1 Peter 1:23 is about eternal security

[Jim Parker]

NT:278 ametameletos (am-et-am-el'-ay-tos); from NT:1 (as a negative particle) and a presumed derivative of NT:3338; irrevocable:

(Biblesoft's New Exhaustive Strong's Numbers and Concordance with Expanded Greek-Hebrew Dictionary. Copyright © 1994, 2003, 2006 Biblesoft, Inc. and International Bible Translators, Inc.)

A "presumed derivative" ??
Do you know what the meaning of the words "presumed" and "derivative" mean?

So you cling to the straw at because the word is a "presumed derivative" of 3338 it must have the exact same meaning as 3338 IN SPITE of Thayer's SPECIFIC definition being, to the contrary; Thayer renders it "not repented, unregretted" with reference to the use of the word at Ro 11:29.
Let me see, whose linguistic skills should I trust? Yours or Thayer's? hmmmmm............

 

[Edward]

I think you guys are over-intellectualizing the word. The Word speaks of spiritual matters that must be spiritually discerned.

So...cut the dose? Lol...

 

[Jim Parker]

The Word speaks of spiritual matters that must be spiritually discerned.

So ignore all those words, eh?

The problem is that many people have fallen for the pop-theology that is based in "proof texting" and root words, and the like.Those are tools which hucksters use to confuse and fleece people.

 

[chessman]

many passages posted multiple times which clearly teach that eternal life is NOT irrevocable. John 15:2 telly you that, if you do not produce fruit, God the Father will cut you off from Jesus in whom alone you have eternal life

If John 15:2 actually telly God would cuty offy believers from eternal lify for not being fruity enoughy each yeary, you would havy a pointy. As it standsy, you have demonstrated an inability to recognize that the branches were already called cleaned because of the Word Jesus spoke to them.

John 15:3 (LEB) You are already clean because of the word that I have spoken to you. ​

Bearing fruit is not a requirement to gain nor maintain salvation. It demonstrates to people that you are a disciple of Jesus.

John 15:8 (LEB) My Father is glorified by this: that you bear much fruit, and prove to be my disciples.
​

It is a verbal diagram.

No it's not.

 

[smaller]

1 Peter 1:
23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.

I think you guys are over-intellectualizing the word. The Word speaks of spiritual matters that must be spiritually discerned.

So...cut the dose? Lol...

1 Thessalonians 4:9
But as touching brotherly love ye need not that I write unto you: for ye yourselves are taught of God to love one another.

I heard this has been re-translated into "we must dangle one another over the pits of possible eternal torture fire in hell" in order to be "in Truth."

Such love!

 

[JLB]

We receive salvation immediately upon faith, or at the conclusion of the act of believing. NOT, as insinuated, at the end of our lives.

If you have faith in Jesus Christ for salvation, then by default you have the hope of salvation.

Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen. Hebrews 11:1

That is why a person must continue in the faith [holding fast], and not be moved away from the hope of the Gospel [Salvation] in order to receive the salvation they are hoping for.

21 And you, who once were alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now He has reconciled 22 in the body of His flesh through death, to present you holy, and blameless, and above reproach in His sight— 23 if indeed you continue in the faith, grounded and steadfast, and are not moved away from the hope of the gospel which you heard, which was preached to every creature under heaven, of which I, Paul, became a minister. Colossians 1:21-23

You have exposed why you argue against the scriptures, and cling to the false doctrine of OSAS.

You simple don't understand what faith is.

If you have faith for something, then of course you don't have the reality of that something, but rather, you have the hope of having that something.


That's why Paul says we are waiting for it with perseverance.

24 For we were saved in this hope, but hope that is seen is not hope; for why does one still hope for what he sees? 25 But if we hope for what we do not see, we eagerly wait for it with perseverance. Romans 8:24-25

Here Paul is using the language of faith... for why does one still hope for what he sees?

Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen. Hebrews 11:1

What is it Paul says we are waiting for with perseverance?

The same thing Peter says we will receive receive and the end of our faith... the salvation of our souls.

6 In this you greatly rejoice, though now for a little while, if need be, you have been grieved by various trials, 7 that the genuineness of your faith,being much more precious than gold that perishes, though it is tested by fire, may be found to praise, honor, and glory at the revelation of Jesus Christ, 8 whom having not seen you love. Though now you do not see Him, yet believing, you rejoice with joy inexpressible and full of glory,9 receiving the end of your faith—the salvation of your souls. 1 Peter 1:6-9


Paul uses the language of faith, again in writing to the Hebrews, exhorting them to continue to the end, and not depart from Him.

