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jerry63935 said:
i am pre trib and no i do not get it from any man.. it amazes me when it comes to rapture time line if one holds to pretrib .then those that hold to after trib rapture always say man made and Rapture fable





so curious how has it been proven wrong by some man who thinks he knows all sees all or has the rapture taken place? btw the only way to prove one or the other is the rapture to have already happened !
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For over 20 years I have asked for those scriptures that teach a pretrib Rapture, but yet no one can seem to give them to me. I use to believe in pretrib only because I followed all those who taught this thinking they should know what they are talking about as being Pastor's, but yet could never find it in the Bible as they love to use Rev 4:1 as their go to scripture, but does not say John was taken up to heaven, but that he was only in the Spirit right there on the isle of Patmos when he received all those visions.

Rev 4:1 After this I looked, and, behold, a door was opened in heaven: and the first voice which I heard was as it were of a trumpet talking with me; which said, Come up hither, and I will shew thee things which must be hereafter.
Rev 4:2 And immediately I was in the spirit: and, behold, a throne was set in heaven, and one sat on the throne.
 
for_his_glory said:
For over 20 years I have asked for those scriptures that teach a pretrib Rapture, but yet no one can seem to give them to me. I use to believe in pretrib only because I followed all those who taught this thinking they should know what they are talking about as being Pastor's, but yet could never find it in the Bible as they love to use Rev 4:1 as their go to scripture, but does not say John was taken up to heaven, but that he was only in the Spirit right there on the isle of Patmos when he received all those visions.

Rev 4:1 After this I looked, and, behold, a door was opened in heaven: and the first voice which I heard was as it were of a trumpet talking with me; which said, Come up hither, and I will shew thee things which must be hereafter.
Rev 4:2 And immediately God I was in the spirit: and, behold, a throne was set in heaven, and one sat on the throne.
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i see your still right and everyone that is pre trib wrong.. i have shared what paul wrote not appointed to wrath .

For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;. if i am saved why would i face the wrath of GOD? which is what the great Tribulation is about men fleeing wanting the mountains to fall on them.. that sure sounds Like a God who says whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved? but wait read the fine print i will punish you when the end comes with the lost


mind you i really could careless one way or the other. but iw ill assure You and any one else. i do not come to this by any Man or woman i am also sure you will have something else to prove your right.

your study of over 20 years is Great . but it bears no matter . i know people who have studied eternal security over 50 years . that has no bearing to me either . i study and i believe how i do. because its what i have studied
 
jerry63935 said:
For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;. if i am saved why would i face the wrath of GOD? which is what the great Tribulation is about men fleeing wanting the mountains to fall on them.. that sure sounds Like a God who says whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved? but wait read the fine print i will punish you when the end comes with the lost
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Read what you posted here. The wrath of God comes to those who are ungodly and unrighteous as they have no truth found in them. This we can agree on, but they are not we who are Christ own and during the time of God's great wrath we will be protected and provided for by God as He will supply our needs like that of Moses in the wilderness where God provided food and water for them. Nowhere in scripture does it say we will be taken out before the tribulation as I showed you all the scriptures that show the church being the body of Christ will be here during all of that including the 3 1/2 years of the reign of the son of perdition. I even gave the scriptures, especially in Matthew 24: 29-31 that states when Christ will return.

Jesus does not come back twice, but only once and at that time we will hear His voice and rise from the grave and be caught up to meet Him in the air. But, once again you can not give any proof of a pretrib Rapture just like everyone else I have asked to give me those scriptures. I don't give this to scare others, but to prepare others of what comes first before the return of Christ. What is going to happen to all those who believe in a pretrib just to find out it was wrong and now are facing all these things that must come first. Will they lose faith believing it was all a lie and end up reaching out to the beast out of the earth being the son of perdition/last antichrist and bow down taking the mark of this beast as they end up denouncing Christ after the first six trumpets as they fear for their and their families life.

Pretrib scriptures is all I ask, but no one can ever give me any :shrug
 
for_his_glory said:
Notice the word theory. Theory is just the carnal minds way of interpreting something.
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may i ask what is with your mind? spiritual --- talk about judgmental lol " The Rapture was never taught before the 1800's."" let me guess you was around in the 1800's its getting deep
for_his_glory said:
But, once again you can not give any proof of a pretrib Rapture
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i have yet to see anything that says thus saith the Lord your view is correct . if you want to continue this i can do this. if you wish to just let it be cool. but i will leave a post unanswered that blandly says they have the correct view.
 
Actually brother, the Rapture has been taught for the last 2000 years!

A man named Pseudo-Ephraem delivered one of the 1st recorded teaching of the Rapture in a sermon in 400 AD known as the Sermon on the End of the World or, as it is also named, On the Last Times, the Antichrist, and the End of the World.
 
jerry63935 said:
might i remind you you have none either thus saith word for word we will . that is the only thing i accept :sohappy
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If you want to be thus condescending towards my belief with actually giving the scriptures and thus saith your word without using scripture then there really is nothing for us to discuss and I will discuss and keep replying to the others that reply here. You have a good evening sir.
 
jerry63935 said:
Actually brother, the Rapture has been taught for the last 2000 years!

