The Battle of Armageddon

The Bible puts the Battle of Armageddon before the New Jerusalem comes down as Revelation is clear that is when the wicked meet their end in the Lake of Fire. So this can only be at the Second Coming, and you can see it is when the Seven Last Plagues fall from the description in Revelation, and they will come one after another which I think corresponds to the one hour (2 weeks prophetic time) the nations get with the Beast.

Revelation 17:12
And the ten horns which thou sawest are ten kings, which have received no kingdom as yet; but receive power as kings one hour with the beast.

Revelation 18:10
Standing afar off for the fear of her torment, saying, Alas, alas that great city Babylon, that mighty city! for in one hour is thy judgment come.

Revelation 18:17
For in one hour so great riches is come to nought. And every shipmaster, and all the company in ships, and sailors, and as many as trade by sea, stood afar off,

Revelation 18:19
And they cast dust on their heads, and cried, weeping and wailing, saying, Alas, alas that great city, wherein were made rich all that had ships in the sea by reason of her costliness! for in one hour is she made desolate.

Revelation 16:1-21
1 And I heard a great voice out of the temple saying to the seven angels, Go your ways, and pour out the vials of the wrath of God upon the earth.
2 And the first went, and poured out his vial upon the earth; and there fell a noisome and grievous sore upon the men which had the mark of the beast, and upon them which worshipped his image.
3 And the second angel poured out his vial upon the sea; and it became as the blood of a dead man: and every living soul died in the sea.
4 And the third angel poured out his vial upon the rivers and fountains of waters; and they became blood.
5 And I heard the angel of the waters say, Thou art righteous, O Lord, which art, and wast, and shalt be, because thou hast judged thus.
6 For they have shed the blood of saints and prophets, and thou hast given them blood to drink; for they are worthy.
7 And I heard another out of the altar say, Even so, Lord God Almighty, true and righteous are thy judgments.
8 And the fourth angel poured out his vial upon the sun; and power was given unto him to scorch men with fire.
9 And men were scorched with great heat, and blasphemed the name of God, which hath power over these plagues: and they repented not to give him glory.
10 And the fifth angel poured out his vial upon the seat of the beast; and his kingdom was full of darkness; and they gnawed their tongues for pain,
11 And blasphemed the God of heaven because of their pains and their sores, and repented not of their deeds.
12 And the sixth angel poured out his vial upon the great river Euphrates; and the water thereof was dried up, that the way of the kings of the east might be prepared.
13 And I saw three unclean spirits like frogs come out of the mouth of the dragon, and out of the mouth of the beast, and out of the mouth of the false prophet.
14 For they are the spirits of devils, working miracles, which go forth unto the kings of the earth and of the whole world, to gather them to the battle of that great day of God Almighty.
15 Behold, I come as a thief. Blessed is he that watcheth, and keepeth his garments, lest he walk naked, and they see his shame.
16 And he gathered them together into a place called in the Hebrew tongue Armageddon.
17 And the seventh angel poured out his vial into the air; and there came a great voice out of the temple of heaven, from the throne, saying, It is done.
18 And there were voices, and thunders, and lightnings; and there was a great earthquake, such as was not since men were upon the earth, so mighty an earthquake, and so great.
19 And the great city was divided into three parts, and the cities of the nations fell: and great Babylon came in remembrance before God, to give unto her the cup of the wine of the fierceness of his wrath.
20 And every island fled away, and the mountains were not found.
21 And there fell upon men a great hail out of heaven, every stone about the weight of a talent: and men blasphemed God because of the plague of the hail; for the plague thereof was exceeding great.

Here is a good description..
"Armageddon Meaning
The actual word for “Armageddon” only appears once in the Bible (Revelation 16:16). Even though most of the New Testament is written in Greek, this comes from the Hebrew word which means, “Mount Megiddo", which may be the same with Har-megiddo; for the Hebrew word (rh) is read "Ar" by the Greeks; so the city Argarize is interpreted the mountain of the most High.

What Is the Battle of Armageddon?​

Revelation 16:16 - ""Then they gathered the kings together to the place that in Hebrew is called Armageddon." - describes what happens after God pours out the sixth bowl of wrath (one of the many plagues that permeates the Revelation narrative).

In this verse, John, the author of Revelation, writes about the gathering of earthly rulers and armies to a place called Armageddon. The word "Armageddon" is derived from the Hebrew "Har-Megiddo," and it is generally understood to be a symbolic location for a final, climactic battle.

The Battle of Armageddon is described in more detail in Revelation 19:11-21 (NIV), where it portrays a dramatic confrontation between the forces of good, led by Jesus Christ (the rider on a white horse), and the forces of evil, symbolically represented by the beast and the false prophet. The antichrist gathers “kings” in a placed called Armageddon. These kings, loyal to the antichrist, will gather their armies to wage war against the people of God. This battle results in the defeat of the enemies of God and the ultimate triumph of righteousness.

