1 Corinthians 14:18

[Nick]

Ok, so I was reading 1 Corinthians 14 the other day. So I'm reading about tongues, and about how Paul wants them to all speak in tongues, but would rather then prophecy so they may build up each other etc etc. Fair enough.

But this is the part I don't get - after going on about that, in verse 18, Paul then says this: (ESV)

I thank God that I speak in tongues more than all of you. ​

To me, it seems a bit contradictory and a tad out of place in the context of the rest of the section.

Am I missing something here?

 

[jasoncran]

he operates in the gift of tounges or the holy spirit better then they do. if one is carnal one tends not to pray much thus not as active in the spirit.

 

[Nick]

he operates in the gift of tounges or the holy spirit better then they do. if one is carnal one tends not to pray much thus not as active in the spirit.

Well I thought that obvious, but my question is more like why does Paul say that about his speaking in tongues, not prophecy, given what he's just said before this verse?

And trust the pentacostal to reply to my thread on tongues within 4 minutes of it being posted.

 

[jasoncran]

well why wouldnt the pentacostal(charismatic) respond as i speak from expercience. that is the truth we walk in the spirit when we are in the word, attend chruch and pray.

ok, lets see

1 Corinthians 14



1Follow after charity, and desire spiritual gifts, but rather that ye may prophesy.
2For he that speaketh in an unknown tongue speaketh not unto men, but unto God: for no man understandeth him; howbeit in the spirit he speaketh mysteries.
3But he that prophesieth speaketh unto men to edification, and exhortation, and comfort.
4He that speaketh in an unknown tongue edifieth himself; but he that prophesieth edifieth the church.
5I would that ye all spake with tongues but rather that ye prophesied: for greater is he that prophesieth than he that speaketh with tongues, except he interpret, that the church may receive edifying.
6Now, brethren, if I come unto you speaking with tongues, what shall I profit you, except I shall speak to you either by revelation, or by knowledge, or by prophesying, or by doctrine?
7And even things without life giving sound, whether pipe or harp, except they give a distinction in the sounds, how shall it be known what is piped or harped?
8For if the trumpet give an uncertain sound, who shall prepare himself to the battle?
9So likewise ye, except ye utter by the tongue words easy to be understood, how shall it be known what is spoken? for ye shall speak into the air.
10There are, it may be, so many kinds of voices in the world, and none of them is without signification.
11Therefore if I know not the meaning of the voice, I shall be unto him that speaketh a barbarian, and he that speaketh shall be a barbarian unto me.
12Even so ye, forasmuch as ye are zealous of spiritual gifts, seek that ye may excel to the edifying of the church.
13Wherefore let him that speaketh in an unknown tongue pray that he may interpret.
14For if I pray in an unknown tongue, my spirit prayeth, but my understanding is unfruitful.
15What is it then? I will pray with the spirit, and I will pray with the understanding also: I will sing with the spirit, and I will sing with the understanding also.
16Else when thou shalt bless with the spirit, how shall he that occupieth the room of the unlearned say Amen at thy giving of thanks, seeing he understandeth not what thou sayest?
17For thou verily givest thanks well, but the other is not edified. 18I thank my God, I speak with tongues more than ye all:

ok he is talking about prayer time with the lord and praying for edification, meaning that in private one should pray in "tounges".

 

[Gazelle]

Not all references refer to the "glossolalia" ( the vocalizing of speech-like syllables) but to actual spoken languages.
Paul told the Corinthians that they must use their physical organ of speech (i.e., tongue) to produce intelligible speech. If they do not, they will be speaking uselessly into the air (14:9).

It could be simply that Paul himself spoke Greek, Aramaic and Hebrew and perhaps even a few more languages since he was well learned and travelled. This reference to speaking more than all of them is a gift of God to Paul because he did travel extensively preaching God's Word and needed to be able to speak their "tongues."