A man named Pseudo-Ephraem delivered one of the 1st recorded teaching of the Rapture in a sermon in 400 AD known as the Sermon on the End of the World or, as it is also named, On the Last Times, the Antichrist, and the End of the World.
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RaPseudo-Ephraem does not teach the Rapture!

www.bible.ca

Pseudo-Ephraem does not teach the Rapture!
(Pseudo-Ephrem teaches that Christians would escape the tribulation through death not rapture.)
 
for_his_glory said:
thus condescending towards my belief
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condescending ??? i simply challenged you.. i lost count how many time on this subject we butted heads. see its condescending when i post. but its a horse of different color when you post. reminds of a man i knew from my home town.. he had a fair amount of pull in the community. his words was do as i say not as i do. granted i will challenge you . in a no retreat no surrender way. i can respect your study But not agree with it. so the ball is in your court
 
jerry63935 said:
condescending ??? i simply challenged you.. i lost count how many time on this subject we butted heads. see its condescending when i post. but its a horse of different color when you post. reminds of a man i knew from my home town.. he had a fair amount of pull in the community. his words was do as i say not as i do. granted i will challenge you . in a no retreat no surrender way. i can respect your study But not agree with it. so the ball is in your court
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I never said you or anyone else are suppose to believe me, but we should always respect each other even if we disagree as we are brothers and sister in Christ with our common ground being the love we have for the Lord. I don't mind being challenged as it makes me study even harder. I would that you would post scripture to back up what you say like I do as I do not go by hear say, but by the very word of God in the full context. If you would do that then we could have a better discussion.
 
for_his_glory said:
I never said you or anyone else are suppose to believe me, but we should always respect each other even if we disagree as we are brothers and sister in Christ with our common ground being the love we have for the Lord. I don't mind being challenged as it makes me study even harder. I would that you would post scripture to back up what you say like I do as I do not go by hear say, but by the very word of God in the full context. If you would do that then we could have a better discussion.
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i gave scripture you rejected it
 
jerry63935 said:
wait you replied should i be offended :eek2
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Oh, please!!! Just showing that you never read what Pseudo-Ephraem wrote, but only hear say by others of what they have said. If you read that article then you will read what he has written as he never taught a pretrib Rapture of the church. If you can't act like a mature Christian adult then I have nothing more to do with you.
 
for_his_glory said:
I'm sorry but there is no scripture given by you in this whole thread, but only that of hear say in what you believe.
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For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;. if i am saved why would i face the wrath of GOD? which is what the great Tribulation is about men fleeing wanting the mountains to fall on them.. that sure sounds Like a God who says whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved? but wait read the fine print i will punish you when the end comes with the lost
Click to expand...

romans full scripture Rev chapter 6 partial put your specs on and read closer Paul wrote God has not appointed us to wrath but obtain salvation Christ takes his Children out dead in Christ first 2nd those alive a remaining . then the tribulation begins and yes after these things there is no mention of the Church. not saying Christians wont go through some things.. but when he pours his wrath out the seals the trumpets and the bowls in rev 6
14 And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places.

15 And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains;

16 And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:

17 For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand? No Christians we dont hide our face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb: nor do we wants the mountains and rocks fall on us.. Nor do we seek death and cant die.

its not going to be picnic for those left behind... we aint going be here call me Gone
 
for_his_glory said:
For over 20 years I have asked for those scriptures that teach a pretrib Rapture, but yet no one can seem to give them to me. I use to believe in pretrib only because I followed all those who taught this thinking they should know what they are talking about as being Pastor's, but yet could never find it in the Bible as they love to use Rev 4:1 as their go to scripture, but does not say John was taken up to heaven, but that he was only in the Spirit right there on the isle of Patmos when he received all those visions.

Rev 4:1 After this I looked, and, behold, a door was opened in heaven: and the first voice which I heard was as it were of a trumpet talking with me; which said, Come up hither, and I will shew thee things which must be hereafter.
Rev 4:2 And immediately I was in the spirit: and, behold, a throne was set in heaven, and one sat on the throne.
Click to expand...

I have posted a bunch of pre trib rapture scriptures before. Let me see if I can find them...
 
jerry63935 said:
romans full scripture Rev chapter 6 partial put your specs on and read closer Paul wrote God has not appointed us to wrath but obtain salvation Christ takes his Children out dead in Christ first 2nd those alive a remaining . then the tribulation begins and yes after these things there is no mention of the Church. not saying Christians wont go through some things.. but when he pours his wrath out the seals the trumpets and the bowls in rev 6
14 And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places.

15 And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains;

16 And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:

17 For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand? No Christians we dont hide our face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb: nor do we wants the mountains and rocks fall on us.. Nor do we seek death and cant die.

its not going to be picnic for those left behind... we aint going be here call me Gone
Click to expand...
Ok I will give you those two, but it would help to give book, chapter and verse as when I looked them up it says nothing about a pretrib Rapture.
 
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