1 Peter 1:23 is about eternal security

[Jethro Bodine]

Those verses do not say anything about God rejecting His people or revoking His gifts.

Matthew 18:6-9 NASB
Revelation 22:19 NASB
Those passages do in fact show that believers can lose eternal life and go to hell instead. They are irrefutable.

Now, in regard to the rejection of Israel:
Simple logic shows us that since the world has indeed been reconciled, the rejection of Israel--the 'if'--must be a fact:
15For if their rejection is the reconciliation of the world..." (Romans 11:15 NASB)
Now don't suddenly not understand how logic works. Even you can't deny what I'm saying. According to the above 'if' statement, the reconciliation of the world is conditioned on the rejection (of Israel). And since the reconciliation of the world has indeed occurred, we know without a doubt the rejection of Israel had to have occurred. It's impossible to argue the point.

The 'Israel not being rejected' that Paul talks about in the passage is the fact that God has not rejected them so as to revoke his promises to later generations of Israelites who have faith. They have been rejected for rejecting God, but they have not been rejected in regard to the elect remnant having faith and as a result having the promises applied to them. All they have to do is have faith, and 'walla', they have the promises applied to them. The opportunity to still have the gifts and calling of God applied to them was never revoked even though the nation itself as a whole is in a present state of rejection by God.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Where is the teaching of loss of eternal life? In fact, the passage doesn't even mention eternal life. It does speak of eternal fire. And there is NOTHING about losing eternal life.

Read it.
God wants believers to get rid of those who cause stumbling so believers won't go to the fiery hell. How is going to the fiery hell still having Christ's eternal life?

"6but whoever causes one of these little ones who believe in Me to stumble, it would be better for him to have a heavy millstone hung around his neck, and to be drowned in the depth of the sea.

8“If your hand or your foot causes you to stumble, cut it off and throw it from you; it is better for you to enter life crippled or lame, than to have two hands or two feet and be cast into the eternal fire. 9“If your eye causes you to stumble, pluck it out and throw it from you. It is better for you to enter life with one eye, than to have two eyes and be cast into the fiery hell." (Matthew 18:6,8-9 NASB)

It's irrefutable. It's right there in plain words.

 

[smaller]

Apparently you don't remember: I challenged you and others to show how the fact that they were in fact presently believing, as indicated by the use of the 'if', somehow removes present believing as a condition for salvation for those who have stopped presently believing. No one could answer:

If you, Jim Parker and JLB spent 1/2 the time "judging" the quite factual indwelling sin and evil present in your own flesh, you'd spend a lot less time figuring out how to potentially condemn other believers to eternal hell. You might even give it up. Romans 7:17-21 isn't going away from any of us til our flesh is gone. As long as it's still breathing, standing, walking and talking however, Romans 7:17-21 is our reality.

There's no sense kidding ourselves that it ain't.

 

[chessman]

Now don't suddenly not understand how logic works. Even you can't deny what I'm saying.

Simple logic shows us that since the world has indeed been reconciled, the rejection of Israel--the 'if'--must be a fact:

It's not me, it's Paul that refutes your claim.

Romans 11:1-2 (LEB) Therefore I say, God has not rejected his people, has he? May it never be! For I also am an Israelite, from the descendants of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin. God has not rejected his people, whom he foreknew! Or do you not know, in the passage about Elijah, what the scripture says—how he appeals to God against Israel?
​

He even repeats it twice for those readers that need it.

All they have to do is have faith, and 'walla', they have the promises applied to them.

That is correct. The irrevocable promises! Just as it always has been the case and always will be the case. God does not reject His people. Never. None of them, Jew or Gentile.

The opportunity to still have the gifts and calling of God applied to them was never revoked even though the nation itself as a whole is in a present state of rejection by God.

No they're not. Paul and the rest of the apostles were in the nation and God did not reject them. Every single person in the nation of Israel and every other nation has the same access and the same promise of eternal life as Paul did. That's his point.

 

[Jim Parker]

If John 15:2 actually telly God would cuty offy believers from eternal lify for not being fruity enoughy each yeary, you would havy a pointy. As it standsy, you have demonstrated an inability to recognize that the branches were already called cleaned because of the Word Jesus spoke to them.

sigh
Me----->

 

[Jim Parker]

Is that your opinion of the Greek scholars who translated the NASB?