12 Beware, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief in departing from the living God; 13 but exhort one another daily, while it is called “Today,” lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin. 14 For we have become partakers of Christ if we hold the beginning of our confidence steadfast to the end, Hebrews 3:12-14

Here the language of faith is used...

For we have become partakers of Christ if we hold the beginning of our confidence steadfast to the end,


Confidence is the same Greek word as "substance" in Hebrews 11:1


To be a partaker of Christ is to "have Christ", who is our salvation.

He who has the Son has life; he who does not have the Son of God does not have life. 1 John 5:12


We "have become" partakers of Christ IF... if we hold the beginning of our confidence [the substance of our faith] steadfast to the end.

The "if" conditional clause pretty well puts an end to unconditional security.




JLB

 

[chessman]

The problem is that many people have fallen for the pop-theology that is based in "proof texting" and root words, and the like.Those are tools which hucksters use to confuse and fleece people.

The root form of the Greek word rendered "rewarded" is ἀποδίδωμι (apodidōmi ). It means; to pay off, discharge what is due.

 

[chessman]

If you have faith for something, then of course you don't have the reality of that something,

Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen. Hebrews 11:1

Faith is the substance of things. Faith is the evidence of things.
Of course you have the substance and the evidence of salvation if you have faith. Sure it's of things not yet seen. But faith, never the less, is substantial.

I think it's anti-OSAS that doesn't understand Biblical faith.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

the Text doesn't say God has rejected Israel.

It says it as plain as day:

"15For if their rejection is the reconciliation of the world, what will their acceptance be but life from the dead?" (Romans 11:1 NASB)

A simple read shows that the 'if' is not in regard to whether or not God has rejected Israel. The 'if' is in regard to their rejection being the reconciliation of the world, which he is saying it has been, which in comparison makes the Israelites future acceptance (vs.26-27) all the greater.

Given the vein of discussion that even you are deriving from the passage, it's quite obvious that the chapter has NOTHING to do with a former believer still having eternal life/ salvation. But it has EVERYTHING to do with God not revoking the promises he made to the Patriarchs for their offspring, the Israelites.

 

[chessman]

It says it as plain as day:

No it doesn't.
If your view of the verse was correct it would read:
'For if since their rejection is the reconciliation of the world, what will their acceptance be but life from the dead?'

Plus, Paul would have never said what he did in v1:

Romans 11:1 (LEB) Therefore I say, God has not rejected his people, has he? May it never be!
​

Simple. You contradict what Paul just got through saying.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Where did he actually speak about losing eternal life?

Exactly!

There's nothing in the passage to support your argument that he is saying that once a believer gets eternal life he can never ever under any circumstances lose that eternal life/ salvation. But a simple read shows without question that what Paul is talking about is the promises made to Israel will never be revoked but will be fulfilled, despite the fact that the nation of Israel as a whole has been rejected by God because of their disobedience.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

No it doesn't.
If your view of the verse was correct it would read:
'For if since their rejection is the reconciliation of the world, what will their acceptance be but life from the dead?'

Plus, Paul would have never said what he did in v1:

Romans 11:1 (LEB) Therefore I say, God has not rejected his people, has he? May it never be!
​

Simple. You contradict what Paul just got through saying.

It's so simple. All one has to do is read it. God has not rejected his people forever. The day is coming when they will be grafted back in and no longer rejected (as they are now):

"a partial hardening has happened to Israel until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in;

26and so all Israel will be saved; just as it is written,
“THE DELIVERER WILL COME FROM ZION,
HE WILL REMOVE UNGODLINESS FROM JACOB.”

27“THIS IS MY COVENANT WITH THEM,
WHEN I TAKE AWAY THEIR SINS.” (Romans 11:25-27 NASB)

Their rejection will not last forever. He has not revoked the promises he made to the Patriarchs for them. There is no context in the passage to support the OSAS argument that once a person believes they can never ever lose their eternal life. It's simply isn't there. But even you, by engaging the discussion as you have, show that you know the passage is about the promises made to Israel not having the promises made to them revoked. Yet you insist on arguing that the passage is about a saved person never being able to lose his eternal life/ salvation.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

If your view of the verse was correct it would read:
'For if since their rejection is the reconciliation of the world, what will their acceptance be but life from the dead?'

