1 Corinthians 14:18

[eddif]

Getting personal guys...

As a person with 20% of the posts in this thread I possibly am 40% of the problem LOL.

In an effort to promote peace I have started a blog thread to give folks a break.

I sign all my posts eddif, so a simple word search will get you there. Just ignore works fine too.

I really have enjoyed the time with all of you on this thread, but it may be better off without my pushing.

reba you really are a blessing to all of us.

Thanks

eddif

 

[Mitspa]

On the contrary, Matthew 6:7 rings more true than ever.



Yes, I remember every embarrassing syllable of it.

You see, he had a brother who was only about a year or two older than him. On that particular night, they were performing whole-body baptisms(clothes and all). The older brother went up there to be dunked by the preacher. Before he was submerged he said something like, "I know that I was baptized when I was a little boy, but I really didn't fully understand the true meaning of it. That's why I am getting re-baptized tonight." You could tell that he was very well-accepted by the youth and perhaps the adults of the congregation as well. His brother started spouting his gibberish later on in the service. The poor fella was most certainly trying to muster up some attention for himself, ever-shadowed by his brother's charisma.

I figured all this out in one church service. It was obvious.

These signs will follow them that believe!

The sciptures make your opinion have little value in a discussion of biblical truth.

For their will be mockers in these last days, who do not have the Spirit, if you see any you might what to warn them against blasphemy against the Holy Spirit.

Also how do you think one should be baptised? big toe and naked?

 

[Agape]

So Paul was praying vain repetitions? The Holy Spirit gives a gift that goes against the teachings of Jesus?

Paul said "I pray in vain repetitions more than you all" ???

No! 1 Cor 14:2 For he that speaketh in an tongue speaketh not unto men, but unto God: For NO MAN UNDERSTANDETH HIM, howbeit in the spirit he speaketh mysteries.

14:16 when thou bless with the spirit, how can the ignorant say Amen? and at thy giving of thanks, seeing he understandeth not what thou sayest?
14:17 FOR THOU VERILY GIVEST THANKS WELL, but the other is not edified.

So maybe you do not understand that this gift of THE HOLY SPIRIT OF GOD, IS NOT VAIN REPITITIONS, but in fact a great a mighty glorification of God!

Could it be that because some of you do not have this Gift, that you are willing to ignore all reason of scripture? LOVE is greater, but love does not ignore the clear and evident truth of the scriptures.

I am noticing that you haven't answered my question. Can you do it or not?
May I ask you to show me where Paul said that he prayed in an unknown tongue.

 

[Mitspa]

I am noticing that you haven't answered my question. Can you do it or not?
May I ask you to show me where Paul said that he prayed in an unknown tongue.

You will also notice that I stay in the truth of the scriptures.
If I do or do not have this gift? It does not matter for the gift is shown in the evidence of scripture.

"Paul said I pray in tongues more than you all"
He that speaketh in a tongue speaks not to men, but to God.
And no man understands him FOR IN THE SPIRIT HE SPEAKS MYSTERIES.

Paul goes on to say many things about this gift, (which I admit is hard to understand) but he says that he prays in his understanding and he prays in the spirit also.

So if one looks at these scriptures in context, it is clear that Paul is speaking in toungues apart from understanding.

Now you can call that what you want? I dont think the translators missed it by much when they called it "unknown"!

Some of you can believe all sorts of truth of scripture, a doney speaks to man? So why is this gift such a hang-up for some of you?

Its Gods gift, its clearly described in scripture! So who are some of you to Judge what God does? If He says one must spit in the dirt to heal the blind? Then I will do that!

If He says call those things that be not as though they were? I will start calling!

No it it is not written in vain that the foolishness of God is wiser than man, and that a man must become as a fool to be made wise.

The whole of the world thinks we are all very foolish for putting our faith and trust in an unseen God! Those of you who think this gift is foolish? Are just acting and thinking like the rest of the world. So you believe in some parts of the bible but not all of it? That is just foolishness to me! You may think what you like, I will live by every Word that comes forth from the Mouth of God.

 

[Agape]

"Paul said I pray in tongues more than you all"

Where? In 1 Corinthians 14:18?
I thank my God I speak with tongues more than you all;

Does that say that Paul prayed in tongues? I read "speak". You read "pray" but I read "speak". (text analysis http://biblos.com/1_corinthians/14-18.htm)

How about 1 Corinthians 14:14?
"For if I pray in a tongue, my spirit prays, but my understanding is unfruitful."

Why did Paul use plural when stating that he spoke in tongues but then singular (a tongue) when he said "if I pray"?
Could that be a bad translation? (text analysis http://biblos.com/1_corinthians/14-14.htm)

Let us see, Paul thanked God that he spoke in tongues but then made a negative statement on praying in "a tongue". Why?

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

Where? In 1 Corinthians 14:18?
I thank my God I speak with tongues more than you all;

Does that say that Paul prayed in tongues? I read "speak". You read "pray" but I read "speak". (text analysis http://biblos.com/1_corinthians/14-18.htm)

How about 1 Corinthians 14:14?
"For if I pray in a tongue, my spirit prays, but my understanding is unfruitful."