We see hints of this war in Revelation 16:14 and in Revelation 20:7-9, where Satan gathers enemies from the four corners of the earth (in essence, everywhere). They’ll surround the camp of the Christians, but fire from heaven will consume them."

Rev 16:12 And the sixth angel poured out his vial upon the great river Euphrates; and the water thereof was dried up, that the way of the kings of the east might be prepared.
Rev 16:13 And I saw three unclean spirits like frogs come out of the mouth of the dragon, and out of the mouth of the beast, and out of the mouth of the false prophet.
Rev 16:14 For they are the spirits of devils, working miracles, which go forth unto the kings of the earth and of the whole world, to gather them to the battle of that great day of God Almighty.
Rev 16:15 Behold, I come as a thief. Blessed is he that watcheth, and keepeth his garments, lest he walk naked, and they see his shame.
Rev 16:16 And he gathered them together into a place called in the Hebrew tongue Armageddon.

Armageddon, Harmageddon, Mageddon known in a few ways of different spellings, but being a city called Megiddo found in the Jezreel Valley between Nazareth and Jerusalem being a place of troops, or an assembly of troops, or a gathering of troops; or a mountain assembly of troops, or a mountain rendezvous of troops, or a mountain gathering of troops.

Rev 20:7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,
Rev 20:8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.
Rev 20:9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.
Rev 20:10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

Have you ever considered the war of Gog and Magog is the same as the battle of Armageddon as we study Ezekiel 38:1-6 which actually names all who will come against Israel in the end of days being Gog, the land of Magog, the chief prince of Meshech and Tubal, Persia, Ethiopia, Libya, Gomer and all his bands; the house of Togarmah of the north quarters, and all his bands. In this battle, this Gog-Magog War, this Armageddon battle, is a different type of battle from any other ones found in scripture including the king of the north and south in Daniel 11. Within this battle the first six trumpets of God's wrath will be poured out into the world, Ezekiel 38:17-19, as we read in Rev 8:6 being the first trumpet sounding that takes us to the seventh trumpet of God's great wrath in Rev 11:15-19 and the timing of the son of perdition during the time of the seventh trumpet that promises a false peace and safety if all will take the mark of this beast, 2Thessalonians 4:1-12; Rev 13.

Ezekiel 38-39 calls this the battle of Gog and Magog and Rev 16:12-16 the place called Armageddon. This all happens before the return of Christ, before Satan is bound for a time, or before that of the Millennium.

The terms “king of the north” and “king of the south” were used in Daniel 11:5-35 to describe the rulers to the north and south of Palestine. The two major powers that existed to the south and north of Jerusalem after the death of Alexander the Great were Egypt to the south (with its kings referred to as Ptolemy) and Syria to the north (with its kings referred to as Seleucus or Antiochus).

The prophecy in Daniel 11:5-31 then documents the historical interactions between the king of the South and the king of the North.

Next, this prophecy seems to include the story of the Maccabees, a Jewish family that led the resistance against Antiochus and his successors because of their efforts to force the Jewish people to accept pagan Greek practices (verses 32-39).

The reference to “the time of the end” in verse 35 is thought by some to be a reference to the time just before Christ returns. We should also understand that it might simply be a reference to the close of the Maccabean time of testing. Or it may also be that this passage is dual referring to the time of the Maccabees and beyond.

Verses 35-39 seem to describe some actions by Antiochus during the time of the Maccabees, and they also serve as a forerunner of actions that will be taken by the beast power that will exist just before Jesus Christ’s return to earth. These powers are that of Satan who has worked within all four Empires being that of the Babylonian Empire, Medo/Persian Empire, Grecian Empire and Roman Empire.

All names need to be read like Gal 4:21Tell me, ye that desire to be under the law, do ye not hear the law? 22For it is WRITTEN, that Abraham had two sons, the one by a bondmaid, the other by a freewoman. 23But he who was of the bondwoman was born after the flesh; but he of the freewoman was by promise. 24Which things are an ALLEGORY: for these are the two covenants; the one from the mount Sinai, which gendereth to bondage, which is Agar. 25For this Agar is mount Sinai in Arabia, and answereth to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children. 26But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all.

So revelation no differential time it happens yesterday's, today's and if your still in skin of earth when you wake to tomorrow's still looking and waiting for christ to come back then your mind needs to read Philip 2:5Let this MIND be in you, which was ALSO IN Christ Jesus: 6Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:

One hour is idiom for "short time," a little while, not two weeks:

"saying,`These last men have worked only one hour, and you made them equal to us who have borne the burden and the heat of the day.' (Matt. 20:12 NKJ)

"These last men have worked only TWO WEEKS, and you made them equal t us who have born the burden and heat of THE DAY"

The interpretation "one hour" = two weeks is therefore, impossible, for the entire time is "one day" and "ONE HOUR" is a portion of time within a "day".

