“Full Assurance of Faith” (Hebrews 10:22)

[netchaplain]

Which is the common thinking among Protestant Christians--faith is an either/or proposition, not a weak vs. strong issue as Jesus presented it. I learned that it's extremely damaging to weak, but saved, Christians when you talk about faith in an either/or way, instead of how Christ presented it in a weak vs. strong way in the parable of the soil (Luke 8:11-15 NASB).

Our understanding differs to one another concerning the sower's parable. It's my understanding that only the "good ground" had faith. It's okay that we disagree, but my interpretation of "believe for a while" is meant appeared to believe for a while. This is the only passage in Scripture termed like this that gives the appearance that one can believe then disbelieve, which to me is an oxymoron.

 

[GodsGrace]

Our understanding differs to one another concerning the sower's parable. It's my understanding that only the "good ground" had faith. It's okay that we disagree, but my interpretation of "believe for a while" is meant appeared to believe for a while. This is the only passage in Scripture termed like this that gives the appearance that one can believe then disbelieve, which to me is an oxymoron.

Gives the appearance?
Oxymoron?
Jesus didn't know exactly what He meant to say?
He contradicted Himself? (which is what an oxymoron is of course)

W

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

Gives the appearance?
Oxymoron?
Jesus didn't know exactly what He meant to say?
He contradicted Himself? (which is what an oxymoron is of course)

W

Yes, an oxymoron.
Therefore, it must mean something else.

 

[JLB]

Our understanding differs to one another concerning the sower's parable. It's my understanding that only the "good ground" had faith. It's okay that we disagree, but my interpretation of "believe for a while" is meant appeared to believe for a while. This is the only passage in Scripture termed like this that gives the appearance that one can believe then disbelieve, which to me is an oxymoron.

Believe = Saved

Believe for a while = Saved for a while.


JLB

 

[netchaplain]

Gives the appearance?
Oxymoron?
Jesus didn't know exactly what He meant to say?
He contradicted Himself? (which is what an oxymoron is of course)

W

What may seem a contradiction from one can be an understanding to another:

Best explanation I've found:

Gill - which for a while believe: "their faith is a temporary one, like that of Simon Magus; which shows it is not true faith; for that is an abiding grace, Christ, who is the author, is the finisher of it, and prays for it, that it fail not. The Persic version renders it, "in the time of hearing they have faith"; and such sort of hearers there are, who, whilst they are hearing, assent to what they hear, but when they are gone, either forget it, or, falling into bad company, are prevailed upon to doubt of it, and disbelieve it. The Arabic version renders it, "they believe for a small time"; their faith do not continue long, nor their profession of it, both are soon dropped."

Concerning Simon in Acts 8:13 on the phrase "Simon himself believed," I see nothing to indicate what is meant here concerned belief in God, but rather in what he saw the apostles and the Spirit of God doing. The rest of chapter 8 has no indication of Simon having faith in God, even though he claimed to be of God (vs 9, 10) and was baptized (v 13).

 

[GodsGrace]

What may seem a contradiction from one can be an understanding to another:

Best explanation I've found:

Gill - which for a while believe: "their faith is a temporary one, like that of Simon Magus; which shows it is not true faith; for that is an abiding grace, Christ, who is the author, is the finisher of it, and prays for it, that it fail not. The Persic version renders it, "in the time of hearing they have faith"; and such sort of hearers there are, who, whilst they are hearing, assent to what they hear, but when they are gone, either forget it, or, falling into bad company, are prevailed upon to doubt of it, and disbelieve it. The Arabic version renders it, "they believe for a small time"; their faith do not continue long, nor their profession of it, both are soon dropped."

Concerning Simon in Acts 8:13 on the phrase "Simon himself believed," I see nothing to indicate what is meant here concerned belief in God, but rather in what he saw the apostles and the Spirit of God doing. The rest of chapter 8 has no indication of Simon having faith in God, even though he claimed to be of God (vs 9, 10) and was baptized (v 13).

You're explaining the parable of the sower.
There is no contradiction. There is no aximoron.
Jesus plainly said that some seed falls among the thorns then the worries of the world and the deceitfulness of riches, as in Simon's case, enter in a choke (kill) the word and it becomes unfruitful.
Mark 4:18-19

Jesus is clearly stating in the parable of the sower that it is possible for someone to hear and accept the word and then abandon it. Abandon belief.

Another group of persons who become lost after receiving the word are those in
Mark 4:16-17
They receive the Word (accept it), they experience joy, but they do not have a firm root (learning, practicing the faith, fellowshipping) and when something goes wrong in life, persecution, sickness, etc., they abandon the faith.

Jesus repeatedly stated that it's necessary to continue believing and having faith to be saved.

Jesus said that if we wish to follow Him, we are to take up our cross daily. IF we wish to follow Him. This means it is possible NOT to wish to follow Him. He's setting a condition. IF we follow Him, we are His, IF we don't follow Him, we are not His.

And how would you explain Ephesians 6:10-12?
If we are to put on the full armor of God and be strong so as to stand against the wiles of the devil

Ephesians 6:13-14
We are to stand firm, to hold on, to persevere
Ephesians 6:18

W

 

[JLB]

Gives the appearance?
Oxymoron?
Jesus didn't know exactly what He meant to say?
He contradicted Himself? (which is what an oxymoron is of course)

W

:amen

What out!