This is funny.
Don't you recognize this is the very same usage of 'if' as in 1 Corinthians 15:2 NASB? The Corinthians are indeed holding fast the word. The 'if' is being used in regard to the factuality of what is being stated.

It's like this:

If .NET Framework 4.0 was great, think how much greater .NET Framework 4.5 is!

The 'if' does not mean that 4.0 was not great. Quite the opposite. And since it is great, then 4.5 is going to be all the more great. (And of course .NET Core is greater yet).

 

[Jethro Bodine]

I said this:
"The loss of salvation view is totally illogical since there are no verses that even make that claim."

What I said stands. There are no verses to that claim salvation or eternal life can be lost.

I think it amazing that you have the courage to change the prophecy of Revelation despite the warning to those who do so.

 

[chessman]

It's so simple

It's so simple to see that you're directly contradicting what Paul said.

Romans 11:1 (LEB) Therefore I say, God has not rejected his people, has he? May it never be! ​

God has not rejected His people. Never! Not now, not then, not later. Never!

He has not revoked the promises he made to the Patriarchs for them.

Of course He has not revoked ANY promises. All of God's promises are true. To the fathers, the circumcision, to Paul, to the Gentiles, to the disciples, to the disciples' disciples, to you and to me.

Romans 15:8-9 (LEB) For I say, Christ has become a servant of the circumcision on behalf of the truth of God, in order to confirm the promises to the fathers, and that the Gentiles may glorify God for his mercy, just as it is written, “Because of this, I will praise you among the Gentiles, and I will sing praise to your name.” ​

Might as well just say all His promises are true:

2 Corinthians 1:20 (LEB) For as many as are the promises of God, in him they are “yes”; therefore also through him is the “amen” to the glory of God through us. ​

There is no context in the passage to support the OSAS argument that once a person believes they can never ever lose their eternal life.

Since God has promised believers eternal life, it is true. Simple, really.

 

[chessman]

Don't you recognize this is the very same usage of 'if' as in 1 Corinthians 15:2 NASB? The Corinthians are indeed holding fast the word. The 'if' is being used in regard to the factuality of what is being stated.

I know. I pointed that out to you numerous times. Paul knew they were still holding fast IF their believing (past tense) was not in vain. He said so.

 

[chessman]

you insist on arguing that the passage is about a saved person never being able to lose his eternal life/ salvation.

The passage and the whole letter is clearly about ALL the gifts of God and ALL the callings of God being irrevocable. Every last one of them. Including the gift of Eternal Life.

It's up to you to prove God has revoked even just one of His gifts. You've not done that other than your clearly contradictory assertion to what Paul said in Romans 11:1.

 

[JLB]

Once you're "born again", then you will be taught by God through His Holy Spirit that death of the flesh, the second death will not harm you because the visible flesh was the perishable seed that is destroyed by the Fire of God on the day of the Lord.

The death of the flesh is the first death.


The second death is being cast into the lake of fire, in which the spirit and soul will burn forever, being tormented day and night with no rest.

8 But the cowardly, unbelieving, abominable, murderers, sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death.” Revelation 21:8

and again

9 Then a third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, “If anyone worships the beast and his image, and receives his mark on his forehead or on his hand, 10 he himself shall also drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out full strength into the cup of His indignation. He shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels and in the presence of the Lamb. 11 And the smoke of their torment ascends forever and ever; and they have no rest day or night, who worship the beast and his image, and whoever receives the mark of his name.”

12 Here is the patience of the saints; here are those who keep the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus. Revelation 14:9-12


JLB

 

[FreeGrace]

You have not presented logic.
You have merely lifted words out of context and tried to make them fit where they do not.
You have taken the word gift when it was used to refer specifically to the calling of Israel and attempted to give it a general meaning which applies to all gifts.
You have attempted to make dissimilar meanings equivalent.
You have also dismissed out of hand every passage of scripture which teaches that salvation can indeed be lost.

There is absolutely nothing logical about your position.
It is unscriptural.
It is heretical.
It is your darling.

Post #56 totally defeats your opinion about logic.

 

[FreeGrace]

You have also refused to acknowledge or been unable to understand the many passages posted multiple times which clearly teach that eternal life is NOT irrevocable.

To "clearly teach" something, it must be stated CLEARLY.

So, what verse SAYS that eternal life can be lost, or taken away, or forfeited, or revoked?

And post #56 CLEARLY proves that eternal life is irrevocable.