Do you even read what I post?
Did I in any way suggest that any Bible translators employ "proof-texting" as a tool?
No wonder I can't get through to you!
Me ----->

 

[FreeGrace]

Matthew 18:6-9 NASB
Revelation 22:19 NASB
Those passages do in fact show that believers can lose eternal life and go to hell instead. They are irrefutable.

They don't even mention loss of eternal life.

Major premise: The gifts of God are irrevocable.
Minor premise: Eternal life is a gift of God.
Conclusion: Eternal life is irrevocable.

Now, that's what is irrefutable.

 

[FreeGrace]

I said this:
"Where is the teaching of loss of eternal life? In fact, the passage doesn't even mention eternal life. It does speak of eternal fire. And there is NOTHING about losing eternal life."

Read it.

I did. Now, it's your turn. Read it. And realize that there is no mention of loss of eternal life.

God wants believers to get rid of those who cause stumbling so believers won't go to the fiery hell. How is going to the fiery hell still having Christ's eternal life?

Where does it say that "God wants..."? Sheer assumption.

If these verses teach self mutilation and dismemberment is how one avoids hell, that is one heck of a theology. But clearly not biblical.

"6but whoever causes one of these little ones who believe in Me to stumble, it would be better for him to have a heavy millstone hung around his neck, and to be drowned in the depth of the sea.

8“If your hand or your foot causes you to stumble, cut it off and throw it from you; it is better for you to enter life crippled or lame, than to have two hands or two feet and be cast into the eternal fire. 9“If your eye causes you to stumble, pluck it out and throw it from you. It is better for you to enter life with one eye, than to have two eyes and be cast into the fiery hell." (Matthew 18:6,8-9 NASB)

It's irrefutable. It's right there in plain words.

I believe we all see the plain words. And if taken literally, then we all must practice self mutilation and dismemberment in order to avoid hell.

What is really irrefutable is how way out in left field such a theology is.

How many of your own hands, feet and eyes are still intact?

 

[FreeGrace]

I said this:
"Is that your opinion of the Greek scholars who translated the NASB?"

Do you even read what I post?

Of course. Which is what prompted my reply.

Did I in any way suggest that any Bible translators employ "proof-texting" as a tool?

What was clear from your post is that though Greek scholars have translated the Greek word 'irrevocable', you seem to think that isn't an adequate word. That anyone who wants to use 'irrevocable' is only "proof-texting". Is that what the Greek scholars did?

Gimme a break.

 

[Jim Parker]

What was clear from your post

What is clear is that you read into every post what you want to see.
I suggested nothing of the kind.

 

[JLB]

Where is the teaching of loss of eternal life? In fact, the passage doesn't even mention eternal life. It does speak of eternal fire. And there is NOTHING about losing eternal life.

Ok, then by that same rule of interpretation, we will address your scriptures.

For the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable. Romans 11:29

• No mention of eternal life here.
• No mention of salvation here.

JLB

 

[JLB]

Yes, I HAVE (in the PRESENT TENSE) eternal life. Because SAID SO. In John 5:24. Because of what Jesus SAID, it should be obvious what Paul was referring to, which cannot be salvation it self, otherwise Paul and Jesus would be in disagreement. But that seems to be the foundation of your theology, so I'm not that surprised.

Paul sure teaches that our hope of the Gospel is salvation.

For we were saved in this hope, but hope that is seen is not hope; for why does one still hope for what he sees? Romans 8:24

The object of the hope is : Salvation

...for why does one still hope for what he sees? The object of hope is still salvation in this sentence, as it hasn't changed to something else.


If you are hoping for something, do you actually have what your hoping for? The answer is plainly NO.

For we were saved in this hope, but hope that is seen is not hope; for why does one still hope for what he sees? Romans 8:24


We have salvation by faith. WE will continue to have salvation by faith throughout this life, if we continue in the faith.

For now, we don't yet see the salvation we are hoping for, so we wait for it with perseverance.

25 But if we hope for what we do not see, we eagerly wait for it with perseverance. Romans 8:25

That's why Paul urges and teaches throughout the new testament to endure in the faith; to remain steadfast in the faith... To not depart from the living God, and not be moved away from the hope of the Gospel... to continue to believe in spite of persecution.