He's an interesting article, imo: http://homepage.mac.com/shanerosenthal/reformationink/rzcor.htm

 

[Sinthesis]

Ok, so I was reading 1 Corinthians 14 the other day. So I'm reading about tongues, and about how Paul wants them to all speak in tongues, but would rather then prophecy so they may build up each other etc etc. Fair enough.

But this is the part I don't get - after going on about that, in verse 18, Paul then says this: (ESV)

I thank God that I speak in tongues more than all of you. ​

To me, it seems a bit contradictory and a tad out of place in the context of the rest of the section.

Am I missing something here?

1Cr 14:18 - I thank my God, I speak with tongues more than ye all:
1Cr 14:19 - Yet in the church I had rather speak five words with my understanding, that [by my voice] I might teach others also, than ten thousand words in an [unknown] tongue.​

Probably just a colloquial way of saying:

I can speak in tongues better than any of you, but when preaching the Gospel to others I believe five words in a shared language are better than ten thousand words with no meaning to the audience.​

 

[Nick]

well why wouldnt the pentacostal(charismatic) respond as i speak from expercience. that is the truth we walk in the spirit when we are in the word, attend chruch and pray.

ok, lets see



ok he is talking about prayer time with the lord and praying for edification, meaning that in private one should pray in "tounges".

1Cr 14:18 - I thank my God, I speak with tongues more than ye all:
1Cr 14:19 - Yet in the church I had rather speak five words with my understanding, that [by my voice] I might teach others also, than ten thousand words in an [unknown] tongue.​

Probably just a colloquial way of saying:

I can speak in tongues better than any of you, but when preaching the Gospel to others I believe five words in a shared language are better than ten thousand words with no meaning to the audience.​

Thanks brothers. :nod



Oh and Jason....my pentacostal comment was a joke.

 

[Nick]

Not all references refer to the "glossolalia" ( the vocalizing of speech-like syllables) but to actual spoken languages.
Paul told the Corinthians that they must use their physical organ of speech (i.e., tongue) to produce intelligible speech. If they do not, they will be speaking uselessly into the air (14:9).

It could be simply that Paul himself spoke Greek, Aramaic and Hebrew and perhaps even a few more languages since he was well learned and travelled. This reference to speaking more than all of them is a gift of God to Paul because he did travel extensively preaching God's Word and needed to be able to speak their "tongues."

He's an interesting article, imo: http://homepage.mac.com/shanerosenthal/reformationink/rzcor.htm

I may read the article, but it's really long! (sorry!)

But from your post...

That tends to be my understanding too, that tongues tend to be human languages, although it may not be limited to that.

 

[jasoncran]

Thanks brothers. :nod



Oh and Jason....my pentacostal comment was a joke.

i know, but well any chapter or threads on tounges tends to get my attention. i may not post in them lately but i do read them.

pagin bonairos.

 

[Bonairos]

i know, but well any chapter or threads on tounges tends to get my attention. i may not post in them lately but i do read them.

pagin bonairos.

You provoke me to get involved my comrade! (BTW, the secret juice at last night's meeting in the church basement was awesome. Everyone was "tongue" talking after a few sips! HAHA)


As for the text, I read Paul to be instructing the church on how to be most effective in the use of tongues. Sort of like instructing someone on how to use a sword. Use it the wrong way and you or someone else could be hurt. Use a sword properly and it will benefit you (and others).

Verse 12, "since you are zealous for spiritual gifts (position) . . . let it be for (motive) . . . the edification of the church (to include public meetings) that you seek to excel (in this zeal)."

and v.13 begins, "therefore . . ." keeping in mind Paul is talking about the gift of tongues in a public setting.

He is in no way knocking the gift of tongues (for in doing so he would also be knocking the Giver of the gift).

In exhorting the Corinthians to use this gift (weapon of warfare?) in a public setting and the restraints(?) needed to be effective, one could conclude that Paul was dismissing or limiting it's use altogether.