Therefore, "one hour" is idiom for "a short time", not two weeks.

Greetings reddogs,

reddogs said:

The Bible puts the Battle of Armageddon before the New Jerusalem comes down as Revelation is clear that is when the wicked meet their end in the Lake of Fire. So this can only be at the Second Coming, and you can see it is when the Seven Last Plagues fall from the description in Revelation, and they will come one after another which I think corresponds to the one hour (2 weeks prophetic time) the nations get with the Beast.

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I was interested in your perspective on the Battle of Armageddon, but I have a different understanding on many aspects. I have the view that the Seals, Trumpets and Vials are sequential, and we are already in the Vials period which started with the French Revolution and continues until the return of our Lord Jesus Christ. I consider that we are in the 6th Vial period already.
Revelation 16:12–16 (KJV): 12 And the sixth angel poured out his vial upon the great river Euphrates; and the water thereof was dried up, that the way of the kings of the east might be prepared. 13 And I saw three unclean spirits like frogs come out of the mouth of the dragon, and out of the mouth of the beast, and out of the mouth of the false prophet. 14 For they are the spirits of devils, working miracles, which go forth unto the kings of the earth and of the whole world, to gather them to the battle of that great day of God Almighty. 15 Behold, I come as a thief. Blessed is he that watcheth, and keepeth his garments, lest he walk naked, and they see his shame. 16 And he gathered them together into a place called in the Hebrew tongue Armageddon.
There are a number of stages mentioned above:
1. "the sixth angel poured out his vial upon the great river Euphrates; and the water thereof was dried up"
I consider that the drying up of "the great river Euphrates" represents the drying up of the Ottoman Empire, and the most significant event was when they were pushed out of the Holy Land in 1917, and this opened the way for the return of the Jews, and the ultimate establishment of the Nation of Israel in 1948.
2. It speaks of three centres, or three world powers "The Dragon", "The Beast" and "The False Prophet". I consider that although these Powers exist today the full development of what is stated here has not yet happened, but world events are strongly proceeding in that direction and could happen soon, especially as a result of the present Middle East conflict that will realign some of these Powers.
3. Verse 15 speaks of the return of Jesus to the household of faith.
4. Jesus then gathers the nations to the Battle of Armageddon.

You seem to link the Battle of Armageddon with the events of Revelation 17. I consider Revelation 17 depicts events AFTER the Battle of Armageddon.

Kind regards
Trevor

for_his_glory said:

Rev 16:12 And the sixth angel poured out his vial upon the great river Euphrates; and the water thereof was dried up, that the way of the kings of the east might be prepared.
Rev 16:13 And I saw three unclean spirits like frogs come out of the mouth of the dragon, and out of the mouth of the beast, and out of the mouth of the false prophet.
Rev 16:14 For they are the spirits of devils, working miracles, which go forth unto the kings of the earth and of the whole world, to gather them to the battle of that great day of God Almighty.
Rev 16:15 Behold, I come as a thief. Blessed is he that watcheth, and keepeth his garments, lest he walk naked, and they see his shame.
Rev 16:16 And he gathered them together into a place called in the Hebrew tongue Armageddon.

Armageddon, Harmageddon, Mageddon known in a few ways of different spellings, but being a city called Megiddo found in the Jezreel Valley between Nazareth and Jerusalem being a place of troops, or an assembly of troops, or a gathering of troops; or a mountain assembly of troops, or a mountain rendezvous of troops, or a mountain gathering of troops.

Rev 20:7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,
Rev 20:8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.
Rev 20:9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.
Rev 20:10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

Have you ever considered the war of Gog and Magog is the same as the battle of Armageddon as we study Ezekiel 38:1-6 which actually names all who will come against Israel in the end of days being Gog, the land of Magog, the chief prince of Meshech and Tubal, Persia, Ethiopia, Libya, Gomer and all his bands; the house of Togarmah of the north quarters, and all his bands. In this battle, this Gog-Magog War, this Armageddon battle, is a different type of battle from any other ones found in scripture including the king of the north and south in Daniel 11. Within this battle the first six trumpets of God's wrath will be poured out into the world, Ezekiel 38:17-19, as we read in Rev 8:6 being the first trumpet sounding that takes us to the seventh trumpet of God's great wrath in Rev 11:15-19 and the timing of the son of perdition during the time of the seventh trumpet that promises a false peace and safety if all will take the mark of this beast, 2Thessalonians 4:1-12; Rev 13.

Ezekiel 38-39 calls this the battle of Gog and Magog and Rev 16:12-16 the place called Armageddon. This all happens before the return of Christ, before Satan is bound for a time, or before that of the Millennium.