To not depart from the faith, by giving heed to seducing spirits and doctrines of demons [ie: faith in food and things God created]


4 But when the kindness and the love of God our Savior toward man appeared, 5 not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to His mercy He saved us, through the washing of regeneration and renewing of the Holy Spirit, 6 whom He poured out on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Savior, 7 that having been justified by His grace we should become heirs according to the hope of eternal life.

8 This is a faithful saying, and these things I want you to affirm constantly, that those who have believed in God should be careful to maintain good works. These things are good and profitable to men. Titus 3:4-8


...that having been justified by His grace we should become heirs according to the hope of eternal life.


JLB

 

[Sinthesis]

This parable suggests that the gift of eternal security can be forfeited by wicked believers.

Mat 18:23 - Therefore is the kingdom of heaven likened unto a certain king, which would take account of his servants.
Mat 18:24 - And when he had begun to reckon, one was brought unto him, which owed him ten thousand talents.
Mat 18:25 - But forasmuch as he had not to pay, his lord commanded him to be sold, and his wife, and children, and all that he had, and payment to be made.
Mat 18:26 - The servant therefore fell down, and worshipped him, saying, Lord, have patience with me, and I will pay thee all.
Mat 18:27 - Then the lord of that servant was moved with compassion, and loosed him, and forgave him the debt.
Mat 18:28 - But the same servant went out, and found one of his fellowservants, which owed him an hundred pence: and he laid hands on him, and took him by the throat, saying, Pay me that thou owest.
Mat 18:29 - And his fellowservant fell down at his feet, and besought him, saying, Have patience with me, and I will pay thee all.
Mat 18:30 - And he would not: but went and cast him into prison, till he should pay the debt.
Mat 18:31 - So when his fellowservants saw what was done, they were very sorry, and came and told unto their lord all that was done.
Mat 18:32 - Then his lord, after that he had called him, said unto him, O thou wicked servant, I forgave thee all that debt, because thou desiredst me:
Mat 18:33 - Shouldest not thou also have had compassion on thy fellowservant, even as I had pity on thee?
Mat 18:34 - And his lord was wroth, and delivered him to the tormentors, till he should pay all that was due unto him.
Mat 18:35 - So likewise shall my heavenly Father do also unto you, if ye from your hearts forgive not every one his brother their trespasses.​

 

[JLB]

This parable suggests that the gift of eternal security can be forfeited by wicked believers.

Mat 18:23 - Therefore is the kingdom of heaven likened unto a certain king, which would take account of his servants.
Mat 18:24 - And when he had begun to reckon, one was brought unto him, which owed him ten thousand talents.
Mat 18:25 - But forasmuch as he had not to pay, his lord commanded him to be sold, and his wife, and children, and all that he had, and payment to be made.
Mat 18:26 - The servant therefore fell down, and worshipped him, saying, Lord, have patience with me, and I will pay thee all.
Mat 18:27 - Then the lord of that servant was moved with compassion, and loosed him, and forgave him the debt.
Mat 18:28 - But the same servant went out, and found one of his fellowservants, which owed him an hundred pence: and he laid hands on him, and took him by the throat, saying, Pay me that thou owest.
Mat 18:29 - And his fellowservant fell down at his feet, and besought him, saying, Have patience with me, and I will pay thee all.
Mat 18:30 - And he would not: but went and cast him into prison, till he should pay the debt.
Mat 18:31 - So when his fellowservants saw what was done, they were very sorry, and came and told unto their lord all that was done.
Mat 18:32 - Then his lord, after that he had called him, said unto him, O thou wicked servant, I forgave thee all that debt, because thou desiredst me:
Mat 18:33 - Shouldest not thou also have had compassion on thy fellowservant, even as I had pity on thee?
Mat 18:34 - And his lord was wroth, and delivered him to the tormentors, till he should pay all that was due unto him.
Mat 18:35 - So likewise shall my heavenly Father do also unto you, if ye from your hearts forgive not every one his brother their trespasses.​

 

[FreeGrace]

I said this:
"What was clear from your post"

What is clear is that you read into every post what you want to see.
I suggested nothing of the kind.

Then maybe review posts before posting them. Read them aloud as if someone was reading them who can't read your mind.

Your claim that I read into every post what I want to see is correct. I WANT TO SEE what your opinions and arguments ARE.

So when I come to a conclusion from any of your posts, it's because of what I SAW IN THEM.

 

[FreeGrace]

Ok, then by that same rule of interpretation, we will address your scriptures.