Not so. Therefore he states in v.18 that he not only speaks in tongues alot (whether privately or publicly, yet the issue here is publicly), but he also thanks God for the ability to do so.

I believe Paul was stating a personal revelation of himself and thanking God for it. " . . . more than you all."

Now did Paul speak in tongues more than anyone else? Maybe. But then again he also referred to himself as "the chief sinner." Was he the chief sinner of all mankind?

The Apostle John also referred to himself as "the disciple who Jesus loved." Was he the only disciple loved by Jesus?

Were these men comparing themselves to others? Or were they simply stating a revelation that they had of themselves, within themselves?

"I thank my God I speak in tongues more than you all . . ."

Yet even in this ability and availability, Paul said (paraphrasing), "I desire to be effective. And in a public setting I restrain myself with guidelines for the edification of others who may be present." (v.19).

Paul was instructing on it's public use (and not it's use entirely), that's why when all was said and done, he stated, ". . . do not forbid to speak in tongues . . . let everything be done decently and in order." (v.39,40)


Be blessed, Stay blessed, and be Bold!

 

[Pard]

I think that in general 1 Corinthian 14 is taken in the wrong manner. It is often seen as Paul criticizing the use of tongues because using tongues is some how "selfish". This could not be further from the truth! He is merely speaking to the Corinthians and telling them that they are using too much tongue (he-he) and not enough prophesy. There must be a balance. With tongues you speak TO God and self-educate but with prophesy you speak FROM God and educate all. This is why speaking in tongues can come off as being "selfish" but it isn't it is a valuable gift but it shouldn't be seen as a gift above all others.

The passage in question is simply Paul's way of saying "Hey guys I know I'm down on you guys about speaking in tongues but it isn't because i dislike tongues! Heck I speak in tongues more than anyone. I know it's great but you need to have some balance in your life."

--

Been following this thread and I figured I'd just stay out but then I saw that all my Pentecostal brothers were posting and I just couldn't resist any longer!!! :D

 

[Bonairos]

"That tends to be my understanding too, that tongues tend to be human languages . . ."

If so, then what did Paul mean in vs. 14, 15.

If "tongues" are known languages, what did Paul mean when he said, "For if I pray in a tongue, my spirit prays, but my understanding is unfruitful." (v.14)

And if tongues are a known language, what could he mean when he says, "I will pray with the spirit, and I will also pray with understanding?" (v.15)

What could he not understand . . . if it is a known language (tongues) that he is praying in?



Be blessed, Stay blessed, and be Bold!

 

[Pard]

That tends to be my understanding too, that tongues tend to be human languages

1 Corinthians 14:2 ought to put that to rest...

"For anyone who speaks in a tongue does not speak to people but to God. Indeed, no one understands them; they utter mysteries by the Spirit."

 

[jasoncran]

:toofunny god has an aussie accent!

 

[Nick]

:toofunny god has an aussie accent!

Of course He does! It's the universal accent!

No kidding they use it on many GPS's for that reason.

 

[Nick]

If so, then what did Paul mean in vs. 14, 15.

If "tongues" are known languages, what did Paul mean when he said, "For if I pray in a tongue, my spirit prays, but my understanding is unfruitful." (v.14)

And if tongues are a known language, what could he mean when he says, "I will pray with the spirit, and I will also pray with understanding?" (v.15)

What could he not understand . . . if it is a known language (tongues) that he is praying in?



Be blessed, Stay blessed, and be Bold!

1 Corinthians 14:2 ought to put that to rest...

"For anyone who speaks in a tongue does not speak to people but to God. Indeed, no one understands them; they utter mysteries by the Spirit."

That's why I said "not limited to".

Thanks guys for helping to clear this up. This topic isn't often something I delve into.

 

[eddif]

Older thread.