The terms “king of the north” and “king of the south” were used in Daniel 11:5-35 to describe the rulers to the north and south of Palestine. The two major powers that existed to the south and north of Jerusalem after the death of Alexander the Great were Egypt to the south (with its kings referred to as Ptolemy) and Syria to the north (with its kings referred to as Seleucus or Antiochus).

The prophecy in Daniel 11:5-31 then documents the historical interactions between the king of the South and the king of the North.

Next, this prophecy seems to include the story of the Maccabees, a Jewish family that led the resistance against Antiochus and his successors because of their efforts to force the Jewish people to accept pagan Greek practices (verses 32-39).

The reference to “the time of the end” in verse 35 is thought by some to be a reference to the time just before Christ returns. We should also understand that it might simply be a reference to the close of the Maccabean time of testing. Or it may also be that this passage is dual referring to the time of the Maccabees and beyond.

Verses 35-39 seem to describe some actions by Antiochus during the time of the Maccabees, and they also serve as a forerunner of actions that will be taken by the beast power that will exist just before Jesus Christ’s return to earth. These powers are that of Satan who has worked within all four Empires being that of the Babylonian Empire, Medo/Persian Empire, Grecian Empire and Roman Empire.

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The thing is it is describing a event which is future, the 'day of the Lord', the Second Coming, a gathering for the saints to be taken up to heaven and the devil and his minions come to give battle. So look how it refers to a gathering of two differing classes of people as well as spirits of evil against good. There is a gathering and we see it is demon spirits which work miracles before the leaders of the earth and before the whole world and gather them for the battle against God.

Revelation 16:13-14
13 And I saw three unclean spirits like frogs come out of the mouth of the dragon, and out of the mouth of the beast, and out of the mouth of the false prophet. 14 For they are the spirits of devils, working miracles, which go forth unto the kings of the earth and of the whole world, to gather them to the battle of that great day of God Almighty.

We see in the Bible what is a final separation of the righteous saints from the wicked, a gathering of the righteous for salvation and deliverance by Christ and His angels, and the gathering of the rebellious wicked to be slain when they fight at this battle. We see more description in Revelation 17 and 19.

Revelation 17:14
12 And the ten horns which thou sawest are ten kings, which have received no kingdom as yet; but receive power as kings one hour with the beast.
13 These have one mind, and shall give their power and strength unto the beast.
14 These shall make war with the Lamb, and the Lamb shall overcome them: for he is Lord of lords, and King of kings: and they that are with him are called, and chosen, and faithful.

Revelation 19:16
11 And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.
12 His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself.
13 And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.
14 And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.
15 And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.
16 And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, King Of Kings, And Lord Of Lords.

We see a similar theme in Zephaniah when God's people are assembled in the day of the Lord.

Zephaniah 2:3
1 Gather yourselves together, yea, gather together, O nation not desired;
2 Before the decree bring forth, before the day pass as the chaff, before the fierce anger of the Lord come upon you, before the day of the Lord's anger come upon you.
3 Seek ye the Lord, all ye meek of the earth, which have wrought his judgment; seek righteousness, seek meekness: it may be ye shall be hid in the day of the Lord's anger.

This battle of the day of the Lord is a development of Gods wrath on the rebellious wicked is presented under what is the symbolic name of Armageddon. The meaning of the word, as evident in the description of the battle itself, is not conclusive, except that all derivations of the word point to the general meaning of gathering or assembling. Let take a look..

Megiddo. This may be a possible reference to the ancient city of Megiddo with a Canaanite fortress at the foot of the Carmel range and was famous as a battlefield down through the centuries, and thus could be a place for "gathering" or "assembling" of armies for attack.

Mount of Megiddo. Here megiddo is assigned the meaning of "the place of God". Thus har (mountain) and megiddo ("place of God") would signify "mountain of the place of God," which makes it basically "the mount of the congregation," where God dwells in heaven.

We see it used in reference to where Lucifer, the devil, seeks to ascend or wants to gain, in Isaiah..

Isaiah 14:12-15
12 How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!
13 For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:
14 I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.
15 Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit.

So we have evil spirits whose leader we know is Satan, assembling of the kings of the earth and the wicked, and as we see it is not necessarily a physical gathering of the armies of the world into one spot on earth, but a battle which involves them against the saints, and the Lord, the King of Kings, Jesus at the Second Coming.

Here is a good study to check out... https://www.whitehorsemedia.com/israel-and-armageddon-facts-vs-fiction/

Greetings again reddogs,

reddogs said:

The thing is it is describing a event which is future, the 'day of the Lord', the Second Coming, a gathering for the saints to be taken up to heaven

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I consider that the faithful will not be taken to heaven as they will rule with Jesus upon the earth from Jerusalem.

reddogs said:

So look how it refers to a gathering of two differing classes of people

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No, only one class, the Battle of Armageddon is a gathering of the armies of the nations.

reddogs said:

the symbolic name of Armageddon. The meaning of the word, as evident in the description of the battle itself, is not conclusive, except that all derivations of the word point to the general meaning of gathering or assembling.