Why did Paul use plural when stating that he spoke in tongues but then singular (a tongue) when he said "if I pray"?
Could that be a bad translation? (text analysis http://biblos.com/1_corinthians/14-14.htm)

Let us see, Paul thanked God that he spoke in tongues but then made a negative statement on praying in "a tongue". Why?

There's nothing negative about it.
He says his spirit prays in an unknown tongue.
That's the whole point here.

 

[Mitspa]

Where? In 1 Corinthians 14:18?
I thank my God I speak with tongues more than you all;

Does that say that Paul prayed in tongues? I read "speak". You read "pray" but I read "speak". (text analysis http://biblos.com/1_corinthians/14-18.htm)

How about 1 Corinthians 14:14?
"For if I pray in a tongue, my spirit prays, but my understanding is unfruitful."

Why did Paul use plural when stating that he spoke in tongues but then singular (a tongue) when he said "if I pray"?
Could that be a bad translation? (text analysis http://biblos.com/1_corinthians/14-14.htm)

Let us see, Paul thanked God that he spoke in tongues but then made a negative statement on praying in "a tongue". Why?

I see no negative point about this gift! but only that Paul is making the point to use the gift for its purpose!

Which I believe all are in agreement that have posted on this thread.

When ones prays, that does require that they speak, does it not?

At least we have brought the discussion into the truth of scripture, for that I thank you! -Mitspa

 

[Agape]

There's nothing negative about it.
He says his spirit prays in an unknown tongue.
That's the whole point here.

"but my understanding is unfruitful". Paul was speaking hypothetically to the pointlessness of speaking a tongue he wouldn't understand. How can you praise God if you don't even know what you're saying? No one can say "Amen" (verse 16). No understanding, no Amen, no edification.

Let's keep reading :
15 What is the conclusion then? I will pray with the spirit, and I will also pray with the understanding. I will sing with the spirit, and I will also sing with the understanding. 16 Otherwise, if you bless with the spirit, how will he who occupies the place of the uninformed say “Amen†at your giving of thanks, since he does not understand what you say?

Then verse 17 reminds me that the purpose of "spiritual gifts" is to edify others (1 Corinthians 12:7; Ephesians 4 :12) not to edify ourselves!

17 For you indeed give thanks well, but the other is not edified.

 

[Mitspa]

"but my understanding is unfruitful". Paul was speaking hypothetically to the pointlessness of speaking a tongue he wouldn't understand. How can you praise God if you don't even know what you're saying? No one can say "Amen" (verse 16). No understanding, no Amen, no edification.

Let's keep reading :
15 What is the conclusion then? I will pray with the spirit, and I will also pray with the understanding. I will sing with the spirit, and I will also sing with the understanding. 16 Otherwise, if you bless with the spirit, how will he who occupies the place of the uninformed say “Amen” at your giving of thanks, since he does not understand what you say?

Then verse 17 reminds me that the purpose of "spiritual gifts" is to edify others (1 Corinthians 12:7; Ephesians 4 :12) not to edify ourselves!

17 For you indeed give thanks well, but the other is not edified.

What!
So the whole discussion of the Gift is "hypothetical"???

So when Paul Says he THANKS GOD that he speaks in tongues more than all, Thats "hypothetical" ?

When he says that he will pray in the spirit amd in his understanding also. Thats "hypothetical"

When he says FOBID NOT TO SPEAK WITH TONGUES. thats hypothetical?

I don't understand why some are so determined to speak against this GIFT OF THE HOLY SPIRIT.

 

[Agape]

Some are so determined to speak against this GIFT OF THE HOLY SPIRIT, that they are willing to make-up almost any doctrine!

TITUS 1:16 They profess to know God, but in action they deny Him.

Who are "some"?

 

[VirginShallConceive]

The sciptures make your opinion have little value in a discussion of biblical truth.

I agree with you that the scriptures make my opinion have little value in a discussion of biblical truth.

However, that is not the point. The preacher in this video could say the same to you. He could give you all the scripture he wants, but it doesn't mean that he is really causing these people to convulse or fall down by channeling the Holy Spirit.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VcMb1PbgZFk

I know, as much as I know anything, that he is a phony just like the others.

 

[Mitspa]

I agree with you that the scriptures make my opinion have little value in a discussion of biblical truth.

However, that is not the point. The preacher in this video could say the same to you. He could give you all the scripture he wants, but it doesn't mean that he is really causing these people to convulse or fall down by channeling the Holy Spirit.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VcMb1PbgZFk

I know, as much as I know anything, that he is a phony just like the others.

i do not need to watch a video, I have the Holy Spirit and the Word of God. Whether your video is a real move of the Spirit or just religious folks in the flesh, it does not matter at all! The Holy Spirit is the Holy Spirit with the same gifts given at Pentacost and is proven clearly in scripture.

If the The Gifts of The Holy Spirit seem strange to you or others? That is how it is supposed to be. So the fact that the foolishness of God seems strange to some, has no bearing on the truth.

