“Full Assurance of Faith” (Hebrews 10:22)

[ezra]

The very real heresy is that it is repeatedly and specifically refuted by scripture.

For example: (This will require that you have a very clear understanding of what the word "IF" means.)

RO 11:17 If some of the branches have been broken off, and you, though a wild olive shoot, have been grafted in among the others and now share in the nourishing sap from the olive root, 18 do not boast over those branches. If you do, consider this: You do not support the root, but the root supports you. 19 You will say then, "Branches were broken off so that I could be grafted in." 20 Granted. But they were broken off because of unbelief, and you stand by faith. Do not be arrogant, but be afraid. 21 For IF GOD DID NOT SPARE THE NATURAL BRANCHES, HE WILL NOT SPARE YOU EITHER.

22 CONSIDER THEREFORE THE KINDNESS AND STERNNESS OF GOD: STERNNESS TO THOSE WHO FELL, BUT KINDNESS TO YOU, PROVIDED THAT YOU CONTINUE IN HIS KINDNESS. OTHERWISE, YOU ALSO WILL BE CUT OFF.
("Provided that" is synonymous with the word "if".)

and

COL 1:21 Once you were alienated from God and were enemies in your minds because of your evil behavior. 22 But now HE HAS RECONCILED YOU BY CHRIST'S PHYSICAL BODY THROUGH DEATH TO PRESENT YOU HOLY IN HIS SIGHT, WITHOUT BLEMISH AND FREE FROM ACCUSATION-- 23 IF YOU CONTINUE IN YOUR FAITH, established and firm, not moved from the hope held out in the gospel.

and

HEB 3:12 See to it, brothers, that none of you has a sinful, unbelieving heart that turns away from the living God. 13 But encourage one another daily, as long as it is called Today, so that none of you may be hardened by sin's deceitfulness. 14 WE HAVE COME TO SHARE IN CHRIST IF WE HOLD FIRMLY TILL THE END THE CONFIDENCE WE HAD AT FIRST.

There are more.
I have posted them often.
OSAS people believe those scriptures do not mean what they very explicitly say.
I assume that is because they hold the words of the heretic John Calvin above the words of scripture.

iakov the sool

lol good religious statement To him who is able to keep you from falling and to present you before his glorious presence without fault and with great joy- to the only God our Savior be glory, majesty, power and authority, through Jesus Christ our Lord, before all ages, now and forevermore! Amen. – Jude 1:24-25 can you explain this scripture? understand i do lean toward osas but not like most do . i look at it more as a security 1 Peter 1:
A Living Hope

3Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ! By His great mercy, He has given us new birth into a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, 4and into an inheritance that is imperishable, undefiled, and unfading, reserved in heaven for you, 5who through faith are protected by God’s power for the salvation that is ready to be revealed in the last time.
A Living Hope

i certainly do not agree with john calvin but i fail to see your point on heresy

 

[GodsGrace]

lol good religious statement To him who is able to keep you from falling and to present you before his glorious presence without fault and with great joy- to the only God our Savior be glory, majesty, power and authority, through Jesus Christ our Lord, before all ages, now and forevermore! Amen. – Jude 1:24-25 can you explain this scripture? understand i do lean toward osas but not like most do . i look at it more as a security 1 Peter 1:
A Living Hope

3Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ! By His great mercy, He has given us new birth into a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, 4and into an inheritance that is imperishable, undefiled, and unfading, reserved in heaven for you, 5who through faith are protected by God’s power for the salvation that is ready to be revealed in the last time.
A Living Hope

i certainly do not agree with john calvin but i fail to see your point on heresy

Haven't been following along very well. Sorry.
But how do you NOT agree with Calvin and NOT agree with Jim Parker?
Heresy is departing from accepted beliefs. The early church believed you not only had to work for your salvation, but could also lose it. It took John Calvin to come up with the idea of eternal salvation.

My only question would be regarding free will.
Do we have free will or not?
If we don't, this is all a play and we're the actors.
If we do, do we lose that free will upon becoming saved?

W

 

[Jim Parker]

i certainly do not agree with john calvin

You agree with him on the preservation of the saints. (The "P" in TULIP)

i fail to see your point on heresy

That's obvious.

 

[ezra]

Haven't been following along very well. Sorry.
But how do you NOT agree with Calvin and NOT agree with Jim Parker?
Heresy is departing from accepted beliefs. The early church believed you not only had to work for your salvation, but could also lose it. It took John Calvin to come up with the idea of eternal salvation.

My only question would be regarding free will.
Do we have free will or not?
If we don't, this is all a play and we're the actors.
If we do, do we lose that free will upon becoming saved?

W

i take it you hold to Calvinism as per not agreeing with jim in many areas i dont agree . it does not make him guilty of heresy and i really dont know who came up with eternal salvation for a doctrine . i post in another forum on Calvinism and yes it is a Calvinism forum. the famous words from several in there when one does not agree . the words are false teaching ..... so do we go to every church that does not believe like us and pronounce heretic on them? i dont accept calvinist belief but they are just as saved as i am .as long as they come through Jesus

 

[GodsGrace]

i take it you hold to Calvinism as per not agreeing with jim in many areas i dont agree . it does not make him guilty of heresy and i really dont know who came up with eternal salvation for a doctrine . i post in another forum on Calvinism and yes it is a Calvinism forum. the famous words from several in there when one does not agree . the words are false teaching ..... so do we go to every church that does not believe like us and pronounce heretic on them? i dont accept calvinist belief but they are just as saved as i am .as long as they come through Jesus

I'm sorry. I'm a bit confused.
Jim Parker does NOT believe in Calvinism.
If you don't agree with him, it means you agree with Calvin.
Sorry if I misunderstood.
I'm with Jim Parker.
I believe salvation can be lost or we lose our free will.
I do believe that some teachings can be heretical and Calvinism is one of them.