Click to expand...

Another suggestion by a Hebrew scholar is Arema=a heap of sheaves gai==valley don=judgement, hence "a heap of sheaves in the valley for judgement or threshing" and this could be alluding to the following which is a parallel reference to the Battle of Armageddon:
Joel 3:9–14 (KJV): 9 Proclaim ye this among the Gentiles; Prepare war, wake up the mighty men, let all the men of war draw near; let them come up: 10 Beat your plowshares into swords, and your pruninghooks into spears: let the weak say, I am strong. 11 Assemble yourselves, and come, all ye heathen, and gather yourselves together round about: thither cause thy mighty ones to come down, O LORD. 12 Let the heathen be wakened, and come up to the valley of Jehoshaphat: for there will I sit to judge all the heathen round about. 13 Put ye in the sickle, for the harvest is ripe: come, get you down; for the press is full, the fats overflow; for their wickedness is great. 14 Multitudes, multitudes in the valley of decision (mg concision or threshing): for the day of the LORD is near in the valley of decision.
This passage is a development after the return of the Jews to the Holy Land in 1948 and the recapture of Jerusalem in 1967 Joel 3:1-2.

Kind regards
Trevor

reddogs said:

The thing is it is describing a event which is future, the 'day of the Lord', the Second Coming, a gathering for the saints to be taken up to heaven and the devil and his minions come to give battle. So look how it refers to a gathering of two differing classes of people as well as spirits of evil against good. There is a gathering and we see it is demon spirits which work miracles before the leaders of the earth and before the whole world and gather them for the battle against God.

Click to expand...

Yes, I agree it is yet future before the return of Christ, but the Lord's day being the day of the Lord is a day of Gods great wrath being poured out into the world that will have a great impact on those who refuse to repent and accept Jesus as Lord and Savior. It is always pointed out as the day at hand meaning in Gods timing in Rev 1:10. The phrase "the day of the Lord" is used nineteen times in the Old Testament (Isaiah 2:12; 13:6, 9; Ezekiel 13:5, 30:3; Joel 1:15, 2:1,11,31; 3:14; Amos 5:18,20; Obadiah 15; Zephaniah 1:7,14; Zechariah 14:1; Malachi. 4:5) and five times in the New Testament (Acts 2:20; 1 Thessalonians 5:2; 2 Thessalonians 2:2; 2 Peter 3:10; Rev 1:10). It is also alluded to in other passages like Revelation 6:17; 16:14.

TrevorL said:

Greetings again reddogs,

I consider that the faithful will not be taken to heaven as they will rule with Jesus upon the earth from Jerusalem.

No, only one class, the Battle of Armageddon is a gathering of the armies of the nations.

Another suggestion by a Hebrew scholar is Arema=a heap of sheaves gai==valley don=judgement, hence "a heap of sheaves in the valley for judgement or threshing" and this could be alluding to the following which is a parallel reference to the Battle of Armageddon:
Joel 3:9–14 (KJV): 9 Proclaim ye this among the Gentiles; Prepare war, wake up the mighty men, let all the men of war draw near; let them come up: 10 Beat your plowshares into swords, and your pruninghooks into spears: let the weak say, I am strong. 11 Assemble yourselves, and come, all ye heathen, and gather yourselves together round about: thither cause thy mighty ones to come down, O LORD. 12 Let the heathen be wakened, and come up to the valley of Jehoshaphat: for there will I sit to judge all the heathen round about. 13 Put ye in the sickle, for the harvest is ripe: come, get you down; for the press is full, the fats overflow; for their wickedness is great. 14 Multitudes, multitudes in the valley of decision (mg concision or threshing): for the day of the LORD is near in the valley of decision.
This passage is a development after the return of the Jews to the Holy Land in 1948 and the recapture of Jerusalem in 1967 Joel 3:1-2.

Kind regards
Trevor

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Christ comes to take His saints to heaven, not to wander about for a 1000 years. Notice what it says of the Second Coming..
1 Thessalonians 4:15-17
15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

And the reward of the saints..
Matthew 5:12
Rejoice, and be exceeding glad: for great is your reward in heaven: for so persecuted they the prophets which were before you.

Matthew 7:21
Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

Mark 10:21
Then Jesus beholding him loved him, and said unto him, One thing thou lackest: go thy way, sell whatsoever thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come, take up the cross, and follow me.

Luke 6:23
Rejoice ye in that day, and leap for joy: for, behold, your reward is great in heaven: for in the like manner did their fathers unto the prophets.

And it just goes on and on in many verses...