I Corinthians 14:23-26
23 If therefore the whole church be come together into one place, and all speak with tongues, and there come in those that are unlearned, or unbelievers, will they not say that ye are mad?
24 But if all prophesy, and there come in one that believeth not, or one unlearned, he is convinced of all, he is judged of all:
25 And thus are the secrets of his heart made manifest; and so falling down on his face he will worship God, and report that God is in you of a truth.
26 How is it then, brethren? when ye come together, every one of you hath a psalm, hath a doctrine, hath a tongue, hath a revelation, hath an interpretation. Let all things be done unto edifying.

Church services appear to be run on audience need. Jesus met the woman and knew (spiritually not by conversation) that she had been married before and the one she was with now was not her husband. This met the womans need about the rivers of living water she needed. If Jesus had spoken in the Astec language I doubt that he would have ministered to her needs.

We are so into singing songs (but do we sing a song that will meet the strangers need)
We present a psalm (but do we present the Psalm that will meet a persons need)
Perhaps we have a revelation (but does the revelation meet the strangers need)

Now what if the stranger does not understand English? All your English: songs, psalms, revelations will be in tongues to the stranger.

Perhaps a person begins to speak in tongues, but misses the strangers language. He should just pray to God (in the language--- and pray for the meaning).

I think we all would accept;
A missed song topic that applies to the stranger
A missed doctrine being preached that missed the strangers need
A revelation the person got that week, but it not meet the strangers need
A pastor might use seminary terms for the usual congregation, but miss the strangers regular understanding need

Our job is to know like Jesus:
The woman with the issue of blood had touched him
The other woman had been married before

If we miss it we should just shut up.

We generally see the tongue talker missed his que, but miss the rest of those involved missed the needs of stranger in the congregation.

I have missed it before myself. On a few rare occasions I actually get on the right subject to fit the person present.

eddif

 

[eddif]

Ok, so I was reading 1 Corinthians 14 the other day. So I'm reading about tongues, and about how Paul wants them to all speak in tongues, but would rather then prophecy so they may build up each other etc etc. Fair enough.

But this is the part I don't get - after going on about that, in verse 18, Paul then says this: (ESV)

I thank God that I speak in tongues more than all of you.
​

To me, it seems a bit contradictory and a tad out of place in the context of the rest of the section.

Am I missing something here?

I left off.
I Corinthians 14: 28
28 But if there be no interpreter, let him keep silence in the church; and let him speak to himself, and to God.

Tongues evidently are languages that pray (speak) to God too. The stranger may not be bi-lingual and your normal prayer language may get you to the subject that meets the need. Your language might need an intrepreter to get the job done.

We pray with the spirit and the mind.

On a little side line. If you talk to a EE Major (engineer type) you might better know what inductance is all about.

If you talk to a sailor you might ought to talk about gravity and bouyancy. In regards to sin trying to sink your life being comparded to gravity. In regards to redemption in Christ Jesus you might use bouyancy as being the greater force that overcomes gravity. Languages might not just be what we usually think about.

If you find yourself led to talk to someone about the modulus of elasticity out of the clear blue-----It might be the need of the day (maybe not in the middle of a service, but then Paul had impact by talking to the ships captain on the boat).

eddif

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

I speak in tongues and I don't understand it.
But I find myself praising God continually as I speak in tongues.
There's something to it.

 

[BornAgain]

Ok, so I was reading 1 Corinthians 14 the other day. So I'm reading about tongues, and about how Paul wants them to all speak in tongues, but would rather then prophecy so they may build up each other etc etc. Fair enough.

But this is the part I don't get - after going on about that, in verse 18, Paul then says this: (ESV)

I thank God that I speak in tongues more than all of you. ​

To me, it seems a bit contradictory and a tad out of place in the context of the rest of the section.

Am I missing something here?

My understanding of this scripture is Paul as an apostle spoke more languages than all the Corinthians. His travels and labors among so many different people made this necessary, and it was with him a subject of thanksgiving that this power had been bestowed upon him.