W

 

[ezra]

You agree with him on the preservation of the saints. (The "P" in TULIP)

That's obvious.

and??????????? that will send me to hell? preservation of the saints. is those who are truly saved will hang in there and if they fall they will return . actually i believed in our security way long before i even understood tulip or calvinism . a minister whom i had deep respect for once said thank God i got saved before i became a baptist. he just departed this life this week. 56 years of preaching what i believe on i stand firm and for the record i am ordained general baptist . which they do not teach osas . i got this on my own study of the Bible

 

[ezra]

I'm sorry. I'm a bit confused.
Jim Parker does NOT believe in Calvinism.
If you don't agree with him, it means you agree with Calvin.
Sorry if I misunderstood.
I'm with Jim Parker.
I believe salvation can be lost or we lose our free will.
I do believe that some teachings can be heretical and Calvinism is one of them.

W

it does not matter to me how you believe. as long as you believe 1. you must be born again after that baptized 2. death burial resurrection of Christ according to scriptures 3. jesus way truth life no man comes to father but through Him . fill in the blank paul wrote to the church at Philippians _ _ _ _ your own salvation with fear and trembling so no rest your mind i am not calvinist ..i am forgiven and a blood bought child of the King.

 

[GodsGrace]

it does not matter to me how you believe. as long as you believe 1. you must be born again after that baptized 2. death burial resurrection of Christ according to scriptures 3. jesus way truth life no man comes to father but through Him . fill in the blank paul wrote to the church at Philippians _ _ _ _ your own salvation with fear and trembling so no rest your mind i am not calvinist ..i am forgiven and a blood bought child of the King.

Okay. I'm good with all you said.
Except one little thing;
Do you believe you MUST be baptized to be saved?

 

[Jim Parker]

i got this on my own study of the Bible

I'm sure you did.

 

[ezra]

Okay. I'm good with all you said.
Except one little thing;
Do you believe you MUST be baptized to be saved?

to be saved ?--NO it follows salvation

 

[ezra]

I'm sure you did.

ok so how did you come to your conclusion

 

[Jim Parker]

ok so how did you come to your conclusion

I already answered the last time you asked.
See my post #58

 

[ezra]

I already answered the last time you asked.
See my post #58

very well but that not what i asked

 

[Jim Parker]

very well but that not what i asked

Perhaps I misunderstood you.
Please clarify what you are asking.

 

[ezra]

Perhaps I misunderstood you.
Please clarify what you are asking.

nothing to misunderstand i stated how i came to how i believe. i asked you in return . so curious does it matter if some part of how i believe falls under the p with tulip? i came to this conclusion way before i ever understood calvinism.. i have even semi studied how Pentecostals believe areas i agree with areas i dont.

 

[Jim Parker]

does it matter if some part of how i believe falls under the p with tulip?

YEs. Since that would put your belief in direct contradiction to scripture. It would matter.
I don't think it is a matter which would negate your salvation but it is still a false doctrine.

 

[netchaplain]

Since there is nothing in the passage to suggest that the admonishments are given as a tool to identify false professors of faith, I must conclude that it is a fabrication designed to teach that scripture doesn't really say what it very clearly does say. It is a necessary invention of those who wish to give the appearance of biblicity to the OSAS heresy.

It's okay that we differ in beliefs, and I understand why you say what you say, because of the way Scripture often reads, but Scripture is obscure in quite a few places and one must dig around the difficult places to get to the gold you know is there.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

To assign your meaning to the verse is not rightly dividing the scripture. "A person who has never believed, or stopped believing surely is not holding fast" isn't the way this verse is presented.

In the parable of the sower, which soil did Jesus say held fast the word?

15“But the seed in the good soil, these are the ones who have heard the word in an honest and good heart, and hold it fast, and bear fruit with perseverance." (Luke 8:15 NASB)

Jesus himself cites holding fast the word as that of the believer, not one who never believed (the 1st type of soil), nor the one who stops believing (the 2nd type of soil). So when Paul says "you are saved if hold fast the word" (1 Corinthians 15:2 NASB) he means the condition for being saved is that you continue to believe the gospel word. It's a condition. You lose salvation if you do not continue to believe. Paul is saying this to people who he himself says are standing in the gospel. In fact, the 'if' in Greek indicates that they are surely saved. They are satisfying the requirement to remain saved--they are holding fast in their belief in the gospel.

 

[Jim Parker]

Scripture is obscure in quite a few places and one must dig around the difficult places to get to the gold you know is there.

Obscurity is not a license to insert one's personal opinions or even denominational dogma.
The messages of scripture are not unconnected fragments. They are a consistent whole.
Verse numbers are an artificial matrix inserted into the Bible for convenience. Lifting a verse is lifting a piece of a passage out of its context. Lifting a series of verses to create a facade of a teaching is what "proof-texting" is about.
That is what you have been doing.
It is not an acceptable manner in which to do theology.

 

[ezra]

YEs. Since that would put your belief in direct contradiction to scripture. It would matter.
I don't think it is a matter which would negate your salvation but it is still a false doctrine.

ok i see any thing out side your circle of belief /doctrine/ denomination is false . i had a feeling all along it would be this way. since you hold the correct teaching there is no need to continue this . so i guess i could assume any one out side your belief will not enter the kingdom of heaven . enjoy your spot at the throne with Jesus .the rest of us gentiles will go to hell