Greetings again reddogs,

reddogs said:

then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

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This is figurative language, and the "air" and "clouds" are not in heaven, but represent the ruling class over the earth. This is similar to the language of the prophets when addressing the rulers and the people of Israel:
Isaiah 1:2 (KJV): Hear, O heavens, and give ear, O earth: for the LORD hath spoken, I have nourished and brought up children, and they have rebelled against me.

reddogs said:

And the reward of the saints..
Matthew 5:12 Rejoice, and be exceeding glad: for great is your reward in heaven: for so persecuted they the prophets which were before you.

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Matthew 5:5 (KJV): Blessed are the meek: for they shall inherit the earth.
The faithful will inherit the earth, not heaven. Jesus will bring our reward when he returns and grant the faithful eternal life.

reddogs said:

And it just goes on and on in many verses...

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I have had two major encounters with SDAs. In my early 20s an SDA lady sent her Pastor and accomplice to my place when she heard of my beliefs and I asked them about the many details concerning the Kingdom of God upon the earth mentioned in the prophets, e.g. Isaiah 2:1-4. His answer was that these details would have been fulfilled if Israel had accepted Jesus as their Messiah.

On a later occasion when I was still in my 20s I encountered a senior SDA at the Sydney Domain where there was open air preaching. In the course of our conversation I asked about Zechariah 14, and he answered that he could not understand why God allowed Zechariah 14 to be placed in the Bible. Both of these references clearly indicate that the Kingdom of God will be upon the earth for the 1000 years and there will be mortal nations that come to literal Jerusalem to worship.

On another occasion I asked a SDA Pastor as to over whom the faithful will be Kings and Priests during the 1000 years. The SDA answer that they will only be looking at the records of the wicked during the 1000 years is the most degrading concept ever imagined.
Revelation 5:9–10 (KJV): 9 And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation; 10 And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.

Kind regards
Trevor

TrevorL said:

Greetings again reddogs,

This is figurative language, and the "air" and "clouds" are not in heaven, but represent the ruling class over the earth. This is similar to the language of the prophets when addressing the rulers and the people of Israel:
Isaiah 1:2 (KJV): Hear, O heavens, and give ear, O earth: for the LORD hath spoken, I have nourished and brought up children, and they have rebelled against me.

Matthew 5:5 (KJV): Blessed are the meek: for they shall inherit the earth.
The faithful will inherit the earth, not heaven. Jesus will bring our reward when he returns and grant the faithful eternal life.

I have had two major encounters with SDAs. In my early 20s an SDA lady sent her Pastor and accomplice to my place when she heard of my beliefs and I asked them about the many details concerning the Kingdom of God upon the earth mentioned in the prophets, e.g. Isaiah 2:1-4. His answer was that these details would have been fulfilled if Israel had accepted Jesus as their Messiah.

On a later occasion when I was still in my 20s I encountered a senior SDA at the Sydney Domain where there was open air preaching. In the course of our conversation I asked about Zechariah 14, and he answered that he could not understand why God allowed Zechariah 14 to be placed in the Bible. Both of these references clearly indicate that the Kingdom of God will be upon the earth for the 1000 years and there will be mortal nations that come to literal Jerusalem to worship.

On another occasion I asked a SDA Pastor as to over whom the faithful will be Kings and Priests during the 1000 years. The SDA answer that they will only be looking at the records of the wicked during the 1000 years is the most degrading concept ever imagined.
Revelation 5:9–10 (KJV): 9 And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation; 10 And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.

Kind regards
Trevor

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Quit asking various religions and understand that which has already been written. One has to study the scriptures, cultures of the different eras, and also history as per the history of the various eras to understand those things which are yet future and that of we being caught up to Jesus when He returns on the last day then this present heaven and earth being burned up and made new again for the New Jerusalem to be ushered down from heaven. There is no literal 1000 years, but being a figurative number, not a literal number as in Deuteronomy 7:9; 1Chronicles 16:15; Psalms 50:10; 90:4; 105:8 Ecc 6:6; 7:28; Daniel 5:1; 2 Peter 3:8. When scripture says Christ returns on the last day it means the last day as there being no more days, but only life eternal within the New Jerusalem.

Hi reddogs

Not sure where you're going with all this, but I do agree with you that the battle referred to as 'Armageddon' will take place after the Lord's return. It will be when the only ones left upon the earth are the wicked. At that time, all the nations of the earth will rise up to do battle against the Lord and his armies.

God bless,
Ted

Greetings "for_his_glory",

for_his_glory said:

Quit asking various religions

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Not sure what you are saying in this opening statement. As for the rest of your post, I believe in the literal reign of Jesus upon the Temple Throne of David in Jerusalem for the 1000 years, with a significant remnant of mortal Israel converted and the mortal nations subjected and learning the ways of God Isaiah 2:1-4, Micah 4:1-8, Daniel 2:35,44, Zechariah 14, Acts 3:19-21 and many other references.