For the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable. Romans 11:29

• No mention of eternal life here.
• No mention of salvation here.JLB

Interesting how the OTHER verse that is connected to 11:29 was not included. But that's how to twist and dodge the issue.

Major premise: the gifts of God are irrevocable.
Minor premise: eternal life is a gift of God.
Conclusion: eternal life is irrevocable.

Now, since you disagree with this conclusion, your mission, should you accept it, is to prove either the major premise or the minor premise is WRONG. Proving either of these will void my conclusion.

However, the major premise comes from Rom 11:29 and the minor premise comes from Rom 6:23.

 

[JLB]

Interesting how the OTHER verse that is connected to 11:29 was not included.

For the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable. Romans 11:29

• No mention of eternal life here.
• No mention of salvation here.

Interesting how the OTHER verse that is connected to 11:29 was not included. But that's how to twist and dodge the issue.

Major premise: the gifts of God are irrevocable.
Minor premise: eternal life is a gift of God.
Conclusion: eternal life is irrevocable.

Now, since you disagree with this conclusion, your mission, should you accept it, is to prove either the major premise or the minor premise is WRONG. Proving either of these will void my conclusion.

However, the major premise comes from Rom 11:29 and the minor premise comes from Rom 6:23.

No mention of major premise here.

For the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable. Romans 11:29

• No mention of eternal life here.
• No mention of salvation here.

For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord. Romans 6:23


No mention of minor premise here.


For those who choose to live as a slave to sin, the wages is death.

For those who lives as slaves of God and His righteousness, the gift of God is eternal life, to those who are found to be "in Christ Jesus our Lord".

19 I speak in human terms because of the weakness of your flesh. For just as you presented your members as slaves of uncleanness, and of lawlessness leading to more lawlessness, so now present your members as slaves of righteousness for holiness.

20 For when you were slaves of sin, you were free in regard to righteousness. 21 What fruit did you have then in the things of which you are now ashamed? For the end of those things is death. 22 But now having been set free from sin, and having become slaves of God, you have your fruit to holiness, and the end, everlasting life. 23 For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord. Romans 6:20-23


JLB

 

[FreeGrace]

Paul sure teaches that our hope of the Gospel is salvation.

For we were saved in this hope, but hope that is seen is not hope; for why does one still hope for what he sees? Romans 8:24

The object of the hope is : Salvation

No, I already explained the passage. The "hope" in v.24 refers back to eternity, not our salvation.

...for why does one still hope for what he sees?

Since we are not yet in eternity, we still hope (have a confident expectation of it) for it. Except those who don't believe in eternal security. How can any of that ilk have a confident expectation of living with God in eternity believing that they may someday do something and lose their salvation? Please explain how you personally have a confident expectation of eternity with God.

The object of hope is still salvation in this sentence, as it hasn't changed to something else.

I believe your basic English grammar skills need a lot of remedial work.

If you are hoping for something, do you actually have what your hoping for? The answer is plainly NO.

That is correct. I do not yet have my resurrection body, nor am I living in eternity. But I have a confident expectation of having both.

For we were saved in this hope, but hope that is seen is not hope; for why does one still hope for what he sees? Romans 8:24

The context clears up what the "hope" refers to.
Rom 8:18-25
18 I consider that our present sufferings are not worth comparing with the glory that will be revealed in us.
19 The creation waits in eager expectation for the sons of God to be revealed.
20 For the creation was subjected to frustration, not by its own choice, but by the will of the one who subjected it, in hope
21 that the creation itself will be liberated from its bondage to decay and brought into the glorious freedom of the children of God.
22 We know that the whole creation has been groaning as in the pains of childbirth right up to the present time.
23 Not only so, but we ourselves, who have the firstfruits of the Spirit, groan inwardly as we wait eagerly for our adoption as sons, the redemption of our bodies.
24 For in this hope we were saved. But hope that is seen is no hope at all. Who hopes for what he already has?
25 But if we hope for what we do not yet have, we wait for it patiently. NIV

v.18,19,21,23 are referring to the future; eternity when these things will be revealed.
v.24 says "For in this hope we were saved". What hope? The hope of the future time in eternity when "the glory that will be revealed" (v.18), "the sons of God will be revealed" (v.19), when "creation will be liberated from bondage to decay and brought into glorious freedom", (v.19), and when believers have "our adoption as sons, the redemption of our bodies" (v.23).

That's the "hope" that we are saved FOR.

