the contents of that which is in a can ?

So then what is the issue? If you sin you are no longer in Christ?...Yet Christ is said to be in us as the hope of Glory...

What would Glory (Or share in glory)look like...on earth in our body?

And there goes the saying Christ is in us but are we in Christ?...

Which leads to another question..of some scripture I read about the Spirit of Christ and Spirit of God....what does it mean?

"But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his."

It would seem the Spirit of God cant dwell in you until you receive the Spirit of Christ


Ok...this takes me to something I read awhile ago..So I see why it starts off with the Spirit of God...seeing that God was or is in Christ...

So the Spirit of Christ is the Holy Spirit and the Spirit of God is the Holy Ghost
Same Spirit but different place of walk,or progress.

So as we operate in faith HolyGhost(meaning the resurrected power of Christ)-because we are operating from a place of Victory.





My notes and questions:for further discussion

 

[Runmyramble]

Paul writes to baptized born again Christ who are in Christ —

Are they in Christ? or Have they been Baptized into His death? where their flesh is to be put to death.

Therefore do not let sin reign in your mortal body, that you should obey it in its lusts. Romans 6:12

If sin didnt reign then they would be Baptized by the Holy Ghost...correct me if I'm wrong

Paul himself told us how he himself accomplished this task, of not allowing the sin in his mortal body from ruling over him.

Good pt

But I discipline my body and bring it into subjection, lest, when I have preached to others, I myself should become disqualified.
1 Corinthians 9:27

Good pt

Paul knew from his younger days as a a born again believer,(
(Romans 7) that though his inward man desired to obey because he delighted in God’s word, he discovered that there was a war going on between his sinful flesh and his inward man, where the Spirit of Christ dwelled in him.

Is Romans 7 speaking as a born again believer..or under the law...always wondered about that...you have scriptures for that statement?

I say then: Walk in the Spirit, and you shall not fulfill the lust of the flesh. For the flesh lusts against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh; and these are contrary to one another, so that you do not do the things that you wish. Galatians 5:16-17

Another words they are both there...but you have to choose one....but I think, as hopeful wrote to me, that she is speaking on this side on earth...not so much the full spectrum of gaining a New Body...but the likeness on this side in the physical realm. The likeness then of having a glorified body is to live by the spirit where the power of death is destroyed.

Paul simply learned to not let the sin in his mortal body reign over him, so he learned to bring it into subjection to his inward man where the Spirit empowered him to live his life in dominion over the sinful cravings of his flesh; his physical body.

And that I believe is hopeful's def of sinless perfection...the redemption that is in Christ...(I wonder if that has anything to do with redeeming the time)

JLB

 

[JLB]

Which raises another question of the meaning of Sealed..

Sealed means as in "seal of approval".

A King would have a signant ring with which He would place his unique seal into hot wax on a letter or document that signified the letter or document was authentic.

The Holy Spirit is the authentication that a person has indeed obeyed the Gospel.

And we are His witnesses to these things, and so also is the Holy Spirit whom God has given to those who obey Him.”
Acts 5:32



JLB

 

[JLB]

Are they in Christ? or Have they been Baptized into His death? where their flesh is to be put to death.

Paul is writing to Christians in Rome, one of the most sinful places in the world, and the seat of world government, to those who are in Christ.

To all who are in Rome, beloved of God, called to be saints: Grace to you and peace from God our Father and the Lord. First, I thank my God through Jesus Christ for you all, that your faith is spoken of throughout the whole world.
Romans 1:7-8



JLB

 

[JLB]

But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his."

It would seem the Spirit of God cant dwell in you until you receive the Spirit of Christ

The Spirit of Christ is the Spirit of God, the Spirit of the Lord God.

The Spirit of Christ dwelled in the Old Testament Prophets.

Whenever we see the phrase, thus says the Lord, speaking through the Prophets it was the Spirit of Christ.

Of this salvation the prophets have inquired and searched carefully, who prophesied of the grace that would come to you, searching what, or what manner of time, the Spirit of Christ who was in them was indicating when He testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ and the glories that would follow. 1 Peter 1:10-11


Jesus Christ is Lord; YHWH the Lord God.








JLB

 

[JLB]

If sin didnt reign then they would be Baptized by the Holy Ghost...correct me if I'm wrong

I'm sorry, I don't understand your point.