Kind regards
Trevor

TrevorL said:

Greetings "for_his_glory",

Not sure what you are saying in this opening statement. As for the rest of your post, I believe in the literal reign of Jesus upon the Temple Throne of David in Jerusalem for the 1000 years, with a significant remnant of mortal Israel converted and the mortal nations subjected and learning the ways of God Isaiah 2:1-4, Micah 4:1-8, Daniel 2:35,44, Zechariah 14, Acts 3:19-21 and many other references.

Kind regards
Trevor

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You said you were talking to those of the SDA and what they believed and my statement was quit talking to people of other false religions and seek out what the scriptures say. We differ about the 1000 years, but that needs to be another topic as if you want to start one and tag me into it as this thread is about the battle of Armageddon.

Greetings "for_his_glory",

for_his_glory said:

You said you were talking to those of the SDA and what they believed and my statement was quit talking to people of other false religions and seek out what the scriptures say.

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I have been discussing with reddogs who started this thread here and another identical thread on the Battle of Armageddon on another forum. He also started another thread on that other forum on the Millennium with seven large detailed posts which are from a SDA point of view.

for_his_glory said:

We differ about the 1000 years, but that needs to be another topic as if you want to start one and tag me into it as this thread is about the battle of Armageddon.

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I am prepared to discuss the Battle of Armageddon directly with you, but I suggest that the subject includes considering the events that lead up to the Battle of Armageddon, the Battle itself, and then the events after the Battle. I suggest that part of this is the teaching of the 1000 years, as a different perspective affects what the Battle of Armageddon is meant to achieve.

I was interested in your map in Post #3 and the attempt to identify some of the nations involved from Ezekiel 38. I am not sure if you fully endorse all the details mentioned on this map, but I agree with some aspects, but I am uncertain about some of the detail. I agree that Ezekiel 38 is another description of the Battle of Armageddon. Do you agree with the details concerning the nation of Israel before the Battle in Ezekiel 38, then the conversion of a significant remnant of national Israel in Ezekiel 39, then the establishment of the 3rd Temple in Ezekiel 40-48?

for_his_glory said:

Rev 20:8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.
Have you ever considered the war of Gog and Magog is the same as the battle of Armageddon as we study Ezekiel 38:1-6 which actually names all who will come against Israel in the end of days being Gog, the land of Magog, the chief prince of Meshech and Tubal, Persia, Ethiopia, Libya, Gomer and all his bands; the house of Togarmah of the north quarters, and all his bands. In this battle, this Gog-Magog War, this Armageddon battle, is a different type of battle from any other ones found in scripture including the king of the north and south in Daniel 11.

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I consider that Revelation 16:12-16 and Ezekiel 38 are describing the Battle of Armageddon which is before the 1000 years, while Revelation 20:8 is at the end of the 1000 years.

for_his_glory said:

Within this battle the first six trumpets of God's wrath will be poured out into the world, Ezekiel 38:17-19, as we read in Rev 8:6 being the first trumpet sounding that takes us to the seventh trumpet of God's great wrath in Rev 11:15-19 and the timing of the son of perdition during the time of the seventh trumpet that promises a false peace and safety if all will take the mark of this beast, 2Thessalonians 4:1-12; Rev 13.

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I disagree fully.

for_his_glory said:

The reference to “the time of the end” in verse 35 is thought by some to be a reference to the time just before Christ returns.

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I consider that "the time of the end" mentioned in Daniel 11:40 is the start of a sequence of events that lead up to the return of Christ and hence Daniel 11:40-45 is another parallel account of the Battle of Armageddon.

for_his_glory said:

When scripture says Christ returns on the last day it means the last day as there being no more days, but only life eternal within the New Jerusalem.

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I understand that "the last days" are more than one day, but encompass a period of time and the following indicates a period of transition between the Battle of Armageddon and the full establishment of the Kingdom of God upon the earth for the 1000 years.
Isaiah 2:1–4 (KJV): 1 The word that Isaiah the son of Amoz saw concerning Judah and Jerusalem. 2 And it shall come to pass in the last days, that the mountain of the LORD’S house shall be established in the top of the mountains, and shall be exalted above the hills; and all nations shall flow unto it. 3 And many people shall go and say, Come ye, and let us go up to the mountain of the LORD, to the house of the God of Jacob; and he will teach us of his ways, and we will walk in his paths: for out of Zion shall go forth the law, and the word of the LORD from Jerusalem. 4 And he shall judge among the nations, and shall rebuke many people: and they shall beat their swords into plowshares, and their spears into pruninghooks: nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall they learn war any more.

Kind regards
Trevor

I quit worrying about Armageddon many years ago, when I figured out that today has enough to worry about.

Hopeful 2 said:

I quit worrying about Armageddon many years ago, when I figured out that today has enough to worry about.