All you've done is screw up the passage.

We have salvation by faith.

Jesus said we HAVE eternal life WHEN we believe. Not after.

WE will continue to have salvation by faith throughout this life, if we continue in the faith.

This opinion has not been shown from Scripture. What has been shown is only sheer assumption.

For now, we don't yet see the salvation we are hoping for, so we wait for it with perseverance.

No, we have salvation now. We are saved NOW. What we are hoping for is what the context mentions and I reviewed.

25 But if we hope for what we do not see, we eagerly wait for it with perseverance. Romans 8:25

Do you see eternity now? Are you experiencing eternity now? Of course not. And, how can those who espouse loss of salvation have any hope for eternity, thinking that your salvation can be lost?

That's why Paul urges and teaches throughout the new testament to endure in the faith; to remain steadfast in the faith... To not depart from the living God, and not be moved away from the hope of the Gospel... to continue to believe in spite of persecution.

This is quite incorrect. Paul taught perseverance for reward.
2 Cor 5:10
For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, that each one may receive what is due him for the things done while in the body, whether good or bad. NIV

 

[FreeGrace]

This parable suggests that the gift of eternal security can be forfeited by wicked believers.

Some believers are WAY TOO suggestible, even when the verses and passages don't make such suggestions.

Mat 18:23 - Therefore is the kingdom of heaven likened unto a certain king, which would take account of his servants.
Mat 18:24 - And when he had begun to reckon, one was brought unto him, which owed him ten thousand talents.
Mat 18:25 - But forasmuch as he had not to pay, his lord commanded him to be sold, and his wife, and children, and all that he had, and payment to be made.
Mat 18:26 - The servant therefore fell down, and worshipped him, saying, Lord, have patience with me, and I will pay thee all.
Mat 18:27 - Then the lord of that servant was moved with compassion, and loosed him, and forgave him the debt.
Mat 18:28 - But the same servant went out, and found one of his fellowservants, which owed him an hundred pence: and he laid hands on him, and took him by the throat, saying, Pay me that thou owest.
Mat 18:29 - And his fellowservant fell down at his feet, and besought him, saying, Have patience with me, and I will pay thee all.
Mat 18:30 - And he would not: but went and cast him into prison, till he should pay the debt.
Mat 18:31 - So when his fellowservants saw what was done, they were very sorry, and came and told unto their lord all that was done.
Mat 18:32 - Then his lord, after that he had called him, said unto him, O thou wicked servant, I forgave thee all that debt, because thou desiredst me:
Mat 18:33 - Shouldest not thou also have had compassion on thy fellowservant, even as I had pity on thee?
Mat 18:34 - And his lord was wroth, and delivered him to the tormentors, till he should pay all that was due unto him.
Mat 18:35 - So likewise shall my heavenly Father do also unto you, if ye from your hearts forgive not every one his brother their trespasses.​

​

Why think there are verses that "suggest" loss of salvation when there are clear and straightforward verses that teach eternal security??

Major premise: the gifts of God are irrevocable. Rom 11:29
Minor premise: eternal life is a gift of God. Rom 6:23
Conclusion: eternal life is irrevocable.

If my conclusion is wrong, one must prove that either the major or minor premise is false.

Be my guest.

 

[chessman]

To not depart from the faith, by giving heed to seducing spirits and doctrines of demons [ie: faith in food and things God created]

In 1 Tim 4, Paul teaches

1 Timothy 4:5 (LEB) for it [everything created by God] is made holy by the word of God and prayer.​

Two examples of things Paul specifically lists as things God created for sharing are; 1) marraige and 2) food. If Godly marriages and/or food and/or everything God created are made holy by the word of God, I believe Him.

1 Timothy 4:2 (LEB) by the hypocrisy of liars, who are seared in their own conscience, ​

Paul says it is liars, seared in their own conscience, that have specifically been led by demonic spirits in these last days that claim things made Holy by the word of God are no longer Holy.

John 6:63-64 (LEB) The Spirit is the one who gives life; the flesh profits nothing. The words that I have spoken to you are spirit and are life. But there are some of you who do not believe.” For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were who did not believe, and who it was who would betray him.​

The flesh profits nothing. Jesus knows who relies on their own flesh to make themselves 'holy' who actually betrays Him that actually does make creatures Holy via His word.

John 15:3 (LEB You are already clean because of the word that I have spoken to you. ​