That browned eyed girl is at it again.

 

[JLB]

Jesus is clearly stating in the parable of the sower that it is possible for someone to hear and accept the word and then abandon it. Abandon belief.

Belief being the very thing by which we are saved.

Those by the wayside are the ones who hear; then the devil comes and takes away the word out of their hearts, lest they should believe and be saved. Luke 8:12



JLB

 

[netchaplain]

Another group of persons who become lost after receiving the word are those in
Mark 4:16-17
They receive the Word (accept it), they experience joy, but they do not have a firm root (learning, practicing the faith, fellowshipping) and when something goes wrong in life, persecution, sickness, etc., they abandon the faith.

Gill: And these are they likewise which are sown on stony ground,.... "Such sort of hearers of the word are signified by the stony ground, on which the seed were sown, who are constant hearers of the word, and have some understanding of it, and some sort of affection for it, and yet their hearts are not truly broken by it; they are not brought to a thorough sight and sense of sin, and of their need of Christ, and salvation by him."

 

[GodsGrace]

Gill: And these are they likewise which are sown on stony ground,.... "Such sort of hearers of the word are signified by the stony ground, on which the seed were sown, who are constant hearers of the word, and have some understanding of it, and some sort of affection for it, and yet their hearts are not truly broken by it; they are not brought to a thorough sight and sense of sin, and of their need of Christ, and salvation by him."

Yes.

I'd say this is biblical...

W

 

[JLB]

Gill: And these are they likewise which are sown on stony ground,.... "Such sort of hearers of the word are signified by the stony ground, on which the seed were sown, who are constant hearers of the word, and have some understanding of it, and some sort of affection for it, and yet their hearts are not truly broken by it; they are not brought to a thorough sight and sense of sin, and of their need of Christ, and salvation by him."

The believed... it's that simple.

They believed... for a while.

Then under the heat of persecution, they turned away from Him, back to unbelieving.


JLB

 

[netchaplain]

Belief being the very thing by which we are saved.

Those by the wayside are the ones who hear; then the devil comes and takes away the word out of their hearts, lest they should believe and be saved. Luke 8:12

It's not "by faith" but "by grace," and grace provides faith "through which we are saved." Nothing here indicates faith being produced by us, just receiving it and being use by God in it. The point is not to claim any credit in the formation of faith, that's God's credit. I say it like this not to out of personal refute but to get at the truth.

 

[netchaplain]

Yes.

I'd say this is biblical...

W

Just making the point that the phrase "immediately receive it with gladness" does not mean they received faith from it but received joy in the hearing of it for whatever reason.

Thanks for your laborious input!

 

[netchaplain]

The believed... it's that simple.

They believed... for a while.

Then under the heat of persecution, they turned away from Him, back to unbelieving.


JLB

Too simple, gotta want to dig deeper for the golden nuggets.

 

[JLB]

It's not "by faith" but "by grace," and grace provides faith "through which we are saved." Nothing here indicates faith being produced by us,

Faith being produced by us?

Who said that?

Faith comes from God.

Faith comes by hearing the word [Rhema] of God.

 

[GodsGrace]

netchaplain

Ephesians 2:8

For we are saved BY grace THROUGH faith..

It is grace that saves us but it is ACCESSED through faith.

Everyone receives grace.
Not everyone has faith.

Grace falls even on the wicked.
Isaiah 26:10
Mathew 5:45
Acts 14:17

W

 

[JLB]

Just making the point that the phrase "immediately receive it with gladness" does not mean they received faith from it but received joy in the hearing of it for whatever reason.

Thanks for your laborious input!

If they received it with gladness, then they received faith, that comes by hearing the word..

No question about it.

Believing is our part, it's the part we do... it's a verb, an action word.

Faith comes from God... it's a noun, it's what comes from God when He speaks to us.

When the Gospel is heard, and received with gladness, that means it's believed.

Believing is the very thing we are to do, to be saved.

Just read what Jesus taught:

Those by the wayside are the ones who hear; then the devil comes and takes away the word out of their hearts, lest they should believe and be saved. Luke 8:12

Believe = Saved


JLB

 

[netchaplain]

Faith being produced by us?

Who said that?

Faith comes from God.

Faith comes by hearing the word [Rhema] of God.

Sorry, just thought it important to express (for instruction only, wasn't an accusation, though I see how it could seem so by the way I presented it) the significance of differentiating between "by" and "through." I believe many have not realized this yet and I'm concerned for their good.

 

[netchaplain]

netchaplain

Ephesians 2:8

For we are saved BY grace THROUGH faith..

It is grace that saves us but it is ACCESSED through faith.

Everyone receives grace.
Not everyone has faith.

Grace falls even on the wicked.
Isaiah 26:10
Mathew 5:45
Acts 14:17

W

I see no indication of the grace of faith and salvation (which are inseparable and come simultaneously) in these passages. But I understand how it might be concluded so by the way they read

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

netchaplain

Ephesians 2:8

For we are saved BY grace THROUGH faith..

It is grace that saves us but it is ACCESSED through faith.

Everyone receives grace.
Not everyone has faith.

Grace falls even on the wicked.
Isaiah 26:10
Mathew 5:45
Acts 14:17

W

Not everyone has faith?
Romans 12:3;