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Hi Hopeful 2

Which oddly enough is what Jesus told us to do. But certainly 'worry', at least in my mind, isn't quite the same as discussing what may be in store for God's realm of creation in the future.

God bless,
Ted

reddogs TrevorL

First I do not see 1000 years being literal, but only being a figurative number, not a literal number as in Deuteronomy 7:9; 1Chronicles 16:15; Psalms 50:10; 90:4; 105:8 Ecc 6:6; 7:28; Daniel 5:1; 2 Peter 3:8. Why would God have us wait another 1000 years after being caught up to Christ after He returns on the last day.


Rev 16:12 And the sixth angel poured out his vial upon the great river Euphrates; and the water thereof was dried up, that the way of the kings of the east might be prepared.
Rev 16:13 And I saw three unclean spirits like frogs come out of the mouth of the dragon, and out of the mouth of the beast, and out of the mouth of the false prophet.
Rev 16:14 For they are the spirits of devils, working miracles, which go forth unto the kings of the earth and of the whole world, to gather them to the battle of that great day of God Almighty.
Rev 16:15 Behold, I come as a thief. Blessed is he that watcheth, and keepeth his garments, lest he walk naked, and they see his shame.
Rev 16:16 And he gathered them together into a place called in the Hebrew tongue Armageddon.

Armageddon, Harmageddon, Mageddon known in a few ways of different spellings, but being a city called Megiddo found in the Jezreel Valley between Nazareth and Jerusalem being a place of troops, or an assembly of troops, or a gathering of troops; or a mountain assembly of troops, or a mountain rendezvous of troops, or a mountain gathering of troops.
And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison and shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog to gather them together to battle the number of whom is as the sand of the sea. And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them. And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever. Rev 20:7-10.

Let's take a closer look at Rev 20:7-10.
1. After the 1000 years are expired Satan will be set loose, but doesn't say how long he is set loose before he is cast into the lake of fire.

2. Satan goes out immediatly to deceive the nations.

3. These nations are in the four quarters of the earth, (N S E W) that Satan gathers together as the enemies of God are great as the numbering of the sand of the sea.

4. Four quarters of the earth are east, west, north and south as described in Ezekiel 38:1-6 in all who come against Israel in the final battle called Armageddon.

5. The breadth of the earth means the saints that are camped not only in Jerusalem the beloved city of God, but also throughout the breadth of the earth.

6. God sends fire down from heaven to devour/destroy the enemies of God and Satan is cast into the lake of fire where the beast and false prophet are.

Notice where it says the beast and false prophet are, as that happens when Christ returns in the air with His army of angels, Rev 19:11-21, before planting His feet on the Mt of Olives.


Rev 20:7-10 is the defeat of Satan after the battle of Armageddon where he calls all the nations to come against Israel one last time as prophecied in Ezekiel 38:1-6 that descibes these nations. In this battle, this Gog-Magog War, this Armageddon battle, is a different type of battle from any other ones found in scripture including the king of the north and south in Daniel 11 as this takes place after Satan is bound and then set loose for what I believe is a symbolic in it's numbering like that of a figurative number, not a literal number as in Deuteronomy 7:9; 1Chronicles 16:15; Psalms 50:10; 90:4; 105:8 Ecc 6:6; 7:28; Daniel 5:1; 2 Peter 3:8. 7:9;1Chronicles16:15; Psalms 50:10; 90:4; 105:8 Ecc 6:6; 7:28; Daniel 5:1; 2 Peter 3:8.

Those that have rejected Christ that still remain on earth after the beast, false prophet and all the ruling leaders from every nation that followed after the beast are destroyed, Rev 19:11-21 are those who are the numbering as the sand of the sea. These are the enemy of God that Satan uses to battle against the saints during the battle of Armageddon that are camped upon the breadth of the earth after Satan is released for a season. The saints are camped not only in Jerusalem the beloved city of God, but also throughout the breadth of the earth. It's only the 144,000 generational Jews that believe in Christ that have returned to Jerusalem. After the 1000 years are fulfilled Satan is set loosed for a season and goes out to deceive the nations as he gathers the enemies of Christ to battle against the saints as the numbering of unbelievers is like the sand of the sea. As the enemy surrounds the camp of the saints God sends fire down from heaven and destroys the enemy and Satan is cast into the lake of fire. Zechariah 14; Luke 21:20-22 and Rev 16:16 mentions the battle of Armageddon when Christ and His army of angels return as Christ plants His feet on the mount of Olives for the final battle as Gog and Magog found in Ezekiel Chapter 38 is the battle of Rev 20:7-9.

As I understand all of this it happens at the time of Christ return as I see everything happening very quickly as being the last day when Christ returns for at that time all evil will be destroyed by the brightness of His coming, this present heaven and earth will pass away and restored again before the New Jerusalem will be ushered down from heaven, Rev 21:1-8.