 

[VirginShallConceive]

The Holy Spirit is the Holy Spirit with the same gifts given at Pentacost and is proven clearly in scripture.

Scripture does not prove any individual's claim of "speaking in tongues". Furthermore, the increased frequency of "speaking in tongues" in the 20th century, coupled with the United States of America being ground zero of the explosion, renders all of the claims highly suspect . . . and I'm being generous by using the term "highly suspect".

 

[Mitspa]

Scripture does not prove any individual's claim of "speaking in tongues". Furthermore, the increased frequency of "speaking in tongues" in the 20th century, coupled with the United States of America being ground zero of the explosion, renders all of the claims highly suspect . . . and I'm being generous by using the term "highly suspect".

Not sure why I should hold that your opinion of others has any bearing on the discussion of this Gift? I agree that if all would respect the scriptures that much of the confusion of the Gift would be taken care of. The fact that some do not hold to scripture allows for confusion of the Gift and even allows satan to bring in false spirits that deceive some people. But the answer is ALWAYS to hold to the truth of scripture, if one does have the Ggift they should act according to scripture and for the purpose of the Gift. If one does not have they should respect those who do., according to scripture.

 

[VirginShallConceive]

Not sure why I should hold that your opinion of others has any bearing on the discussion of this Gift?

If you truly hold this gift, my opinion shouldn't be able to sway your "reality".

I agree that if all would respect the scriptures that much of the confusion of the Gift would be taken care of.

There is no confusion. Many of us Christians respect the scriptures and simply don't believe the people who claim that they are speaking in tongues, the people who flip and flop on the ground, or the people that claim to physically heal the handicapped just by laying a hand on them.

The fact that some do not hold to scripture allows for confusion of the Gift and even allows satan to bring in false spirits that deceive some people. But the answer is ALWAYS to hold to the truth of scripture, if one does have the Ggift they should act according to scripture and for the purpose of the Gift. If one does not have they should respect those who do., according to scripture.

Let me get this straight. I am supposed to believe these people who claim to be physically moved by the Holy Spirit hinself, and it just so happens that the Holy Spirit is hanging out at their place of worship every single time and making His presence felt very strongly. Also, I have to accept that I am just one of a multitude of Christians who God chose to allow Satan to deceive and deny me my gift.

edited

 

[Mitspa]

If you truly hold this gift, my opinion shouldn't be able to sway your "reality".



There is no confusion. Many of us Christians respect the scriptures and simply don't believe the people who claim that they are speaking in tongues, the people who flip and flop on the ground, or the people that claim to physically heal the handicapped just by laying a hand on them.



Let me get this straight. I am supposed to believe these people who claim to be physically moved by the Holy Spirit hinself, and it just so happens that the Holy Spirit is hanging out at their place of worship every single time and making His presence felt very strongly. Also, I have to accept that I am just one of a multitude of Christians who God chose to allow Satan to deceive and deny me my gift. Yeah, right.

I don't have to respect liars.

The Word of God? The Holy Spirit?
For this is where I stand and do not care that some cannot believe the clear and evident truth of scipture, nor do they have the signs that are to follow a "believer"

 

[reba]

Some of the language that is being used in these forums is going to stop.

I could not stand before God/Jesus and tell Him this person is saved that one is not. That is His doing not ours.

We are to spread the gospel. Knowing the gospel is not worded the same to each of our understanding, but most Christians have guide lines.

Jesus said 'what ever you do to the least of these you have done it unto Me.' We need to start treating each other as Jesus would. That includes, giving a glass of water, to which words we use.

Words that say in one form or another 'believe as I do or your not saved' Will not be tolerated. Calling our brothers and sisters liars, in any form, as in false..that is not true etc.

It is not that difficult to say I disagree with that teaching here is why....


Would we really post all that we do (self included) if we could see with our natural eyes Jesus looking over our shoulders?

Lets see if we can discuss Scripture and our differences in a more Godly manor.

Php_4:8 Finally, brethren, whatsoever things are true, whatsoever things are honest, whatsoever things are just, whatsoever things are pure, whatsoever things are lovely, whatsoever things are of good report; if there be any virtue, and if there be any praise, think on these things.

 

[Davies]

The Word of God? The Holy Spirit?
For this is where I stand and do not care that some cannot believe the clear and evident truth of scipture, nor do they have the signs that are to follow a "believer"

Hi Mitspa,

I hope we would care. If I were to stop caring, I would be concerned. Makes me wonder about myself, do I care enough?

- Davies

 

[Mitspa]

,

Hi Mitspa,

I hope we would care. If I were to stop caring, I would be concerned. Makes me wonder about myself, do I care enough?

- Davies

As it relates to the TRUTH OF GOD, i do not yield to mans opinions. The scriptures are clear on this issue, I do not care to be moved from the truth of Gods Word and Holy Spirit.

You may call that whatever you like?

For it is a small thing if I be judged by mans judgement, for their is One who judges me, and He is well pleased.